# "white trash"
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527
**Category:** About This Message Board
**Created:** [June 18, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527 "2007-06-18T23:53:38Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 1
### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 18, 2007, 11:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/1 "2007-06-18T23:53:38Z")
Ok, in this thread here:
[http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=425268&page=2&pp=50](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=425268&page=2&pp=50)
\*\* C K Dexter Haven\*\* Administrator, stepped in and said:
\*"My recollection is that we decide that the last time this was debated, our official moderator ruling was that there are a number of terms that are offensive, but that doesn’t mean that we forbid their use. Our rules forbid “hate speech” – there’s a difference between hate-speech and offensive language.
“Fuck” and “shit” are offensive language but we’re not about to exclude their use. Ethnic slurs like wop, mick, etc are offensive language, but ditto ditto. The only words that I can think of that are both offensive and (usually) border on hate-speech are “nigger” and “kike.” Even then we know there are perfectly reasonable uses (quoting one of Mark Twain’s characters, for instance.) "\*
Ok, but then not too long ago, a poster used the term “Jap” (in a WWII context) but a Mod stepped in an gave an\*\* Official Warning.\*\*
I don’t find “white trash” to be all that bad, it _is_ rather mild as racial slurs go. But then so is “Jap”.
So I am fine with “white trash” being “non forbiden”, but then you dudes have to agree on what terms are verboten, as getting a Warning for “Brit” would be rather sad.
I suggest that other than the two very bad words Dex listed above, none should be “excluded” _per se._ Of course, if thrown around lightly I’d expect a Mod to step in with a cautionary post, but _not_ “an **Official Warning** ”.
Jst something to ponder, OK?
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 12:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/2 "2007-06-19T00:14:31Z")
As somebody who’s used it _and_ had it applied to him/his family more than once, it’s just not on par with other racist and or racial epithets. There’s never been a movement to move “white trash” to internment camps, they’re not an oppressed ethnic group, there’s never been a move to exterminate them (unless you count tornadoes), and as _I_ define the term it’s mostly behavior and [at least to a large degree] chosen lifestyle. Whitetrash is not just a socioeconomically “poor” white person but an uneducated, shiftless, egregiously tasteless, and morally challenged if not downright amoral person. It’s not even religious or geographic necessarily: Roseanne Barr (who’s from Utah and who’s Jewish= two things not usually ) has referred to herself as “America’s worst nightmare: whitetrash with money” and I would agree with her (at least at that time [the Tom Arnold years]- she’s cleaned up a bit since then).
What I _do_ find offensive is the conflation of the terms _redneck_ and _whitetrash_. I blame this mostly on Jeff Foxworthy, whose _You Might Be a Redneck_ routine is really far more about _WhiteTrash_ (and he should know better). A redneck, as I define the term and as it’s used in vulgar parlance Dixiana, is a southerner or midwesterner of any socioeconomic level who has at several of the following:
1- a strong rural & regional accent
2- traditionally blue collar interests (Country music, bottled beer, NASCAR, etc.)
3- is politically conservative
4- is more outdoors than indoors
5- is somewhat but not militantly anti-intellectual
6- is usually Protestant
7- has roots in the farm class (though they themselves may have grown up in downtown Atlanta, they’re close enough to the fields that they know the last generation born there)
8- often romanticize the South (including that damned flag)
9- often opt for simple answers on complex questions (“those towelheads just need to be bombed”)
Basically, if Archie Bunker had been born in Sparta, Mississippi instead of Queens, NYC, he’d have been a redneck, but instead he was their version. Since trucks and farms and the rebel flag aren’t a part of their culture they weren’t a part of Archie’s just as rednecks don’t give much of a damn about most northeastern bluecollar things like bowling leagues or hockey or St. Patrick’s Day parades or the like.
Like Archie, rednecks can be irritating to liberals or intellectuals but they are usually law abiding (speeding tickets and the like not counted) and moral and responsible as most would define the term (may sleep around a bit before/between marriage but they take care of their kids, don’t do hard drugs, etc.). Rednecks can make and in fact usually are good neighbors, and while they may have and express somewhat racist or homophobic thoughts they’re not likely to commit a hatecrime.
Whitetrash are NEVER good neighbors, tend not to take care of their obligations (family, bills, etc.), are often in trouble with the law, are tacky and militantly anti-intellectual (intellectual whitetrash is an oxymoron), can be any or NO religion (for many years the two most likely people to be openly atheist in white southern society were the most educated and the least educated- reference Flannery O’Connor’s _Good Country People_) and while a whole family is often whitetrash it can be overcome, or good people can become whitetrash.
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### Author:  [@Autolycus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Autolycus)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/3 "2007-06-19T00:22:31Z")
I just thought I’d say thanks **Sampiro** for that very insightful clarification on the two terms. I get them mixked up in my mind all the time.
Also waiting for a mod’s reply to the OP.
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### Author:  [@C\_K\_Dexter\_Haven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/C_K_Dexter_Haven)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/4 "2007-06-19T01:13:41Z")
Mods are not here 24/7, so don’t be upset if you haven’t had a response in two hours. This one is possibly going to require some discussion behind the scenes.
However, my understanding of where things stand now, in terms of Message Board rules: there is no word or phrase that is forbidden in and of itself. It all depends on context. This is not unreasonable. We don’t want to be a parody of Gallagher’s “Seven Words You Can’t Say on TV.”
From the [Registration Agreement](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=423183):
> [@](#):
>
> You are free to express your views in a forceful manner provided you remain civil. Hate speech, insults, and purposely inflammatory remarks (i.e., trolling) will not be tolerated. Do not post threats or state or imply that any individual or group is deserving of harm. We recognize that this rule cannot be strictly applied in discussions of war, capital punishment and the like but urge users to express themselves in moderate terms nonetheless. If we tell you to refrain from behavior that we regard as uncivil, do so or face revocation of your posting privileges.
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/5 "2007-06-19T01:20:53Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro]
A redneck, as I define the term and as it’s used in vulgar parlance Dixiana,
[/QUOTE]
Am I being insulted? 🙂
[QUOTE=Sampiro]
Whitetrash are NEVER good neighbors, tend not to take care of their obligations (family, bills, etc.), are often in trouble with the law, are tacky and militantly anti-intellectual (intellectual whitetrash is an oxymoron),
[/QUOTE]
It seems inappropriate to define name calling done by others.
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### Author:  [@OpalCat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OpalCat)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 1:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/6 "2007-06-19T01:27:27Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro]
(buncha really well thought-out and articulated stuff)
[/QUOTE]
Sampiro just said everything I wanted to say about this. Bravo.
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 1:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/7 "2007-06-19T01:48:55Z")
Well-defined, **Sampiro**. A concise clarifcation of terms. As for **carnivorousplant** ’s objection, it is appropriate to define terms, even if those terms are misused by others. I am reminded of the scene in Porky’s…
**Tim:** \*Anybody wanna go fly a kite with me tonight? I hear it’s great weather for flying KITES! I wonder if there’s any KITES around here we can fly! \*
\*\*Brian Schwartz: \*\* \*Hey listen, Cavanaugh. It’s not kite, it’s KIKE! K-I-K-E, “kike.” You know, you’re too stupid to even be a good bigot! \*
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### Author:  [@carnivorousplant](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carnivorousplant)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 2:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/8 "2007-06-19T02:12:20Z")
[QUOTE=silenus]
it is appropriate to define terms, even if those terms are misused by others.
[/QUOTE]
And how does it come to pass that you get to define terms?
I don’t believe much of that meets Margaret Mitchell’s definition. 🙂
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### Author:  [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 2:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/9 "2007-06-19T02:59:46Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven]
We don’t want to be a parody of Gallagher’s “Seven Words You Can’t Say on TV.”
[/QUOTE]
Um, don’t you mean George Carlin?
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### Author:  [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 3:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/10 "2007-06-19T03:04:53Z")
[QUOTE=carnivorousplant]
I don’t believe much of that meets Margaret Mitchell’s definition. 🙂
[/QUOTE]
Mitchell spoke from a simpler time. Even so, Slattery would be “white trash” by \*\*Sampiro’s \*\* definition. 😉
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 5:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/11 "2007-06-19T05:02:49Z")
> [@](#):
>
> **Sampiro** : Whitetrash is not just a socioeconomically “poor” white person…
According to _Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Addition_, that’s exactly what it is. It is the sometimes disparaging way of saying that someone is “poor white.” That’s it.
In your neighborhood, there may be other connotations associated with it and as you said, you have your definition. Elsewhere, it is used with a different meaning. Certainly the label is used casually without any real knowledge of an individual’s morals, intellect, education level, bill paying habits or spiritual nature.
As dictionaries become more and more descriptive, they will eventually pick up on these distorted views and more negative character traits are added to the stereotype of being poor whites.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 6:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/12 "2007-06-19T06:47:09Z")
[QUOTE=C K Dexter Haven]
Mods are not here 24/7, so don’t be upset if you haven’t had a response in two hours. This one is possibly going to require some discussion behind the scenes.:
[/QUOTE]
Perfectly reasonable. Really what I am saying that I don’t think that the “Offical Moderator Warning” 😛 was correct in the “Jap” posting. Not that a _gentle reminder_\* would have been wrong- _in either case_. 😃
\*“Be aware that some are offended by racial slurs, do not use them to refer to your fellow posters, be careful in their usage elsewhere”.
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### Author:  [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 7:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/13 "2007-06-19T07:00:00Z")
[QUOTE=Zoe]
According to _Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Addition_, that’s exactly what it is. It is the sometimes disparaging way of saying that someone is “poor white.” That’s it.
[/QUOTE]
Then _Webster’s Collegiate Dictionary, Tenth Addition_ is wrong.
That is not how it is used. The [Urban Dictionary definitions](http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=whitetrash) are much closer to its vernacular usage.
In any case, I’m white and I’ve been absolutely penniless several times, I grew up in a house with junked cars on its lawn and parents who were (distant) cousins and a mother who married at 16 and a father who drank himself to death, with relatives who lived in walking distance who did not have indoor plumbing and lived under a tin roof with inbred cats. _I’m_ not offended by the term, for I honestly don’t think it occurs to me- it refers to “baby factories” who “dine on mayo sandwiches” and “run meth labs” (examples from the urban dictionary site).
Neither do I consider it a racial slur as white people use it more often than black people do. [White Trash](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/White_trash) does:
> [@](#):
>
> White trash is a racial slur with a classist component targeted at white people and connoting low social status or poor prospects (i.e., downward mobility) or lack of education.
But then it goes on to say
> [@](#):
>
> To call someone white trash is to accuse a white person of being economically, educationally and culturally bankrupt.
Of course with wiki, it would take me 5 minutes to rewrite it as only applicable to George Harrison, of Finno-Ugaritic origin, and a compliment in most states on par with “righteous dude” or “most revered and noble lord father”.
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### Author:  [@DrDeth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrDeth)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 7:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/14 "2007-06-19T07:48:17Z")
[QUOTE=Sampiro]
Neither do I consider it a racial slur as white people use it more often than black people do. .
[/QUOTE]
Right now, in my experience, black dudes use “nigger” far more often than white dudes do. So “nigger” is no longer a racial slur? :dubious:
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### Author:  [@Zoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Zoe)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 8:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/15 "2007-06-19T08:42:36Z")
**Sampiro** , _the Urban Dictionary_ lists four or five individual opinions. No particular insight into language usage is required. This is the same website that offers the following definition for _nigger_: a fully grown niglet. That’s not common usage as you would apparently claim.
You want to designate how the terms should be used in one post (prescriptivism) and then back it up with what is claimed to be “much closer to its vernacular usage.” (descriptivism).
When we disagree about how it’s used, you refer us to a website where the viewpoints come from just another group of anonymous people.
Culturally deprived? Most sociologists would correct you and remind you that at least the stereotype you have been describing is rich in culture. That’s why it makes a good source for storytelling. And not all of it is a point of ridicule. Sometimes a nation is inspired by such stories as _The Grapes of Wrath_.
Your past experiences don’t make you an authority on the morals and daily life of all poor whites. No one is.
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### Author:  [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 12:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/16 "2007-06-19T12:54:18Z")
I personally find the confusion of that dreadfully unfunny Gallager with the one-and-only comedy god George Carlin to be the most offensive thing in this thread.
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### Author:  [@Cub\_Mistress](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cub_Mistress)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 1:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/17 "2007-06-19T13:56:26Z")
[QUOTE=Sold! To the red hatted lady.]
When I was first made a manager my boss would tell me: Every time a problem comes up you will be tempted to devise a solution to it. Don’t. There should never be as many solutions as problems, or you will tie yourself in knots for no reason. Isolated problems do not require solutions.
[/QUOTE]
Can I print this out and post it at work?
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### Author:  [@DSYoungEsq](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DSYoungEsq)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 2:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/18 "2007-06-19T14:06:07Z")
I think the funniest and saddest part of this thread is that everyone except **Dex** appears to have entirely missed the point of the OP (which isn’t about “white trash” at all, of course). \
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### Author:  [@Freddy\_the\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freddy_the_Pig)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/19 "2007-06-19T14:08:46Z")
Jap gets a warning, and for “white trash”, the people who _complain_ about it get warned? Un-fucking-believable.
The user agreement forbids “purposefully inflammatory remarks”. The OP in question asked about certain elements of fashion and dress. These could easily, and more accurately, have been described as “truck stop”, “gas station”, “blue collar”, “working class”, or “rural”. Instead, the poster chose the most gratuitous and inflammatory wording possible–“white trash”. And the people who _complained_ about it got warned. Again, un-fucking-believable.
[QUOTE=Sampiro]
There’s never been a movement to move “white trash” to internment camps, they’re not an oppressed ethnic group, there’s never been a move to exterminate them (unless you count tornadoes) . . .
[/QUOTE]
There has never been any move to do any of the above to Italian-Americans, either, and yet I’m guessing that if I opened a thread and described dark suits and gold chains as “dago fashion” in the thread title, I’d get slapped down pretty quickly.
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### Author:  [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)
#### Post date: [June 19, 2007, 2:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-trash/408527/20 "2007-06-19T14:20:54Z")
[QUOTE=Freddy the Pig]
Jap gets a warning, and for “white trash”, the people who _complain_ about it get warned? Un-fucking-believable.
[/QUOTE]
Don’t forget [the H word](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=414278), lest you slip up.
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