# White Whale of cooking. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079 "2014-12-01T22:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dogzilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@Dogzilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dogzilla)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/41 "2014-12-02T18:40:42Z")
Despite much practice and lots and lots of really great advice from right here on this very board, I am still unable to turn out a perfect flaky pie crust. I may be pastry impaired. Is there a support group for that? ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/42 "2014-12-02T18:44:05Z")
At the risk of violating the OP’s prohibition on advice… I’ll say this about the fried/roasted potatoes: The big trick with potatoes is precooking them. It’s really hard to get them both cooked right in the middle and on the outside if you’re starting with raw potatoes. I suppose you could do some sort of two-level heat trick, but far easier is to boil or microwave the potatoes before you fry/roast them. That way you can get the insides properly cooked, and then use relatively high heat to crisp up and brown the outsides, without worrying if you cooked the insides enough. That’s basically what the “double-fried” French fry technique does, only with oil. Here’s an awesome roasted potato recipe: [http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2008/05/heston-blumenthals-roast-potatoes-recipe.html](http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2008/05/heston-blumenthals-roast-potatoes-recipe.html) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/43 "2014-12-02T18:46:57Z")
> [@bump](#): > > At the risk of violating the OP’s prohibition on advice… I’ll say this about the fried/roasted potatoes: > > The big trick with potatoes is precooking them. It’s really hard to get them both cooked right in the middle and on the outside if you’re starting with raw potatoes. I suppose you could do some sort of two-level heat trick, but far easier is to boil or microwave the potatoes before you fry/roast them. That way you can get the insides properly cooked, and then use relatively high heat to crisp up and brown the outsides, without worrying if you cooked the insides enough. That’s basically what the “double-fried” French fry technique does, only with oil. > > Here’s an awesome roasted potato recipe: > > [http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2008/05/heston-blumenthals-roast-potatoes-recipe.html](http://www.seriouseats.com/recipes/2008/05/heston-blumenthals-roast-potatoes-recipe.html) Yeah, for something like homestyle fried potatoes, where they’re cubed up and fried, I always parcook the potatoes. I believe Serious Eats also advocates parcooking in the microwave for hashbrowns, but I’ve never personally found that necessary (although it takes longer if you don’t parcook.) ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 6:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/44 "2014-12-02T18:55:19Z")
> [@Mahaloth](#): > > Ever tried to make your own [jiaozi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiaozi) and fry them in sesame oil without scalding them or undercooking them? I swear they have a “done correctly” time of 10 seconds or less. Try mixing in 1/4 peanut oil or other high smoke point oil to protect the sesame oil. > [@Chefguy](#): > > :D:D:D I was just going to post that it must be impossibly difficult for cooks to NOT post comments about how to do some of these things the “right” way. I’m going to refrain from arguing or adding my own comments. OP said s/he didn’t want advice. No one else has said that. [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/MkjYMrRrxB0/hqdefault.jpg "Blowing a raspberry") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MkjYMrRrxB0) ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/45 "2014-12-02T19:01:29Z")
My white whale? Piecrust. Mostly for lack of practice. My grandmother was Pennsylvania Dutch and made fantastic piecrust (yes, with lard). I seldom make pie and when I do, I get the crust from the refrigerator section. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/46 "2014-12-02T19:31:11Z")
My white whale is rice. It’s always a gluey mess, and like as not burned on the bottom (I usually fix that by adding a little more water and scraping at it with a metal spatula). Just doesn’t seem fair, since I follow the instructions to the letter! I’m pretty sure the answer to this is to buy a rice cooker, but then I will have _lost_. Also I happen to know that someone in my family is getting a sushi-making kit for Christmas and he may have need of my rice glue to hold that shit together. ---
**Author:** ![Labrador\_Deceiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7c8e57/32.png) [@Labrador\_Deceiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Labrador_Deceiver)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/47 "2014-12-02T19:42:55Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, for something like homestyle fried potatoes, where they’re cubed up and fried, I always parcook the potatoes. I believe Serious Eats also advocates parcooking in the microwave for hashbrowns, but I’ve never personally found that necessary (although it takes longer if you don’t parcook.) Along with country ham, this is our only must-have food for our traditional Christmas Day breakfast. I throw a 5-lb bag’s worth of potatoes in the oven for 45 minutes on Christmas Eve, then fry them up the next morning. I’m at least the 4th generation to make them this way. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/48 "2014-12-02T19:49:18Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > OP said s/he didn’t want advice. No one else has said that. Just trying to respect the intent of the thread. If **wolfman** doesn’t mind, I don’t. Perhaps we need a “Harpoon your whale!” spinoff thread. ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/49 "2014-12-02T19:53:36Z")
> [@Dung\_Beetle](#): > > My white whale is rice. It’s always a gluey mess, and like as not burned on the bottom (I usually fix that by adding a little more water and scraping at it with a metal spatula). Just doesn’t seem fair, since I follow the instructions to the letter! > > I’m pretty sure the answer to this is to buy a rice cooker, but then I will have _lost_. Also I happen to know that someone in my family is getting a sushi-making kit for Christmas and he may have need of my rice glue to hold that shit together. Cook your rice as if it were pasta. Just fill a pot like you might make spaghetti in and heat it up. Throw in your cupfuls of rice and put the lid on. After about 15-20 minutes, try the rice. If it’s good, strain and move on. If it’s still starchy or tough, give it another 10 minutes. ---
**Author:** ![vontsira](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/51bf81/32.png) [@vontsira](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/vontsira)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/50 "2014-12-02T20:01:18Z")
For my brother – a “foodie” and keen amateur cook – the “White Whale” is the dosa: South Indian savoury rice-flour pancake, crisp and lightly browned outside, succulent inside. He’s been trying for years to master the skill of making these items, and experiencing great frustration. He’s mastered to perfection, making the various nice savoury things to fill, and serve with, said dosas; but dependably making the pancakes themselves to the desired quality, seems obstinately to elude him. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/51 "2014-12-02T20:01:48Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Yeah, for something like homestyle fried potatoes, where they’re cubed up and fried, I always parcook the potatoes. I believe Serious Eats also advocates parcooking in the microwave for hashbrowns, but I’ve never personally found that necessary (although it takes longer if you don’t parcook.) Potatoes: I don’t parboil. I heat the fat well, throw in the potatoes, lower the heat and cover them so they’ll cook through. After a few minutes, I turn them and leave the cover off so they get crisp on the outside. Part of the solution is to find the right thickness: too thin, they burn or get tough unless you’re right on top of them (like hashbrowns); too thick, they don’t cook through. Biscuits: I make buttermilk/butter biscuits, not lard, though any fat will work, as will any dairy (buttermilk, milk, nonfat, yogurt). I use self-rising flour, as does any self-respecting Southerner. I cut in cold butter, make a hole in the middle and add the dairy, then mix until just shaggy looking. Dump out on a floured board, pat the dough down, fold in half, pat it down, fold in half and pat it to desired thickness. Cut with whatever works, although most books tell you NOT to twist the cutter. place on a baking sheet (touching or not, depending on what you want the result to be). Bake for about 14 minutes, remove, brush with melted butter. Drown in sausage gravy. I can’t recommend the book ‘Southern Biscuits’ highly enough. Rice: use a nonstick pot and Basmati rice, which is almost impossible to screw up. Rinse the rice very well, add to the water, bring to a boil, cover and simmer on low for about 15 minutes or so. Let rest for five minutes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/52 "2014-12-02T20:11:36Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Cook your rice as if it were pasta. Just fill a pot like you might make spaghetti in and heat it up. Throw in your cupfuls of rice and put the lid on. After about 15-20 minutes, try the rice. If it’s good, strain and move on. If it’s still starchy or tough, give it another 10 minutes. This is very good, fail safe advice. Rice seems to be something that, for whatever reason, eludes some people. I follow the basic directions (though usually with a little less water), and it always comes out fine. My only guesses are the cookware people are using (perhaps too thin of a bottom) or their heat settings, although there’s only two settings I use: full blast, and all the way down once it comes to a boil. When all else fails, the pasta method is the one I recommend (and when making very large batches of rice, like for 10 or more cups, it’s the one I prefer, too.) ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/53 "2014-12-02T20:14:05Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Cook your rice as if it were pasta. Just fill a pot like you might make spaghetti in and heat it up. Throw in your cupfuls of rice and put the lid on. After about 15-20 minutes, try the rice. If it’s good, strain and move on. If it’s still starchy or tough, give it another 10 minutes. This is very good, fail safe advice. Rice seems to be something that, for whatever reason, eludes some people. I follow the basic directions (though usually with a little less water), and it always comes out fine. My only guesses are the cookware people are using (perhaps too thin of a bottom) or their heat settings, although there’s only two settings I use: full blast, and all the way down once it comes to a boil. When all else fails, the pasta method is the one I recommend (and when making very large batches of rice, like for 10 or more cups, it’s the one I prefer, too.) ETA: oh, and good advice by **Chefguy** in terms of recommending basmati. If you like a drier, easily separable grain style of rice, that one is perfect. ---
**Author:** ![Icarus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/icarus/32/72_2.png) [@Icarus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Icarus)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/54 "2014-12-02T20:25:16Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > My only guesses are the cookware people are using (perhaps too thin of a bottom) … That’s my guess also, you need a thicker bottom and sides type of pan. ---
**Author:** ![Dung\_Beetle](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dung_beetle/32/7945_2.png) [@Dung\_Beetle](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dung_Beetle)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/55 "2014-12-02T20:26:43Z")
> [@Inner\_Stickler](#): > > Cook your rice as if it were pasta. Just fill a pot like you might make spaghetti in and heat it up. Throw in your cupfuls of rice and put the lid on. After about 15-20 minutes, try the rice. If it’s good, strain and move on. If it’s still starchy or tough, give it another 10 minutes. My god, that’s insane! Thank you! 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Inner\_Stickler](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/inner_stickler/32/318_2.png) [@Inner\_Stickler](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Inner_Stickler)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/56 "2014-12-02T20:32:29Z")
I learned it from Sarah Moulton, and if you can’t trust her, who can you? Just make sure to use a finer mesh strainer than is necessary for pasta. It stings a bit when you lose half the rice for your dinner down the drain, he said, totally not bitterly. I always remember no one else is in the kitchen with me. If the biscuits fall apart, screw you, I was making dumplings anyway. If the gravy won’t thicken, it’s a glaze, if it’s too thick, it’s a savory pudding you philistine. Just keep the wine bottles uncorked and no one will find anything to complain about. ---
**Author:** ![purplehorseshoe](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/purplehorseshoe/32/2996_2.png) [@purplehorseshoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/purplehorseshoe)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/57 "2014-12-02T20:32:31Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > For me it’s Hollandaise. Which is my all time favorite sauce, of course. I’ve tried everything, I swear, and I can’t bear the Knorr packet version… You reminder me of my white whale: pesto sauce. I’ve made it with fresh, home-grown basil, various amounts of pine nuts or none at all, different oil ratios … I wind up with a grassy-tasting, slightly bitter, dark olive green colored mess. Damn Knorr packets. I have about a half-dozen of that exact flavor in my pantry right now, none others, and in fact don’t use many “shortcut” products like those. But oh, those Knorr pesto packets … if they ever stop making them I’ll have to start hoarding them. Protip: makes an awesome marinade for chicken, too. 🙂 > [@Mahaloth](#): > > Ever tried to make your own [jiaozi](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jiaozi) and fry them in sesame oil without scalding them or undercooking them? I swear they have a “done correctly” time of 10 seconds or less. I thought sesame oil was for “raw” usages (i.e. garnish, dipping sauce etc.) so maybe that’s the problem? When I make potstickers, I pan-fry them for a few minutes in regular veggie oil until one side is browned, add a few tablespoons of water to steam them, then pan fry a few more minutes once the water has quick-steamed away. Never had a problem. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 8:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/58 "2014-12-02T20:41:30Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > For being such a simple food, potatoes give a lot of people fits, for some reason. > > Mashed: too gooey, too grainy, too dry > Pan fried: too burned, too raw, too greasy > Deep fried: too greasy, burned, undercooked > Scalloped: undercooked, grainy sauce, tasteless > > All I can say is: Practice. I have plenty of practice with potatoes (they’re probably my favourite starch): boiled, baked, stuffed, twice baked, mashed, fried, German, potato salad, aloo gobi, and I have all of them down to pretty consistent, yummy results. Scalloped I have done well, twice, out of the dozens of times I have tried making them over the years. I may try parboiling next time around as that is the one thing I haven’t normally done with them… ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/59 "2014-12-02T21:01:47Z")
> [@swampspruce](#): > > I have plenty of practice with potatoes (they’re probably my favourite starch): boiled, baked, stuffed, twice baked, mashed, fried, German, potato salad, aloo gobi, and I have all of them down to pretty consistent, yummy results. Scalloped I have done well, twice, out of the dozens of times I have tried making them over the years. I may try parboiling next time around as that is the one thing I haven’t normally done with them… Oh, I can sympathize. I just found [this recipe](http://southern.food.com/recipe/scalloped-potatoes-85629), which has a five star rating over nearly 600 reviews. Might be worth a shot. ---
**Author:** ![Lukeinva](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lukeinva/32/17872_2.png) [@Lukeinva](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lukeinva)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/60 "2014-12-02T21:07:04Z")
I can’t dunk. However, I do make incredibly awesome oven fries, the best you have ever had. Ever. Evar! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079.md?page=4)