# White Supremacy is not a rhetorical tactic, ZPG\_Zealot **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 12, 2020, 6:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396 "2020-09-12T06:05:19Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 7
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/121 "2020-09-13T21:15:20Z")
I mean, white supremacy IS a rhetorical tactic, if your objective is letting everyone know you’re a vicious racist. ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 9:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/122 "2020-09-13T21:21:16Z")
Fair notice, **DumbTree** : you, also, are now on ignore. But luckily for you, I’m willing to extend the same offer I made to **dumbasserie**. I will _consider_ responding to your arguments in the Pit, where at least I can deal with them on an equal footing rather than having to pretend like they have some merit. Though I do beg you, if you must hijack an existing Pit thread, at least hijack **dumbasserie** ’s. Maybe then he’ll follow your lead and start posting in it himself. Exclusively, I hope. As a reminder, here’s that link again (and this time with an excellent observation by **LHoD** ): > [@Damuri Ajashi, you are a moronic troglodyte of a crackpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damuri-ajashi-you-are-a-moronic-troglodyte-of-a-crackpot/613099/183): > > He’s definitely one of the most tiresome dumbshits on the board, although DemonTree is making a hard push for the title. ---
**Author:** ![iiandyiiii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/iiandyiiii/32/7924_2.png) [@iiandyiiii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/iiandyiiii)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/123 "2020-09-13T21:33:59Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > TIL there are people who think crime stats are scientific racism. Like who? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/124 "2020-09-13T21:41:48Z")
> [@iiandyiiii](#): > > > [@damuriajashi](#): > > > > I continue to consider lies wrapped in pretty packaging to be dangerous. Sweet lies are far more dangerous than bitter ones. > > You are a smart, capable, likeable, and talented person who will, no doubt, succeed at swaying the minds of those who disagree with you, using nothing but facts and logic. > > 😉 How about some CAUTION tape around that post, Bub? 😃 ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 9:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/125 "2020-09-13T21:46:56Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > The lesson that you could have taken is not to just look at stats without analysis, because they may lead you to make unjustified conclusions. All fine lesson, and something I’m happy to agree with. But I’m not interested in debating someone who isn’t open to evidence, most particularly if they’re expecting me to defend some position I don’t actually hold. ---
**Author:** ![k9bfriender](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/k9bfriender/32/3283_2.png) [@k9bfriender](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/k9bfriender)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 9:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/126 "2020-09-13T21:51:13Z")
No one asked you to debate yourself. I will note that this is _your_ quote: > [@DemonTree](#): > > there are people who think crime stats are scientific racism. No one holds that position. No one at all. And we are open to evidence, we just find yours to be lacking, and you are not open to it being criticized on its merits. ---
**Author:** ![Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slow_moving_vehicle/32/291_2.png) [@Slow\_Moving\_Vehicle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slow_Moving_Vehicle)\ **Post date:** [September 13, 2020, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/127 "2020-09-13T23:49:11Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > But I’d expect them to react much the same if they did have a significant population of Romany/Irish Travellers or similar living in caravans. > > They have all those wide open spaces, though, plus plenty of poor Whites in trailer parks, and also that partly-mythologized history of “Wagons West!”, so I wouldn’t expect them to react the same, no Not necessarily. There’s a lot of class-related stigma directed at trailer park residents - “trailer trash” is the common slur. Remember, we don’t like poor people in this country. If the Rom don’t suffer the discrimination in America that they do in Europe, I’m sure it’s due to the fact that there just aren’t that many in the US. Familiarity breeds contempt, after all. I’m over fifty years old, and I can’t remember ever encountering a Romani man or woman. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/128 "2020-09-14T00:02:31Z")
Evidence of what? That black Americans commit more crimes per capita than white Americans? I didn’t think that was controversial. I certainly didn’t expect to get accused of racism for believing something widely believed to be true. Nor for someone to suddenly demand I prove it, or some unspecified related claim, while strongly implying they will find reasons to dismiss any evidence anyway. That sure sounds like a fool’s errand to me. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 12:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/129 "2020-09-14T00:16:38Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Evidence of what? That black Americans commit more crimes per capita than white Americans? Evidence that it’s race based, and not based on poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunities for success, and racism. There is NO meaningful evidence that anything in the African-American genome is responsible for the crime rate. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 12:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/130 "2020-09-14T00:19:40Z")
Who the heck said it was something in the genome? To add to your list, I’d guess drugs and gangs are also a significant factor. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 12:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/131 "2020-09-14T00:27:18Z")
Also, the crime rates are artificially inflated by racist policing, where a white guy is less likely to be arrested for the exact same act. If you disavow actual race-based causes, then there isn’t any real issue to debate. Yes, crime rates are higher, for the reasons noted. “Scientific Racists” – and there are such persons, if no one participating here – say that the higher crime rate among blacks is intrinsic to genetic causes. None of them has ever shown any evidence for this. So everybody’s on the same page now? ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 12:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/132 "2020-09-14T00:41:40Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > I certainly didn’t expect to get accused of racism for believing something widely believed to be true. Who called you a racist? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/133 "2020-09-14T01:05:33Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > > [@DemonTree](#): > > > > I certainly didn’t expect to get accused of racism for believing something widely believed to be true. > > Who called you a racist? - Self-projection. ---
**Author:** ![mikecurtis](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mikecurtis/32/3284_2.png) [@mikecurtis](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mikecurtis)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 1:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/134 "2020-09-14T01:06:40Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Evidence of what? That black Americans commit more crimes per capita than white Americans? You’re not the only one, but you’re looking at the wrong indentifier. Black Americans don’t commit more crimes than white Americans. **Poor** Americans commit more crimes than non poor Americans. In many American cities, the poor population and the Black population closely correlate, but they are not the same. In affluent Black neighborhoods the crime rate closely mirrors the crime rate in any other affluent neighborhood. Likewise in poor white neighborhoods. So the talking point that Blacks commit more crimes than whites is nothing but racist claptrap, and you should not put it forth unless you wish to be called racist. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 1:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/135 "2020-09-14T01:08:45Z")
@Spice_Weasel are you back? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 1:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/136 "2020-09-14T01:38:47Z")
> [@k9bfriender](#): > > To bad you didn’t actually use any reason, logic, or facts to back up your declarations. Just assertions. That’s starting to turn into par for the course around here. > [@k9bfriender](#): > > It is a bit funny that you are taking your ignorance that when people say average, they almost always are talking about the mean, and projecting that onto another poster. It was bad enough the first time that you fucked that up, but you have doubled and tripled down on your ignorance at this point ASL didn’t get tricked into confusing median and average. I pointed out that the average lsat score at stanford was 176 while the average lsat score was 148 and that these represented a significant difference. ASL triumphantly declared that I said average when law schools actually use median. I pointed out to him I was also talking about median. Now he (and you?) think I tricked him by saying average instead of median. You’re ideologically biased but I don’t think you’re stupid so I suspect you didn’t read the exchange or you are reading it in some weird way so that I was actually laying some sort of trap for the unwary by using the word average. ---
**Author:** ![Spice\_Weasel](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spice_weasel/32/5435_2.png) [@Spice\_Weasel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spice_Weasel)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/137 "2020-09-14T01:59:09Z")
I’m trying it out. ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/138 "2020-09-14T02:25:11Z")
-quietly throws confetti- ---
**Author:** ![damuriajashi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ac8455/32.png) [@damuriajashi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/damuriajashi)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/139 "2020-09-14T02:58:43Z")
> [@DemonTree](#): > > Are there any studies that take into account number of arrests or criminal convictions in looking at police killings? In other words, are the police more likely to kill black men when they are arresting them, or are they just more likely to be arresting black men? That makes quite a difference when it comes to fixing the problem. Yes, the Fryer study that finds no greater risk for black men to be killed [shot to death?] by a cop. After correcting for circumstances leading up to the death. The study also finds that black men (and women are significantly more likely to be subjected to excessive force. The pro publica study took the number of black kids 14-19 and put it in the numerator and the number of white kids 14-19 killed by cops and put it in the denominator and declared that cops are 21 times more likely to shoot a young black man than a young white man. And the math on that is correct. The exper they rely on has recanted but it is obvious to me that there is in fact a large difference that cannot be attributed to chance. Perhaps it is in fact racism as iiandyii claims but there is a peer reviewed paper saying otherwise. Gigo cites another study that does this exact same arithmetic exercise. This is useful information to public health policy but it doesn’t counter the findings of the fryer paper. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > because anyone who actually “gets” statistics would understand that (1) absent context, average is generally taken to be referring to a mean, and (2) there is a more than trivial difference between mean and median, particularly when discussing what elite colleges and law schools report as part of their rankings. You are making yourself look stupider by the moment. > [@Buck\_Godot](#): > > Or in other words both studies are right, they were just looking for different things. How in the fuck do you call a division problem a “study” The guy that they relied on for their “study” recanted " _After the story appeared, Klinger said flaws in the FBI data [made it unusable](http://news.stlpublicradio.org/post/how-many-police-kill-black-men-without-database-we-cant-know)._" Even pro publica has backtracked on the notion that their “study” actually means anything "As a final note, many have pointed to our reporting as proof of police bias. That overstates our case; ProPublica found evidence of a disparity in the risks faced by young black and white men. This does not prove that police officers target any age or racial group – the data is far too limited to point to a cause for the disparity. " I am not disputing the disparity exists or that the 21::1 ratio was a fluke, I am arguing that it is not an adequate rebuttal to the fryer paper. > [@iiandyiiii](#): > > Thank you Buck! I guess he is a professional, what did he charge you? > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > There sure are. I wish the scientific racists all the luck in the world as they continue on their voyages of self-discovery (because at the end of the day, I seem to learn more about them than they do about anyone or anything else, every time they put forth a “study”). I don’t think you understand what scientific racism means. If I was using scientific racism in great debates, you could report me. But I’m not. Words have meanings, perhaps not to you and people like you but for the rest of the world it does, or should. > [@ASL\_v2.0](#): > > Fair notice, **DumbTree** : you, also, are now on ignore. Ooh, he’s going to ignore you. You must feel horrible now. ASL is the latest in a long line of very stupid liberals who think that merely being from the right tribe protects them somehow. Most of them have been banned, I’m wondering how long it will take for this shithead. > [@Trinopus](#): > > Evidence that it’s race based, and not based on poverty, lack of education, lack of opportunities for success, and racism. There is NO meaningful evidence that anything in the African-American genome is responsible for the crime rate. I wonder if police shootings are also more closely correlated to poverty than race. > [@Miller](#): > > Who called you a racist? I recall asl talking about scientific racism. Is there a difference between scientific racism and plain vanilla racism? ---
**Author:** ![ASL\_v2.0](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asl_v2.0/32/3525_2.png) [@ASL\_v2.0](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ASL_v2.0)\ **Post date:** [September 14, 2020, 3:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396/140 "2020-09-14T03:01:31Z")
Someone let me know if **dumbasserie** wrote something worth replying to. I’m still waiting for him to learn to use his own thread (kind of like toilet training, I guess) before I waste time reading his… waste. Again, that’s: > [@Damuri Ajashi, you are a moronic troglodyte of a crackpot](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/damuri-ajashi-you-are-a-moronic-troglodyte-of-a-crackpot/613099): > > It’s been a while since I’ve so dearly wished I could send someone careening into the nearest dungheap, Biff-style. Your inability to put two and two together is sincerely baffling and I regret having wasted the time debating such a hopelessly narrowminded twat. You don’t understand statistics, you don’t understand college admissions, you don’t know how to put together a consistent argument, and you’re full of shit (especially your Rice story). Arggg. Retarded. I pray I never have to debate … Because he’s been known as a moronic troglodyte crackpot for nigh onto ten years now and still hasn’t learned. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396.md?page=6) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-supremacy-is-not-a-rhetorical-tactic-zpg-zealot/920396.md?page=8)