# White Whale of cooking. **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [December 1, 2014, 10:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079 "2014-12-01T22:24:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Dr.Girlfriend](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dr.girlfriend/32/193_2.png) [@Dr.Girlfriend](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Girlfriend)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 9:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/61 "2014-12-02T21:08:02Z")
Count me in the “can’t make pie crust” group. The times I’ve tried it’s been a nightmare. I can make cakes, cheesecakes, bread, biscuits, you name it. But not pie crusts. I have an aunt who can throw together the best pie crust you’ve ever tasted in just a couple of minutes, but she’s an aunt by marriage so I have no hope of inheriting that gene. She tried to show me once. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. My grandma used to make good pie crusts too. I asked her to show me how she did it and she went to the fridge and pulled out the Pillsbury box. If it’s good enough for Grandma… ---
**Author:** ![Count\_Dracula](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/54ee81/32.png) [@Count\_Dracula](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Count_Dracula)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 9:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/62 "2014-12-02T21:29:32Z")
Some girls shy away from me when I get close to their neck. It frustrates me to no end! Also, no garlic please. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/63 "2014-12-02T22:08:02Z")
I was hoping after reading these responses that I’d find just one as humiliating as mine. But nope. Mine’s still the worst. I can’t believe I’m admitting it in public: Instant Pudding. I can make custard and pudding from scratch. I can make pies and profiteroles and pastries. I can make rice sticky or not, to order. I’ve even begun to master pan fried potatoes (the trick is indeed to parcook them and then dry them very thoroughly before frying.) I’ve even recently learned to make the perfect over-medium egg, which thwarted me for a while. I can’t make instant pudding. I don’t know what’s happening. It’s always lumpy, with little specks of…Stuff in it… I’m so ashamed. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 10:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/64 "2014-12-02T22:15:39Z")
> [@Dr.Girlfriend](#): > > Count me in the “can’t make pie crust” group. The times I’ve tried it’s been a nightmare. I can make cakes, cheesecakes, bread, biscuits, you name it. But not pie crusts. I have an aunt who can throw together the best pie crust you’ve ever tasted in just a couple of minutes, but she’s an aunt by marriage so I have no hope of inheriting that gene. She tried to show me once. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. > > My grandma used to make good pie crusts too. I asked her to show me how she did it and she went to the fridge and pulled out the Pillsbury box. If it’s good enough for Grandma… I make two kinds of pie crusts, a softer, richer one that is fragile, and a firmer one that works well for complex lattice tips. the only real difference is the ratio of flour to shortening. My husband’s recipe calls for mixing in the shortening in two portions. The first one is cut into the flour until it is like coarse sand, and the second one only until it is “pebbly”. The chunks of unmixed shortening are what makes the flakes. When you roll out the dough, those chunks turn into wide disks, less than a milimeter thick, that keep the dough from adhering to itself, and create flakes when the heat of cooking spreads the fat throughout the crust. Use pastry flour and don’t over-mix to keep it from getting tough. and don’t expect a perfect disk. ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 2, 2014, 10:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/65 "2014-12-02T22:40:34Z")
Pie crusts: cut the butter into the flour with a food processor. Add the requisite liquid (I use OJ instead of water), and then refrigerate it. After the butter has re-chilled, take the dough out and put it on a lightly floured board to start coming back to workable temp. As soon as it starts becoming malleable again, gently roll it out with a floured rolling pin; only your fingertips should be on the rolling pin handles. ---
**Author:** ![slightly\_askew](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d07c76/32.png) [@slightly\_askew](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/slightly_askew)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 2:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/66 "2014-12-03T14:54:42Z")
Pierogi. My mother’s are amazing. My are heavy. Very, very heavy. I really need to take my kitchen scale to her house and have her weigh everything as she adds ingredients, because her instructions of “until it looks right” just aren’t that helpful. ---
**Author:** ![zoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/zoid/32/336_2.png) [@zoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zoid)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/67 "2014-12-03T15:54:45Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > I was hoping after reading these responses that I’d find just one as humiliating as mine. But nope. Mine’s still the worst. I can’t believe I’m admitting it in public: Instant Pudding. > > I can make custard and pudding from scratch. I can make pies and profiteroles and pastries. I can make rice sticky or not, to order. I’ve even begun to master pan fried potatoes (the trick is indeed to parcook them and then dry them very thoroughly before frying.) I’ve even recently learned to make the perfect over-medium egg, which thwarted me for a while. > > I can’t make instant pudding. > > I don’t know what’s happening. It’s always lumpy, with little specks of…Stuff in it… > > I’m so ashamed. ☹ Use a wire whisk. ---
**Author:** ![swampspruce](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/swampspruce/32/261_2.png) [@swampspruce](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/swampspruce)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/68 "2014-12-03T16:00:43Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Oh, I can sympathize. I just found [this recipe](http://southern.food.com/recipe/scalloped-potatoes-85629), which has a five star rating over nearly 600 reviews. Might be worth a shot. I’ll give’r a shot. Thanks **Chefguy**! I may substitute the cayenne with nutmeg though. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/69 "2014-12-03T16:02:29Z")
> [@zoid](#): > > Use a wire whisk. Of course! Done it…Stuff. Kitchen Aid stand mixer with the whisk attachment…Stuff. Hand held mixer with the whisk attachment…Stuff. Stick blender…Stuff. Elbow grease and a real whisk…Stuff. I don’t know what that Stuff is, but it’s nasty. So instant pudding is off the menu. ---
**Author:** ![bump](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/7c8e57/32.png) [@bump](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bump)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 4:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/70 "2014-12-03T16:53:04Z")
> [@purplehorseshoe](#): > > You reminder me of my white whale: pesto sauce. I’ve made it with fresh, home-grown basil, various amounts of pine nuts or none at all, different oil ratios … I wind up with a grassy-tasting, slightly bitter, dark olive green colored mess. I noticed you left out an ingredient- Parmesan or Romano cheese. That’s kind of the background flavor to the whole shebang- you need as much or more cheese as pine nuts/walnuts. The oil is only enough to make the whole mess blend into a paste. Our usual procedure is to put the nuts, salt and basil into the blender, along with the cheese, and spin it up, and drizzle oil in, until it’s the right consistency. Taste it, and adjust the ingredients until it tastes right. ---
**Author:** ![cher3](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/da6949/32.png) [@cher3](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cher3)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/71 "2014-12-03T17:22:24Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > Pie crusts: cut the butter into the flour with a food processor. Add the requisite liquid (I use OJ instead of water), and then refrigerate it. After the butter has re-chilled, take the dough out and put it on a lightly floured board to start coming back to workable temp. As soon as it starts becoming malleable again, gently roll it out with a floured rolling pin; only your fingertips should be on the rolling pin handles. That’s interesting. Is the OJ just for flavor, or does it affect the process in some way? ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 6:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/72 "2014-12-03T18:37:33Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Of course! Done it…Stuff. Kitchen Aid stand mixer with the whisk attachment…Stuff. Hand held mixer with the whisk attachment…Stuff. Stick blender…Stuff. Elbow grease and a real whisk…Stuff. > > I don’t know what that Stuff is, but it’s nasty. So instant pudding is off the menu. Huh. This is perplexing. Are you adding the milk to the pudding, rather than the other way around? And cold milk, of course. So, put instant pudding powder in bowl, slowly add milk while whisking. ---
**Author:** ![Leo\_Bloom](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leo_bloom/32/10377_2.png) [@Leo\_Bloom](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leo_Bloom)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 7:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/73 "2014-12-03T19:03:58Z")
> [@TruCelt](#): > > For me it’s Hollandaise. Which is my all time favorite sauce, of course. I’ve tried everything, I swear, and I can’t bear the Knorr packet version. > > :sigh:… A Hollandaise Can Sense Fear ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/74 "2014-12-03T21:27:49Z")
> [@cher3](#): > > That’s interesting. Is the OJ just for flavor, or does it affect the process in some way? It’s the way my mother always made them (except for the food processor part). It’s also the way my sister made them. And it’s the way I’ve continued to make them. The OJ flavor doesn’t really come through, or at least it’s not strong enough to make a difference, but her crusts always had a nice sweetness. I’ve always wondered if the acidity of the juice has something to do with the extraordinary flakiness of her crusts, but I don’t think the science will support that notion; as far as I know, flakiness is due to cutting in the cold butter and not manhandling the dough. She also brushed the top of her crust with milk instead of that nasty egg wash that a lot of commercial pie makers use. ---
**Author:** ![missred](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/missred/32/14096_2.png) [@missred](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/missred)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/75 "2014-12-03T21:52:04Z")
> [@Dr.Girlfriend](#): > > Count me in the “can’t make pie crust” group. The times I’ve tried it’s been a nightmare. I can make cakes, cheesecakes, bread, biscuits, you name it. But not pie crusts. I have an aunt who can throw together the best pie crust you’ve ever tasted in just a couple of minutes, but she’s an aunt by marriage so I have no hope of inheriting that gene. She tried to show me once. It was a traumatic experience for both of us. > > My grandma used to make good pie crusts too. I asked her to show me how she did it and she went to the fridge and pulled out the Pillsbury box. If it’s good enough for Grandma… I think part of this is that in the 21rst century, we tend to make pie 2-3 times a year, if that. My grandmother made them several times a week, as they were served for at least one meal a day. She had loads more practice. ---
**Author:** ![Elemenopy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/b5e925/32.png) [@Elemenopy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elemenopy)\ **Post date:** [December 3, 2014, 11:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/76 "2014-12-03T23:28:17Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. This is perplexing. Are you adding the milk to the pudding, rather than the other way around? And cold milk, of course. So, put instant pudding powder in bowl, slowly add milk while whisking. Come in here to say this. Like most emulsions, add the liquid a little at a time with a fast whisk. Once you get a smooth paste, then you can pour faster. My ex made me some cream of mushroom soup from a can once, when I was super sick, that was a bowl of scalded milk with lumps of condensed soup dumplings because he didn’t know that trick. 😉 My betes noirs of cooking are poached eggs and cookies. The eggs just fall apart into watery mush, and cookies always spread out into burnt, 3mm thick disks. I’ve tried everything. ---
**Author:** ![WhyNot](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/c77e96/32.png) [@WhyNot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WhyNot)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 1:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/77 "2014-12-04T01:12:34Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > Huh. This is perplexing. Are you adding the milk to the pudding, rather than the other way around? And cold milk, of course. So, put instant pudding powder in bowl, slowly add milk while whisking. :eek: That might just be it! NO! I’ve always followed the directions on the box, which say: Instructions: Pour 2 cups of cold milk into a medium bowl. Add Mix. Beat with a wire whisk or electric mixer for 2 minutes; then pour immediately into dessert dishes Refrigerate until ready to serve. :eek: ---
**Author:** ![TruCelt](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/trucelt/32/523_2.png) [@TruCelt](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TruCelt)\ **Post date:** [December 4, 2014, 3:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/78 "2014-12-04T15:23:25Z")
> [@WhyNot](#): > > Of course! Done it…Stuff. Kitchen Aid stand mixer with the whisk attachment…Stuff. Hand held mixer with the whisk attachment…Stuff. Stick blender…Stuff. Elbow grease and a real whisk…Stuff. > > I don’t know what that Stuff is, but it’s nasty. So instant pudding is off the menu. > [@WhyNot](#): > > :eek: > > That might just be it! NO! I’ve always followed the directions on the box, which say: > > Instructions: > Pour 2 cups of cold milk into a medium bowl. > Add Mix. > Beat with a wire whisk or electric mixer for 2 minutes; then pour immediately into dessert dishes > Refrigerate until ready to serve. > > :eek: My Grandmother used to sift the mix into the milk. I would think this would eliminate any possible lumps. ---
**Author:** ![Fenris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fenris/32/498_2.png) [@Fenris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fenris)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/79 "2014-12-05T13:15:02Z")
Two of 'em for me: One is a general one: Real fried chicken (as in “on the bone”) and tempura. Either the outside comes out burned and the inside raw, or it all turns to leather–greasy leather–or (and yes, I’m pretty sure it’s thermodynamically impossible) the batter on the chicken was still undercooked and mostly liquid while the chicken was done but stringy/fiberous. I’ve adjusted the temp of the oil every direction, I’ve tried deep frying in a pot of oil\*, I’ve tried “shallow” frying in a cast iron skillet with melted crisco\* and I JUST! CAN’T! DO! IT! (PS-no fair telling me to either pound the meat flat–I want real, bone-in, fried chicken and no fair saying "Don’t batter it, just use bread-crumbs, corn-flake crumbs, cracker crumbs, etc. That’s good, but it doesn’t count for what I want) The other…there was a little cafe’ in Denver called “The Brick Oven Beanery”. They had a citrus marinated rotisserie chicken that I can’t duplicate. They’ve been out of business for at least 15 years and I can’t get it right. There’s some secret ingredient I’m missing. \*And just what the hell do you do with the leftover oil/crisco? ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [December 5, 2014, 2:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079/80 "2014-12-05T14:17:53Z")
> [@Fenris](#): > > … > \*And just what the hell do you do with the leftover oil/crisco? This is why, after one or two early attempts, I’ve given up on frying food at home. It came out good enough. With practice, I’m sure it could have been excellent. But it’s just not worth it. When I have a hankering for fried food, be it chicken or French fries, I go to a restaurant with a fryolator. My brother does fried turkey once a year, but that’s a huge production, and he does several birds sequentially, so it seems worth while. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/white-whale-of-cooking/706079.md?page=5)