# White supremacists are the biggest ideological threat to American lives, by far **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449 "2019-08-10T12:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 12
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/221 "2019-08-13T19:29:19Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > So you don’t believe McInnes’ own words (cited multiple times already) that he desires and supports violence supports the claim that McInnes supports violence? It is telling that you believe McInnes’ words support the claim that Southern and Molyneux support violence. Also it is funny that a supporter of the most violent military in modern times shows concern over violence. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/222 "2019-08-13T19:32:32Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > Never heard of them plus from what I Googled all 3 are Canadian. > > Besides look at those subscriber numbers, thats still less than 1% of even the population of the US not to mention Canada and the rest of the world. > > You SERIOUSLY think they are the next nazi party and will take over the US? Those are extremely substantial numbers for political youtubers. Now add the fact that these channels are very heavily promoted by the youtube algorithm, and the existence of a [clear political pipeline](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnmRYRRDbuw) starting with people like Joe Rogan, leading through PragerU and Ben Shapiro, to full-bore neo-nazis like Molyneux and McInnes… You ignore societal forces like this at your peril. There are serious problems with online radicalization, and these figures are not fringe figures that are overwhelmingly laughed at, and they run in the same circles as far more mainstream right-wing figures like Sam Harris or Jordan Peterson. Or how about Steven Crowder, who may not be a white supremacist himself, but consistently has guests like these guys on his show? 4,065,316 subscribers • 833,729,981 views Or Dave Rubin (same story)? 1,027,522 subscribers • 220,891,512 views Those are pretty substantial numbers. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/223 "2019-08-13T19:32:37Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > It is funny that you will twist yourselves into pretzels to avoid supporting the claim that Molyneux and Southern support violence. Perhaps you should refrain from trusting biased secondary sources. > > Believe it or not there are other ways to initiate violence, like starting wars. There are other ways to be disingenuous; like changing the subject. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/224 "2019-08-13T19:34:21Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > There are other ways to be disingenuous; like changing the subject. Changing the subject? I continue to ask for support for the claim that Southern and Molyneux support violence. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/225 "2019-08-13T19:36:15Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Those are extremely substantial numbers for political youtubers. Now add the fact that these channels are very heavily promoted by the youtube algorithm, and the existence of a [clear political pipeline](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pnmRYRRDbuw) starting with people like Joe Rogan, leading through PragerU and Ben Shapiro, to full-bore neo-nazis like Molyneux and McInnes… > > You ignore societal forces like this at your peril. There are serious problems with online radicalization, and these figures are not fringe figures that are overwhelmingly laughed at, and they run in the same circles as far more mainstream right-wing figures like Sam Harris or Jordan Peterson. Jordan Peterson is fairly run of the mill lefty. Your labeler is broken. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/226 "2019-08-13T19:36:16Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > It is telling that you believe McInnes’ words support the claim that Southern and Molyneux support violence. I’m glad to see that you agree with me that McInnes supports violence! Good for you from backing off your earlier claim that McInnes does not support violence. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/227 "2019-08-13T19:40:31Z")
Molyneux and Southern may believe that [defending the near-genocide of native Australians](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux#Career) is consistent with opposing violence, and **WillF** may agree, but not all of us do. Similarly, Molyneux and Southern probably believe that [spreading false information that black people are inferior and inherently dangerous](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stefan_Molyneux#Alt-right,_racism_and_white_supremacy) is not a violent action, and **WillF** may agree, but not all of us do. Some of us see white supremacism as inherently violent, due to its history in the US and elsewhere as an ideology fundamentally interlinked with violence. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/228 "2019-08-13T19:42:36Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > I’m glad to see that you agree with me that McInnes supports violence! Good for you from backing off your earlier claim that McInnes does not support violence. Never made that claim. Strike two. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Molyneux and Southern may believe that defending the near-genocide of native Australians is consistent with opposing violence, and **WillF** may agree, but not all of us do. Similarly, Molyneux and Southern probably believe that spreading false information that black people are inferior and inherently dangerous is not a violent action, and **WillF** may agree, but not all of us do. Some of us see white supremacism as inherently violent, due to its history in the US and elsewhere as an ideology fundamentally interlinked with violence. Once again no citations. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/229 "2019-08-13T19:45:11Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Never made that claim. Strike two. You did in #212, but it doesn’t matter – it’s good to see that we both now recognize McInnes’ support for violence. > [@](#): > > Once again no citations. Ha! The citations are there… presumably you now agree with me that Molyneux tolerates and supports violence in some circumstances? ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/230 "2019-08-13T19:45:13Z")
White supremacy is an inherently violent ideology. When you spread conspiracy theories like the great replacement or white genocide (which Southern did), you are inviting violence, as violence is the only possible response to the wholly imaginary threat of white genocide. There’s a reason this keeps getting referenced in shooting manfestos. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/231 "2019-08-13T19:53:34Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > You did in #212, but it doesn’t matter – it’s good to see that we both now recognize McInnes’ support for violence. > > Ha! The citations are there… presumably you now agree with me that Molyneux tolerates and supports violence in some circumstances? Post 212 mentions supposed white supremacists named upthread. Southern and Molyneux for those following the conversation. I’ll call this a foul tip. Wikipedia citations may pass when working for the government, but we aren’t serving the murderous military here. Please cite from primary sources or admit you have nothing. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/232 "2019-08-13T19:55:21Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > White supremacy is an inherently violent ideology. When you spread conspiracy theories like the great replacement or white genocide (which Southern did), you are inviting violence, as violence is the only possible response to the wholly imaginary threat of white genocide. There’s a reason this keeps getting referenced in shooting manfestos. If that’s the case, white supremacists are remarkably docile. You claim that the many followers of Molyneux and Southern buy into “violent” conspiracy theories yet the vast majority take no action. In fact, I don’t think any of the violent supremacists cite Molyneux and Southern as influences. ---
**Author:** ![HurricaneDitka](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/96bed5/32.png) [@HurricaneDitka](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HurricaneDitka)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/233 "2019-08-13T19:57:55Z")
> [@Jasmine](#): > > White Supremacists are part of a significantly large Fascist element in this nation. They radicalize young people and produce “mass shooters” just like groups like ISIS produce “suicide bombers”. I consider them far more dangerous than ISIS because they are the enemy within. **They represent by far the greatest terrorist threat that we face**. They are a threat to our democracy and the ideals upon which the Constitution is based. (emphasis mine) Huh? How are you measuring “greatest terrorist threat”? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/234 "2019-08-13T20:08:31Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > If that’s the case, white supremacists are remarkably docile. You claim that the many followers of Molyneux and Southern buy into “violent” conspiracy theories yet the vast majority take no action. In fact, I don’t think any of the violent supremacists cite Molyneux and Southern as influences. [Dissemble your way out of this](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/04/28/shooting-poway-synagogue-underscores-link-between-internet-radicalization-and-violence): > [@](#): > > The men arrested for carrying out the terror attacks in Pittsburgh and Christchurch espoused that same conspiracy theory. > > Beyond fringe online platforms like 8chan, Gab and, the similar but more high-traffic forum, 4chan, the ideas behind the “white genocide” conspiracy theory are promoted by pundits with hundreds of thousands of followers on Twitter, such as Stefan Molyneux and Lauren Southern. It’s also promoted by high-traffic white supremacist websites of the “alt-right” movement like “ The Daily Stormer,” “Goy Talk,” and “ The Right Stuff” podcast network. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/235 "2019-08-13T20:12:13Z")
WillF, do you sympathize with the views of Molyneux that black people are inferior and dangerous and should be kept separate? If not, why are you expending so much energy defending someone who spreads such obviously hateful and harmful views? I don’t get it. Those views are responsible for murderous violence against millions just in the last few centuries. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/236 "2019-08-13T20:16:52Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > (emphasis mine) > > Huh? How are you measuring “greatest terrorist threat”? Because while the world’s eyes continue to focus on what remains of ISIS, domestically, the [DHS capacity to track homegrown terrorism](https://www.thedailybeast.com/homeland-security-disbands-domestic-terror-intelligence-unit) has been actively & deliberately impeded by this administration. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/237 "2019-08-13T20:50:25Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > [Dissemble your way out of this](https://www.splcenter.org/hatewatch/2019/04/28/shooting-poway-synagogue-underscores-link-between-internet-radicalization-and-violence): How is that something I need to explain? You can’t even cite a single sentence from them advocating violence. It would be easier for me to cite advocacy of political violence by current Democratic congress members. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > WillF, do you sympathize with the views of Molyneux that black people are inferior and dangerous and should be kept separate? If not, why are you expending so much energy defending someone who spreads such obviously hateful and harmful views? I don’t get it. Those views are responsible for murderous violence against millions just in the last few centuries. As I explained upthread, white supremacy is not the most violent ideology. Democracy has led to the identification of the individual with state action. The violence caused by the government is endorsed by the vast majority of citizens and it surpasses the violence of white supremacy by miles and miles. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 8:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/238 "2019-08-13T20:56:58Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > How is that something I need to explain? You can’t even cite a single sentence from them advocating violence. It would be easier for me to cite advocacy of political violence by current Democratic congress members. > > As I explained upthread, white supremacy is not the most violent ideology. Democracy has led to the identification of the individual with state action. The violence caused by the government is endorsed by the vast majority of citizens and it surpasses the violence of white supremacy by miles and miles. This doesn’t remotely address my question. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/239 "2019-08-13T21:01:53Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > How is that something I need to explain? You can’t even cite a single sentence from them advocating violence. It would be easier for me to cite advocacy of political violence by current Democratic congress members. I can’t make you understand that which you have demonstrably shown an unwillingness to even research, much less read. I’m done with your disingenuous bullshit. Wallow in it on your own. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 9:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/240 "2019-08-13T21:04:27Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > I can’t make you understand that which you have demonstrably shown an unwillingness to even research, much less read. I’m done with your disingenuous bullshit. Wallow in it on your own. So you haven’t found a single sentence from Southern or Molyneux supporting violence. This has been a sad display from you. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449.md?page=11) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449.md?page=13)