# White teen fatally stabbed by black teen at track meet; racists come out of the woodwork **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [April 3, 2025, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593 "2025-04-03T23:37:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 6:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/61 "2025-04-11T18:11:49Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > The Ground Zero of “stand your ground” laws would probably not be having so much public outcry about this case if the races of the stabber and the guy who initially assaulted him had been reversed. If I could find a good way to post a Captain Obvious picture here, I’d be right on it! ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 6:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/62 "2025-04-11T18:14:19Z")
> [@RitterSport](#): > > If I could find a good way to post a Captain Obvious picture here, I’d be right on it! - [![](https://www.creativehumans.com/images/thumb/Screen%20Shot%202022-07-20%20at%2010.53.28%20AM-1658339617924.png) ](https://www.creativehumans.com/images/thumb/Screen%20Shot%202022-07-20%20at%2010.53.28%20AM-1658339617924.png) ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 6:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/63 "2025-04-11T18:15:31Z")
Thanks! ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 6:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/64 "2025-04-11T18:16:28Z")
Yeah, I’m opposed to the “Stand Your Ground” premise and think that (as far as we now know) the stabber’s actions were entirely unjustifiable and inexcusable. If I (NAL) were the stabber’s defense attorney, however, I would definitely be pitching the subtext of my defense strategy towards implying “Well, are you saying that Stand Your Ground is only for white people?!” ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 6:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/65 "2025-04-11T18:19:54Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > “Well, are you saying that Stand Your Ground is only for white people?!” “YES!” ---
**Author:** ![RitterSport](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rittersport/32/6326_2.png) [@RitterSport](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RitterSport)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/66 "2025-04-11T18:42:39Z")
Yeah, that would have to be one non-white jury pool to get away with that one. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/67 "2025-04-11T18:44:08Z")
> [@Airbeck](#): > > There is the literal definition of trapped, and the figurative use. You are stuck on trapped in a physical sense, but people also feel trapped in bad situations, as in dealing with this kind of intimidation/bullying on a regular basis. Agreed. However, I was argiung against the _literal_ definition of trapped which is the suggestion that **LSLGuy** made, not the figurative definition. As a reminder, this is what I was pushing back against: > [@LSLGuy](#): > > If I’m getting hassled by some dude, and it looks like he’s got a few friends, and it looks like I’m trapped / surrounded, for damned sure I’m gonna escalate the force level. Because that’s the only way I’m getting out un-crippled or un-dead. I hope it’s not necessary to point out how stupid the “I was trapped by all the people trying to make me leave” argument is. 😆 As for feeling _figuratively_ trapped by the situation, and feeling like you can’t back down or look like a coward, and backing yourself into a rhetorical corner, I am in 100% agreement and I’m sure that absolutely played a part. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/68 "2025-04-11T20:37:15Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > While it’s possible to be killed in a beat-down, that seems extremely unlikely at a public event - security would obviously break up any altercation before it go to that point. I’m always reminded of Oliver Wendell Holmes who said, “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.” If you feel as though your in danger of being harmed, you’re probably not calculating the odds of exactly how much harm you might be subjected to. In Texas, deadly force is typically authorized when a reasonable person would feel as though they were at risk of losing their life or suffering grievous harm. What’s a reasonable person to feel in this situation? That’s why we have trials. I haven’t seen the totality of the evidence, but I’m willing to reserve final judgment until all the evidence has been weighed. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 9:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/69 "2025-04-11T21:41:03Z")
> [@Atamasama](#): > > As a reminder, this is what I was pushing back against: > > > [@LSLGuy](#): > > > > If I’m getting hassled by some dude, and it looks like he’s got a few friends, and it looks like I’m trapped / surrounded, for damned sure I’m gonna escalate the force level. Because that’s the only way I’m getting out un-crippled or un-dead. > > I hope it’s not necessary to point out how stupid the “I was trapped by all the people trying to make me leave” argument is. When you are in a crowd and they are all around you, and you know they’re all on the other team, but you don’t know which of them are passive observers / cheerleaders and which are itching to get physical, there is no direction you can retreat to. And turning your back on the main protagonist threat is a great way in the real world to end up with your neck or head stove in with a 2x4 or chair or beer bottle or whatever that you didn’t see coming. Because you’re trying to retreat. That’s trapped. It’s a stupid situation to find yourself in, but it is not a stupid argument that at that point you _are_ trapped. Far smarter for the kid to have retreated at the very first sign he was unwelcome there. Whether unwelcome rightly or wrongly, that was the time to depart. > [@Jas09](#): > > While it’s possible to be killed in a beat-down, that seems extremely unlikely at a public event - security would obviously break up any altercation before it go to that point. Security will respond in some minutes. After somebody bothers to call them. And as long as their side is winning, decent bet nobody will bother. This kid had _zero_ allies in that crowd. Meanwhile, as we have just seen in this very case, the time from first violence to fatal injury can be just a few seconds. Choosing to take a beating from what may be a dozen young men and hoping to be rescued by Security in time is a very poor percentage play in the real world. Especially when you consider the likelihood at least some of those other kids have knives too. Maybe even guns. And unlike TV, even 4 unarmed guys can do serious damage to one guy just using whatever implements come to hand: folding chairs, cowboy boots, etc. ---
**Author:** ![Jas09](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/d07c76/32.png) [@Jas09](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jas09)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/70 "2025-04-11T22:01:38Z")
> [@Odesio](#): > > I’m always reminded of Oliver Wendell Holmes who said, “Detached reflection cannot be demanded in the presence of an uplifted knife.” Yes, but it was the alleged murdered who had the knife, not the victim… it’s a bit odd for the more armed person to be the one that is feeling threatened. Again, I understand that this is the law, and if Karmelo can convince a jury that he was threatened to the point where reasonable force was authorized then he will be acquitted. > [@LSLGuy](#): > > This kid had _zero_ allies in that crowd. Because he was in the other team’s tent… I think the race of the accused and the victim, as well as the fact that this was TX, has colored these arguments to an almost unrecognizable point. In either way, and regardless of the law, I still believe that the correct decision is to flee as soon as the threat of violence becomes palpable. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 10:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/71 "2025-04-11T22:17:50Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > I still believe that the correct decision is to flee as soon as the threat of violence becomes palpable. The correct decision of the guy who was stabbed was to get security and not start a fight. ---
**Author:** ![Odesio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/odesio/32/20003_2.png) [@Odesio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Odesio)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/72 "2025-04-11T22:48:55Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Yes, but it was the alleged murdered who had the knife, not the victim… it’s a bit odd for the more armed person to be the one that is feeling threatened. I think you missed the salient point here. When you feel endangered, you’re not necessarily in the right state of mind to assess the situation with a clear mind. It doesn’t matter if the perceived danger is a firearm, a hostile crowd, or if it’s literally an uplifted knife. It’s very easy for you and I to sit back and calculate the odds in the safety and comfort of our own homes. It’s quite a different thing entirely to calculate those odds within a few seconds while under an immense amount of stress. > [@Jas09](#): > > I think the race of the accused and the victim, as well as the fact that this was TX, has colored these arguments to an almost unrecognizable point. In either way, and regardless of the law, I still believe that the correct decision is to flee as soon as the threat of violence becomes palpable. Me too. On all accounts. GTFO. ---
**Author:** ![nearwildheaven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/90db22/32.png) [@nearwildheaven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/nearwildheaven)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/73 "2025-04-11T22:57:25Z")
Yeah, especially because he’s, ahem, not white. ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [April 11, 2025, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/74 "2025-04-11T22:59:11Z")
> [@nearwildheaven](#): > > Yeah, especially because he’s, ahem, not white I think it’s equally inadvisable for children of any race to bring knives to school. ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2025, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/75 "2025-04-12T00:04:52Z")
> [@LSLGuy](#): > > When you are in a crowd and they are all around you, and you know they’re all on the other team, but you don’t know which of them are passive observers / cheerleaders and which are itching to get physical, there is no direction you can retreat to. If you’re suffering from extreme paranoia, sure. Nobody with reason would think that way. You are bending yourself into a pretzel with this laughably ridiculous argument. He went into the opposing team’s tent. He was asked to leave repeatedly and chose not to, until it escalated into a physical confrontation. We don’t have a lot of details but those are details we do have. Your crazy story about being paralyzed with fear until he resorted to pulling out a knife is some crazy fiction and frankly I have no idea where it came from because I know you’re not that stupid. ETA: I do have sympathy for the kid. He obviously didn’t realize the gravity of what he did. He doesn’t seem like some cold-blooded killer. He was asking about the guy he fought and asked if he was okay. He admitted to what he did and it sounds to me like he thought he was justified in defending himself. So I hope that those factors and his youth are mitigating circumstances, though I don’t know his background either, like if he has a history of violence or this was just one bad day that led to tragedy. And I’m wondering what other factors around this incident will go public before and during the trial (if there is one and the kid doesn’t take a plea deal). ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2025, 12:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/76 "2025-04-12T00:30:12Z")
> [@Jas09](#): > > Yes, but it was the alleged murdered who had the knife, not the victim… He had at least one of the knives present at the scene. We don’t know whether anyone else had a weapon available. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2025, 12:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/77 "2025-04-12T00:39:33Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Probably. But that’s how these things often end. I’m still curious to see whether this ends up being as straightforward as it seems on first accout. Armed student from one school decides to sit in a tented area that is set up for (and is marked) as seating for the opposing school. A place where team spirit is a common denominator among the kids who set up the tent. The murderer has a million dollar bail set. It’s possible that there is more to the story. ---
**Author:** ![Steophan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steophan/32/9595_2.png) [@Steophan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steophan)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2025, 2:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/78 "2025-04-12T14:58:46Z")
This board is even more pathologically against self defense than I remembered… I’d have thought the victim being black would change that but no, people are still referring to him as a murderer, not a victim of an attack. Pathetic. ---
**Author:** ![hajario](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hajario/32/171_2.png) [@hajario](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/hajario)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2025, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/79 "2025-04-12T15:02:02Z")
I’d think you’d appreciate the lack of hypocrisy ---
**Author:** ![Atamasama](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/atamasama/32/12961_2.png) [@Atamasama](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Atamasama)\ **Post date:** [April 12, 2025, 3:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593/80 "2025-04-12T15:22:52Z")
> [@Steophan](#): > > I’d have thought the victim being black would change that but no, people are still referring to him as a murderer, not a victim of an attack. “Victim of an attack” makes it sound like he was suddenly attacked out of nowhere rather than this being a series of escalations that led to a physical confrontation. I’ll note that he threatened to stab the eventual dead kid beforehand, so he made his intent clear before anything got physical. On the other hand, “murder” implies a motive that doesn’t seem to be present here or at least we don’t know of one. And there is literally only one person in this thread who called the kid a murderer, and that person is an idiot who I usually keep on ignore. You came back to the board just to spout this inaccurate tripe?! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-teen-fatally-stabbed-by-black-teen-at-track-meet-racists-come-out-of-the-woodwork/1016593.md?page=5)