# White supremacists are the biggest ideological threat to American lives, by far **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [August 10, 2019, 12:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449 "2019-08-10T12:17:45Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 9
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/161 "2019-08-13T12:58:38Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > By all means let’s do avoid speaking about the elephant in the room. The problem isn’t white supremacists and racists among us. The problem is the illegal immigrants. Get rid of the immigrants and the racist assholes will stop being racists assholes. Problem solved. Wonderful insight as usual, Shodan. Again, I have to point out that not all those opposed to illegal immigration are even white, and even if they are white many have issues with illegal immigration that has nothing to do with white supremacy. Also, just to defend Shodan, he didn’t say this would solve the problem, and I seriously doubt he thinks that if we managed to fix the illegal immigration issue it would magically make all the racists go away. Only time, shame and ridicule will make them crawl back under their rocks or bridges…even that won’t make them magically disappear. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/162 "2019-08-13T13:03:40Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Interesting comparison. > > Here’s a small sampling of white nationalist youtube channels: > > Lauren Southern > 714,709 subscribers > 59,199,255 views > > Stefan Molyneux > 920,471 subscribers > 278,324,866 views > > Gavin McInnes > 354,577 subscribers > 41,084,259 views > > That’s just three moderately large channels of people who are very obviously white supremacists. > > I don’t think we can make any kind of reasonable comparison to the westboro baptist church. Southern considers herself a white nationalist I believe. Do you have evidence that these folks are white supremacists? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/163 "2019-08-13T13:39:40Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Southern considers herself a white nationalist I believe. Do you have evidence that these folks are white supremacists? :smack: [Definition of white nationalist](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/white%20nationalist): one of a group of militant whites who espouse white supremacy and advocate enforced racial segregation. Can I google anything else for you? ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/164 "2019-08-13T13:39:55Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Southern considers herself a white nationalist I believe. Do you have evidence that these folks are white supremacists? Potato, potato What is the distinction you are trying to make? White Nationalism is abhorrent too, so why is that ok? As far as I can tell white nationalism is just the new name white supremacists are using to make it more palatable, but it’s the same thing. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/165 "2019-08-13T13:55:16Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > :smack: > > [Definition of white nationalist](https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/white%20nationalist): one of a group of militant whites who espouse white supremacy and advocate enforced racial segregation. > > Can I google anything else for you? Yes well Southern has explicitly rejected white supremacy and forced segregation. > [@Airbeck](#): > > Potato, potato > > What is the distinction you are trying to make? White Nationalism is abhorrent too, so why is that ok? As far as I can tell white nationalism is just the new name white supremacists are using to make it more palatable, but it’s the same thing. Didn’t say white nationalism was ok. I said it is different than white supremacy. National movements have been going on for over a century. Many have been peaceful and non-objectionable. ---
**Author:** ![Airbeck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/airbeck/32/6574_2.png) [@Airbeck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Airbeck)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/166 "2019-08-13T13:57:56Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Didn’t say white nationalism was ok. I said it is different than white supremacy. National movements have been going on for over a century. Many have been peaceful and non-objectionable. It’s the ‘White’ part that is the problem. You should stop trying to defend this, it’s not a good look. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/167 "2019-08-13T14:06:21Z")
> [@XT](#): > > Again, I have to point out that not all those opposed to illegal immigration are even white, and even if they are white many have issues with illegal immigration that has nothing to do with white supremacy. Also, just to defend Shodan, he didn’t say this would solve the problem, and I seriously doubt he thinks that if we managed to fix the illegal immigration issue it would magically make all the racists go away. Only time, shame and ridicule will make them crawl back under their rocks or bridges…even that won’t make them magically disappear. I stipulated earlier in my response to your post that racism is not unique to white people. Neither is anti-immigrant sentiment. What is being discussed and evidenced by multiple well documented incidents is rising white supremacism that typically targets minorities. To attempt to excuse it by blaming illegal immigration serves only to contribute to the problem. To address the problem directly, it’s best to avoid conflating the two. But he didn’t. He tried to cover it up by saying it’s an illegal immigration problem. No it isn’t. We know this because there has been a significant rise in crime against minorities in the past 2.5 years, most of whom were either born here or have legal status. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/168 "2019-08-13T14:15:08Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Yes well Southern has explicitly rejected white supremacy and forced segregation. If you can’t believe a white nationalist, who can you believe? > [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Didn’t say white nationalism was ok. I said it is different than white supremacy. What, like in a, ‘separate but equal’, sort of way?.. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/169 "2019-08-13T14:22:01Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > It’s the ‘White’ part that is the problem. You should stop trying to defend this, it’s not a good look. Seriously. White nationalists want to create a white ethnostate by forcibly ejecting non-white people from countries with non-trivial non-white populations. They justify this by appealing to white supremacist propaganda about “the great replacement” and “white genocide”, wherein the mere existence of non-white people becomes treated as a threat to “whiteness”. Whether or not they believe that non-white people are inherently inferior (most of them clearly do), the end result of their beliefs is _genocide_. Ian Danskin has an excellent overview [here](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5Luu1Beb8ng). Splitting hairs between white nationalists and white supremacists, [as though the former was more than a euphemism used by the latter](https://www.adl.org/education/resources/glossary-terms/defining-extremism-white-supremacy), is not a good look. To quote the ADL: White Nationalism **White nationalism is a term that originated among white supremacists as a euphemism for white supremacy**. Eventually, some white supremacists tried to distinguish it further by using it to refer to a form of white supremacy that emphasizes defining a country or region by white racial identity and which seeks to promote the interests of whites exclusively, typically at the expense of people of other backgrounds. Bolding mine. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/170 "2019-08-13T14:42:04Z")
White Supremacy: “Whites are the superior race!” White Nationalism: “In this country Whites are the superior race!” Yeah-I can see where they are _totally_ different. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![bobot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bobot/32/21622_2.png) [@bobot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bobot)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/171 "2019-08-13T14:54:49Z")
NM ---
**Author:** ![thorny\_locust](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thorny_locust/32/431_2.png) [@thorny\_locust](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thorny_locust)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/172 "2019-08-13T15:19:54Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The difficulty is that it is also not a great insight to point out that illegal immigrants are undesirable because they are illegal immigrants, not because of their ethnicity, but it is an insight that seems to be beyond the grasp of many. But the current administration is doing its best to make it illegal for even otherwise desirable immigrants to immigrate. So saying they’d be fine if they’d just come in legally is nonsense, because many desired and desirable people are forbidden to do so; which is an insight that seems to be beyond the grasp of many. ---
**Author:** ![JohnT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnt/32/15048_2.png) [@JohnT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JohnT)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/173 "2019-08-13T15:46:34Z")
I don’t think “illegal immigrants” are de facto bad when the nations immigration laws are cataclysmically stupid and our immigration services are purposely poorly run. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/174 "2019-08-13T16:02:37Z")
> [@thorny\_locust](#): > > But the current administration is doing its best to make it illegal for even otherwise desirable immigrants to immigrate. So saying they’d be fine if they’d just come in legally is nonsense, because many desired and desirable people are forbidden to do so; which is an insight that seems to be beyond the grasp of many. Those who violate the law and come here illegally are inherently less desirable than those who follow the process. So we kick out the ones who break the law, and then the process of deciding who is desirable and who is not can work. There is no shortage of desirable immigrants who want to come to the US. Those who sneak in in contravention of the law are not included in that number. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/175 "2019-08-13T16:04:52Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > It’s the ‘White’ part that is the problem. You should stop trying to defend this, it’s not a good look. Why is the “white” part a problem? Is a peaceful white nationalist movement inconceivable? As I said nationalist movements have sometimes had positive outcomes. > [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Seriously. > > White nationalists want to create a white ethnostate by forcibly ejecting non-white people from countries with non-trivial non-white populations. Ok if that is how you define white nationalism, then the three individuals you mentioned explicitly reject white nationalism. > [@](#): > > Splitting hairs between white nationalists and white supremacists, [as though the former was more than a euphemism used by the latter](https://www.adl.org/education/resources/glossary-terms/defining-extremism-white-supremacy), is not a good look. To quote the ADL: > > White Nationalism > **White nationalism is a term that originated among white supremacists as a euphemism for white supremacy**. Eventually, some white supremacists tried to distinguish it further by using it to refer to a form of white supremacy that emphasizes defining a country or region by white racial identity and which seeks to promote the interests of whites exclusively, typically at the expense of people of other backgrounds. > > Bolding mine. I’m not interested in what is considered a good look by propaganda organizations. I’m interested in clarity more than smear terms. Your claim that the three individuals want to forcibly eject non-“whites” is false. I have no doubt that you will fail to support the claim, but you will continue to smear and link to YouTube videos. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/176 "2019-08-13T16:05:40Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Those who sneak in in contravention of the law are not included in that number. Some of them are highly skilled, highly-hard-working, and highly moral – they (the ones who are truly needy) rightly value feeding their families more than border laws. We should really try and keep those, since many of them would make absolutely top-notch Americans. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/177 "2019-08-13T16:15:28Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Those who violate the law and come here illegally are inherently less desirable than those who follow the process. So we kick out the ones who break the law, and then the process of deciding who is desirable and who is not can work. > > There is no shortage of desirable immigrants who want to come to the US. Those who sneak in in contravention of the law are not included in that number. > > Regards, > Shodan Cool. But still not what we’re talking about. Also, can you clarify for us, who are they trying to kick out when they scream “Send Her Back” at Trump’s racist rallies?? ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/178 "2019-08-13T16:22:23Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Why is the “white” part a problem? Is a peaceful white nationalist movement inconceivable? As I said nationalist movements have sometimes had positive outcomes. > > Ok if that is how you define white nationalism, then the three individuals you mentioned explicitly reject white nationalism. > > I’m not interested in what is considered a good look by propaganda organizations. > > I’m interested in clarity more than smear terms. > > Your claim that the three individuals want to forcibly eject non-“whites” is false. I have no doubt that you will fail to support the claim, but you will continue to smear and link to YouTube videos. We get it. White nationalists and white supremacists are speaking your language. You’ve made that abundantly clear. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/179 "2019-08-13T16:24:19Z")
> [@WillFarnaby](#): > > Is a peaceful white nationalist movement inconceivable? Perhaps not. But IMHO a moral one is. ---
**Author:** ![WillFarnaby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/willfarnaby/32/514_2.png) [@WillFarnaby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WillFarnaby)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2019, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449/180 "2019-08-13T16:28:29Z")
> [@QuickSilver](#): > > We get it. White nationalists and white supremacists are speaking your language. You’ve made that abundantly clear. I bet you think these sentences mean something. > [@Tamerlane](#): > > Perhaps not. But IMHO a moral one is. Are all national movements immoral or just “white” ones? In any case the thread is about dangerous ideologies, not immoral ideologies. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449.md?page=8) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacists-are-the-biggest-ideological-threat-to-american-lives-by-far/838449.md?page=10)