# (white Supremacist) Scum Murdered My Neighbors **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [March 2, 2005, 9:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573 "2005-03-02T09:04:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 12\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/61 "2005-03-10T20:59:50Z")
But how is that a motive for murder? Obviously, killing these folks was a way of getting backat the judge for her decisions–but it doesn’t make any sense, really. I know the surface “reasons” for the killings–I would like to know a bit more. Many, many people lose everything and climb out of the abyss. Others lose it all and take their own lives. What made this guy kill two innocent people and then kill himself? Mental illness? Probably–but I wanted to know more. The killer being dead precludes that. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 9:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/62 "2005-03-10T21:55:15Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > But how is that a motive for murder? Obviously, killing these folks was a way of getting backat the judge for her decisions–but it doesn’t make any sense, really. As opposed to all the other ‘sensible’ motives for murder? ---
**Author:** ![Duke\_of\_Rat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Duke\_of\_Rat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duke_of_Rat)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 9:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/63 "2005-03-10T21:57:19Z")
> [@eleanorigby](#): > > I get the point you are trying to make, but I think you are missing the point of this thread. Noone wants to go lynch Hale (well, maybe they do, but noone is planning on that). IMO, all the talk about Hell and gasoline etc was just a way for people to vent their outrage at this horrible crime. Nothing more, nothing less. It seems like there might have been a wee bit more outrage since it was originally “assumed” that the “killers” were White Supremacists. People get murdered every day by people other than White Supremacists and I don’t see a pit thread for every one of _those_ murders. And the victims were white (yeah, I know, a judge who ruled against a WS was supposedly the intended target, so the killings were not directly race related). What if had been some homeless guy who had broken in and done the killing?? “Homeless SCUM Murdered my Neighbors!” Douse those homeless bastards in gasoline and set them ablaze! I seriously doubt that. And I admit my analogy isn’t perfect, homeless people aren’t a hate group, blah blah. But one the other hand, we got those “hate speech” laws passed for a reason. It’s OK to hate White Supremacists. And after all the, dare I say “hate”, it turns out it might have just been a disgruntled guy (is he white?) who killed his lawyer. And we went to all that trouble to get the lynch noose set up \* just right \*. ---
**Author:** ![Muffin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/muffin/32/4341_2.png) [@Muffin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Muffin)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/64 "2005-03-10T22:02:27Z")
Imagine how it must feel to have a job where more than one shitstain at a time is out to execute you or your family. The poor woman. So very courageous. My heart goes out to her for her loss. ---
**Author:** ![Moirai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/96bed5/32.png) [@Moirai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moirai)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/65 "2005-03-10T22:28:21Z")
I think the dead guy sounds like a patsy. We shall see. Matthew Hale is owed no apology whatsoever. He has chosen a particular path for his life, and any fallout he gets because of it is no-one’s fault but his own. His views are divisive and he espouses violence. He has previously threatened the life of this judge. Hell yes he’s going to be one of the first people the authorities look at. And it was a good assumption, as assumptions go. Generally, the best indicator of future behavior is past behavior. ---
**Author:** ![anu-la1979](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/47e85d/32.png) [@anu-la1979](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anu-la1979)\ **Post date:** [March 10, 2005, 11:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/66 "2005-03-10T23:40:04Z")
There was an article on Judge Lefkow in today New York Times, not just as a judge, but more as a person. I know people who externed for her and everything they said came out in the article. She seems like a caring, understanding professional and my heart goes out to her. ---
**Author:** ![eleanorigby](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/ee7513/32.png) [@eleanorigby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eleanorigby)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/67 "2005-03-11T00:53:31Z")
Oy–this IS the news here tonoc (Chicago-NPR). How about that? The cops think Bart Ross looks suspicious, and stop him for a brake light being out–and he offs himself. I bet he thought that they were picking him up for questioning…those letters he wrote are just creepy.\* It’s a shitty reason–and what would be a good one? the only one I can defend at all is self-defense…but why is someone trying to kill you in the first place? I dunno-maybe I ask because I don’t want to believe that murder is done for such stupid “reasons”. Why isn’t it OK to hate White Supremicists? Is it still OK to hate Nazi’s? How about folks like Timothy McVeigh or the Islamic terrorists? I am all for practicing compassion and forgiveness–the world doesn’t have enough of either–but I draw the line at becoming an apologist for those who wantonly dispense violence and terror on innocent people. Hale is definetly one of those people. \*disclaimer to satisfy those who would not have us be judge and jury in the Pit–the police are not ruling out another killer at this point. “Some” evidence “seems” to link Bart Ross to the crime scene and murders. ---
**Author:** ![Zoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/a4c791/32.png) [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/68 "2005-03-11T05:16:26Z")
There is word now on the news of a DNA match. I’m surprised they would have one so soon. I’m not faulting anyone here for their feelings and reactions, especially if they knew the people involved and were upset. But it is interesting to read back through the thread and see how the suspicions sort of fed on themselves and everything seemed to fit together. Human nature at work. I don’t support the death penalty. ---
**Author:** ![Martin\_Hyde](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/47e85d/32.png) [@Martin\_Hyde](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Martin_Hyde)\ **Post date:** [March 11, 2005, 6:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/69 "2005-03-11T06:51:04Z")
I’m indeed glad the initial suspicions were wrong. I think it can serve as a lesson as to why we have a judicial process in this country. No matter how guilty someone may look, they could still be innocent, and we need to make damn sure they aren’t before we convict them. That is our responsibility if we are ever called as jurors, but it should _also_ be our responsibility as citizens to not instantly assume guilt or innocence, for that is the sort of thinking that leads to mob-justice and mob violence against the accused. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 6:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/70 "2005-03-12T06:13:23Z")
I guess I was expecting this. > [@Trunk](#): > > This thread is such a beautiful example of why vigilanteeism is wrong. I’m not sure where you got the idea that I am a vigilante or was calling for anyone else to be one. It should have been pretty clear that I was extremely angry that two of my neighbors had been murdered. I would hope you would feel a bit of rage in a similar circumstance. Don’t twist my words. > [@Trunk](#): > > It shows just how much power the media has, how much one’s preconceived notions influence their stance… You have a point about the media. They certainly planted that idea in my mind as well as the minds of many others. But, considering the track record of Mr. Hale and the fact that one of his followers **did** go on a random shooting spree and kill a couple of innocent people and wound several others a few years back, it isn’t like there wasn’t some reason to initially suspect them. > [@Trunk](#): > > …how completely irrational people become when they let their emotions speak instead of the facts, how rumor and innuendo turn into “fact”… Maybe I’ve misunderstood the purpose of the pit. I thought it is exactly **for** letting emotions speak to a certain extent. Oh BTW \*\*Duke of Rat \*\* and anyone else who has implied that I said something like this: > [@Duke of Rat](#): > > Douse those…bastards in gasoline and set them ablaze! What I actually said, if you would bother to go back and look, was this: > [@Kolak of Twilo](#): > > IF HELL EXISTS, I WILL BE THROWING GASOLINE ON THE FLAMES THAT CONSUME YOU! Get the diff? No talk of throwing gasoline on murdering scum. Gasoline + flames in hell = hotter fire. Get it? And maybe you wanna consider looking up the word hyperbole. If you knew me and realized I don’t believe in a literal hell I think you might understand. Again, don’t twist my words. > [@Duke of Rat](#): > > People get murdered every day by people other than White Supremacists and I don’t see a pit thread for every one of those murders. Well, these are the first people I have ever know who were murdered or had such a senseless act rip their family apart. So that was also part of where my anger came from. If you knew the Lefkows and knew about all the selfless things they did for those less fortunate, then maybe you would understand why so many people had such strong reactions to these killings. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/71 "2005-03-12T06:16:33Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Do you think that suspects in a crime should be doused in gasoline and set ablaze? Stop misrepresenting what I said. Either you didn’t read what I wrote or you intentionally chose to misrepresent it. Not cool, even in the pit. ---
**Author:** ![Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kolak_of_twilo/32/73_2.png) [@Kolak\_of\_Twilo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kolak_of_Twilo)\ **Post date:** [March 12, 2005, 6:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573/72 "2005-03-12T06:21:24Z")
> [@Fear Itself](#): > > Do you think that suspects in a crime should be doused in gasoline and set ablaze? The OP does, and that is what I think deserves an apology. Stop misrepresenting what I said. Either you didn’t read what I wrote or you intentionally chose to misrepresent it. Not cool even in the pit. I have never taken such a position. Never would. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacist-scum-murdered-my-neighbors/292573.md?page=3)