# White supremacists are the biggest ideological threat to American lives, by far **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449 "2019-08-10T12:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Railer13](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/railer13/32/9742_2.png) [@Railer13](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Railer13)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/301 "2019-08-16T03:48:56Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I live in Kansas and yes, we have lots of supposed “empty” spaces. But to live in them you have to provide jobs, schools, roads, water treatment plants and other infrastructure. so called “empty” spaces exist that way for a reason. People cannot live there. Remember when the new meat packing plants were built in Western Kansas about 40 years ago? And who showed up to take those jobs? Those plants wouldn’t exist without immigrants. And those cities are thriving. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 11:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/302 "2019-08-16T11:39:22Z")
The idea that America is “full” is so ludicrous that it’s not even worth taking seriously. It’s flat-Earth level absurdity. ---
**Author:** ![asahi](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asahi/32/8693_2.png) [@asahi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/asahi)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 11:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/303 "2019-08-16T11:46:22Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The idea that America is “full” is so ludicrous that it’s not even worth taking seriously. It’s flat-Earth level absurdity. It really and truly is on the level of flat-Earth stupid. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 11:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/304 "2019-08-16T11:48:13Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > The idea that America is “full” is so ludicrous that it’s not even worth taking seriously. It’s flat-Earth level absurdity. Certainly that’s the type of… _curve_ we’re on. Dammit, tried too hard, it’s forced. ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/305 "2019-08-16T12:15:00Z")
The USA would have a dropping population if it weren’t for immigration. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 1:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/306 "2019-08-16T13:33:31Z")
We are not full. That is a ludicrous claim and yes, deserves to be taken just as seriously as flat earth and chemtrail stuff. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/307 "2019-08-16T14:26:25Z")
> [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > They wouldn’t like it here either. We’re full of Republicans. Are you saying that Republicans are particularly unwelcoming to immigrants? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/308 "2019-08-16T15:11:21Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I knew someone would pull out the arguement “but we are not as crowded as other places” bit. > > Why, do we HAVE to be as crowded as other places? Do the people in more crowded nations like it that way? > > I live in Kansas and yes, we have lots of supposed “empty” spaces. But to live in them you have to provide jobs, schools, roads, water treatment plants and other infrastructure. so called “empty” spaces exist that way for a reason. People cannot live there. Putting your obvious anger issues aside for the moment, I want you to know that I understand where you’re coming from. I spent a week in Kansas City on business. I stayed in the Power & Light district and the client office was pleasant mile or so walk. It overlooked the cement pillar statue with the steer on top - monument to the local livestock industry, I assume. I enjoyed the brutal architecture of the city and the hospitality. What I enjoyed most, and has eerily stuck with me the longest, is the absolute absence of traffic in the downtown core even at the height of rush hour. I mean there were periods of time when I could not see cars for entire city blocks. I have photos. So if that is your mindset, I can certainly appreciate that large coastal cities and more densely populated states are at least as big a shock to you as Kansas City rush hour was to me. I can’t even say that I didn’t enjoy the relative peace and quiet of a city that is so under-populated. However, I also observed that, entire office building stood completely empty and shuttered, the roads were not well maintained, the airport was a shambles, the kind of ambiance and abundance of culture (theater, museums, fine dining) that I enjoy in a large city was absent. So all in all, I’d say that Kansas City could do with a larger population and a better infrastructure to make it a more interesting place to visit. I guess that’s what you like about living there. The fact that it doesn’t necessarily attract the crowds like L.A., NYC, S.F, DC, etc… That may well be a reasonable point of view to hold for you, coming from this perspective. It does not however, justify the angry opinion of, “Go Home! We’re full!”. It’s just an ill informed and poorly reasoned opinion that sounds very much like one based on a xenophobic nationalist ideology. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/309 "2019-08-16T15:14:45Z")
It’s not xenophobic to point out that at certain levels of immigration assimilation can be impossible. It’s also not xenophobic to point out that loss of territorial integrity is a real concern if concentrations of immigrants on border regions reach a critical mass. History and even contemporary times demonstrate these potential hazards. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/310 "2019-08-16T15:39:24Z")
And how close are we to those levels? Are you saying we are at that cusp right now? Because we are surely not. In fact nowhere near it. This fear and hate mongering of immigration is severely harming our country in many ways. We need more people here. Our birth rate is not high enough and we will start declining in population without immigrants. We are also making this a very unwelcoming place for the kind of “qualified” type of immigrant that your side seems to only want. The rest of the world is looking at us in horror. We need to let go of this hate and fear or we this will just continue to get worse. But maybe this is actually the goal of the right. The less people, the less voters. The less voters, the better for the GOP. If only this strategy wasn’t so harmful to America. ---
**Author:** ![Enginerd](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bcef8e/32.png) [@Enginerd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Enginerd)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/311 "2019-08-16T15:40:34Z")
> [@The\_Tooth](#): > > Plenty of room in Utah. > [@HurricaneDitka](#): > > They wouldn’t like it here either. We’re full of Republicans. > [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I live in Kansas and yes, we have lots of supposed “empty” spaces. But to live in them you have to provide jobs, schools, roads, water treatment plants and other infrastructure. so called “empty” spaces exist that way for a reason. People cannot live there. Wait, did you move halfway across the country in the half hour between those posts? ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/312 "2019-08-16T15:41:25Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > And how close are we to those levels? Are you saying we are at that cusp right now? Because we are surely not. In fact nowhere near it. This fear and hate mongering of immigration is severely harming our country in many ways. We need more people here. Our birth rate is not high enough and we will start declining in population without immigrants. We are also making this a very unwelcoming place for the kind of “qualified” type of immigrant that your side seems to only want. The rest of the world is looking at us in horror. We need to let go of this hate and fear or we this will just continue to get worse. But maybe this is actually the goal of the right. The less people, the less voters. The less voters, the better for the GOP. If only this strategy wasn’t so harmful to America. I said further above in terms of absolute numbers we could take 15 million. I don’t have a problem with that. I do have a problem with de facto open borders and the promotion of the idea that enforcing borders is intrinsically immoral. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/313 "2019-08-16T15:42:16Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s not xenophobic to point out that at certain levels of immigration assimilation can be impossible. It’s also not xenophobic to point out that loss of territorial integrity is a real concern if concentrations of immigrants on border regions reach a critical mass. History and even contemporary times demonstrate these potential hazards. It _is_ xenophobic to use that as an excuse to hate people that look or believe differently than you when there are absolutely no facts to back up the claim. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/314 "2019-08-16T15:43:08Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > It _is_ xenophobic to use that as an excuse to hate people that look or believe differently than you when there are absolutely no facts to back up the claim. I agree. Hatred is bad. And? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/315 "2019-08-16T15:44:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I agree. Hatred is bad. And? Tell the Republican party and its voter base that then. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/316 "2019-08-16T15:45:41Z")
> [@Urbanredneck](#): > > I knew someone would pull out the arguement “but we are not as crowded as other places” bit. > > Why, do we HAVE to be as crowded as other places? Do the people in more crowded nations like it that way? > > I live in Kansas and yes, we have lots of supposed “empty” spaces. But to live in them you have to provide jobs, schools, roads, water treatment plants and other infrastructure. so called “empty” spaces exist that way for a reason. People cannot live there. Funny story, that… [https://www.thechicagocouncil.org/blog/global-insight/immigrants-building-midwestern-boom-towns](https://www.thechicagocouncil.org/blog/global-insight/immigrants-building-midwestern-boom-towns) After decades of economic decline—with the shedding of manufacturing jobs, the Midwest has grown at a rate of less than half the national average over the past 50 years—the region is now experiencing something of a business renaissance. Much of this revival can be linked back to immigration—and its continuity will depend on immigration reform. More than 1 million immigrants moved to the Midwest between 2000 and 2010, revitalizing stagnating cities across the region. St. Louis owes nearly 40 percent of its population growth to immigration during that timeframe; the numbers are nearly 20 percent in Grand Rapids and 19 percent in Lincoln. But beyond their sheer numbers, immigrants are building local economies in other important ways. These new Midwesterners are young. The largest cohort is between the ages of 25 and34, prime working age, replacing greying native-born workers who are retiring en masse from local labor forces. The Midwest’s immigrants are also decidedly entrepreneurial. It’s not just that the country isn’t full. It’s that many places are actively in decline for a variety of reasons, and that immigration has helped many of them bounce back from demographic decline. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/317 "2019-08-16T15:52:40Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > It’s not xenophobic to point out that at certain levels of immigration assimilation can be impossible. It’s also not xenophobic to point out that loss of territorial integrity is a real concern if concentrations of immigrants on border regions reach a critical mass. History and even contemporary times demonstrate these potential hazards. No, it’s not. But if we are nowhere near the levels of immigration assimilation that are possible, nor anywhere near any sort of critical mass to be losing “territorial integrity”, it would be xenophobic to try to use those as excuses for using family separation as a punishment for those who would seek to find asylum or even just refuge from the poverty and crime and corruption they are trying to leave. ---
**Author:** ![octopus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/octopus/32/3716_2.png) [@octopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/octopus)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/318 "2019-08-16T16:00:12Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > No, it’s not. But if we are nowhere near the levels of immigration assimilation that are possible, nor anywhere near any sort of critical mass to be losing “territorial integrity”, it would be xenophobic to try to use those as excuses for using family separation as a punishment for those who would seek to find asylum or even just refuge from the poverty and crime and corruption they are trying to leave. I agree. Family separation is bad but it’s a function of being detained while violating the law. Change the law. Open the borders. But don’t try to have it both ways. As an aside, even before the law is changed, the heartless manner in which we operate detention centers and prisons in this country needs reform. I don’t think that’s possible because we have a retributive and not a rehabilitative society. Anyways, the rise of nationalism in the US, Europe, and elsewhere is going to continue until this debate is conducted with transparency and honesty. The reason being is neither side trusts the others motives. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/319 "2019-08-16T16:04:41Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I said further above in terms of absolute numbers we could take 15 million. I don’t have a problem with that. Over what period of time? > [@](#): > > I do have a problem with de facto open borders and the promotion of the idea that enforcing borders is intrinsically immoral. How do you define “de facto”? And I would agree that enforcing borders is not inherently immoral. Would you agree that there are those who promote the idea of enforcing border for immoral reasons? ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [August 16, 2019, 4:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/320 "2019-08-16T16:10:03Z")
> [@octopus](#): > > I agree. Family separation is bad but it’s a function of being detained while violating the law. Change the law. Open the borders. But don’t try to have it both ways. On every single family vacation I ever went on as a child, my father got pulled over for speeding. Not a single time was our family separated, even though he had broken the law. Change the law so that people who are just looking to work towards a better life are allowed to demonstrate their drive and dedication in doing so, and then we don’t have to worry about it. > [@](#): > > As an aside, even before the law is changed, the heartless manner in which we operate detention centers and prisons in this country needs reform. I don’t think that’s possible because we have a retributive and not a rehabilitative society. Can’t see anything I disagree with there. > [@](#): > > Anyways, the rise of nationalism in the US, Europe, and elsewhere is going to continue until this debate is conducted with transparency and honesty. The reason being is neither side trusts the others motives. I trust their motives, they have told me their motives. They think that the country is FULL and that we cannot take anymore. But you are right, that they claim to not trust out motives when any concern about us separating kids from their parents gets strawmanned as that we just want open borders. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449.md?page=17)