# Whiteness and Capitalism Go Hand In Hand **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [January 10, 2026, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567 "2026-01-10T17:45:55Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 10, 2026, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/1 "2026-01-10T17:45:55Z")
> [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/6222): > > trying to understand why the country I lived in for the last two decades suddenly turned onto such a violent and hateful trajectory. There was nothing sudden about it. For some of us non-Americans, this has _always_ been the face the USA shows outside its own borders. And also, _internally_ this has been coming since Appomattox, one way or another. > [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/6222): > > I think mostly they are the victims of capitalism, not so much “whiteness” You say this like the two don’t go hand-in-hand. ---
**Author:** ![DesertDog](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/desertdog/32/11503_2.png) [@DesertDog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DesertDog)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 7:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/2 "2026-01-11T07:59:10Z")
You’re talking like late-stage capitalism distinguishes between its white and non-white ~~workers~~ assets. In a way racial equality has finally been achieved in the eyes of some. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 8:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/3 "2026-01-11T08:57:21Z")
> [@DesertDog](#): > > You’re talking like late-stage capitalism distinguishes between its white and non-white ~~workers~~ assets. Doesn’t it? IME, a white worker and a POC worker can both be exploited, but _in practice_ that exploitation is unequal. Capitalism’s abstract logic might be colour-blind, but how it actually operates clearly is not. Because actual ruling capitalists like Musk etc. are not. If capitalism were genuinely post-racial, racial inequality should have declined as capitalism intensified into late-stage capitalism. Instead, it has persisted, and in many cases worsened, which suggests that LSC is not only compatible with racial hierarchy but perfectly capable of reproducing it. Two examples: - Wealth growth is now driven far more by housing, stocks, and financial instruments than by wages, and because white households were historically more likely to own assets, they benefit disproportionately from this shift. - At the same time, labour markets have polarised, with POC workers concentrated in lower-paid, higher-risk, actively union-suppressed roles like warehouse and gig jobs, while management and ownership remain far less diverse. _Exploitation_ may be universal, but _its most precarious forms_ are still unevenly distributed. You are right that LSC treats people as assets. Historically, though, racialisation has been one of the most effective ways to differentially value, devalue, and discard those assets. You can clearly see this in current labour stratification: At Amazon, about 27% of the workforce identifies as Black or African American, yet roughly 85% of Black employees are in warehouse roles, and only around 8% are in managerial positions. So tell me again how LSC is colourblind? _Capitalism_ does not care what colour you are, because it is an abstraction. But _capitalists_ profit enormously from the fact that _society_ does. ---
**Author:** ![Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/left_hand_of_dorkness/32/7156_2.png) [@Left\_Hand\_of\_Dorkness](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Left_Hand_of_Dorkness)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 2:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/4 "2026-01-11T14:08:27Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > At Amazon, about 27% of the workforce identifies as Black or African American, yet roughly 85% of Black employees are in warehouse roles, and only around 8% are in managerial positions. I am confused by these numbers. Wouldn’t the relevant comparison be to the percentage of white workers in managerial positions? Or comparing the percentage of black workers at each level to the percentage of black workers as a whole? ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/5 "2026-01-11T15:38:07Z")
Agreed; while I don’t doubt for a second that there is massive disparity at Amazon (they are Evil, after all) I don’t know if 8% being in management is wildly different from the percentage of non-POC employees. ---
**Author:** ![Roderick\_Femm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/roderick_femm/32/14875_2.png) [@Roderick\_Femm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Roderick_Femm)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 3:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/6 "2026-01-11T15:44:07Z")
Yes, what you want to compare is the percentage of management staff who are Black (not the percentage of Black staff who are management) to the percentage of all workers who are Black. The presumption being that parity in these percentages proves racial equality at that company, or at least is some evidence of it. ---
**Author:** ![LSLGuy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lslguy/32/5813_2.png) [@LSLGuy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LSLGuy)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/7 "2026-01-11T16:07:24Z")
There’s actually two different measures here. If the percentage of black workers is the same at all levels from low to high, that shows the company is egalitarian as to promotions. if the percentage of black workers matches the local population, that shows they’re egalitarian in hiring. All of that is made a bit more complicated by the fact that not every worker joins at the bottom and works their way up. And because the racial mix of people able to step into a no-experience-required warehouse worker job is different from the racial mix of e.g. experienced warehouse manager or late career regional vice president candidates. This latter difference isn’t caused by Amazon necessarily, but may also not be being ameliorated by them. Like Wal\*Mart, they are a large enough, and geographically diversified enough, employer that their polices can move the national needle. For good or for ill. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 4:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/8 "2026-01-11T16:14:36Z")
Proportional representation _is_ the comparison. If Black workers make up 27% of the workforce but are overwhelmingly concentrated in warehouse roles and sharply underrepresented in management, that’s evidence of stratification on its own. I was trying to make that point without centering the story of White workers for a change. But since you insist - the same 2020 study I got the Black warehouse number from said that only 54% of White employees were in warehouse roles. And overall, POC made up 73% of warehouse workers and only 19% of management. Just do the 100-X maths to get the White numbers. Incidentally, the numbers are just as shitty for women vs men. But that’s not what this little bit of y’all stanning for the oligarchs is concerned about. ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 4:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/9 "2026-01-11T16:22:36Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Proportional representation _is_ the comparison. If Black workers make up 27% of the workforce but are overwhelmingly concentrated in warehouse roles and sharply underrepresented in management, that’s evidence of stratification on its own. But the numbers you gave didn’t say anything about whether they’re “underrepresented in management.” You said that around 8% of Black employees are in managerial positions; but this is compatible with 100% of managers being Black, and also with 0.01% of managers being Black. ---
**Author:** ![puzzlegal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/puzzlegal/32/3827_2.png) [@puzzlegal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/puzzlegal)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 4:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/10 "2026-01-11T16:36:49Z")
> [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/6241): > > But the numbers you gave didn’t say anything about whether they’re “underrepresented in management.” You said that around 8% of Black employees are in managerial positions; but this is compatible with 100% of managers being Black, and also with 0.01% of managers being Black. Yes, that wasn’t a useful comparison. But > [@MrDibble](#): > > And overall, POC made up 73% of warehouse workers and only 19% of management Is ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/11 "2026-01-11T16:48:47Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > But the numbers you gave didn’t say anything about whether they’re “underrepresented in management.” Under-represented _relative to their workforce share_. What matters is proportionality. If Black employees are 27% of the workforce but only about 8% of Black employees are in management, then Black representation collapses as you move up the hierarchy. If outcomes were race-neutral, you would expect roughly similar proportions at each level, not a steep drop-off. The relevant measure is conditional probability, not logical compatibility. The question is: given that someone is a Black employee, how likely are they to be in management compared to their share of the workforce? At Amazon, actually, 65% of staff is fulfillment (including warehouse staff) - but 85% of Black staff is warehouse (not fulfilment overall, even). If management were, say, 15% of the overall workforce but only 8% of Black workers reach it, then Black workers are under-represented relative to baseline. The exact racial composition of managers doesn’t change that maths. > [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > this is compatible with 100% of managers being Black, and also with 0.01% of managers being Black. For managers to be 100% Black, management would have to be _overwhelmingly_ smaller than the Black workforce, or recruitment would have to bypass the existing workforce entirely. Neither scenario describes Amazon - warehouse managers tend to be internally promoted - so the “100% of managers” case is an abstract mathematical possibility with no relevance to the real structure being discussed. Or, in other words, not really here for you to play logic games while continuing to stan for Bezos. ---
**Author:** ![Kron](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kron/32/12444_2.png) [@Kron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kron)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/12 "2026-01-11T17:09:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If Black employees are 27% of the workforce but only about 8% of Black employees are in management But what would matter is if Black employees are 27% of the workforce, but only 8% of the management staff. Not what percentage of the Black workforce is in management… because if only 8% of the white workforce is also in management, it’s still egalitarian. Your other numbers do paint the picture more starkly (and again, I 100% expect Amazon to be a shitty, racist employer.) ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/13 "2026-01-11T17:11:19Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If Black employees are 27% of the workforce but only about 8% of Black employees are in management, then Black representation collapses as you move up the hierarchy. No, that’s not what those numbers imply. I think you’re still committing the Prosecutor’s Fallacy: confusing the percentage of Black employees who are in management with the percentage of management who are Black. Suppose Amazon has 100 Black workers total: 8 managers, all of whom are Black, and 92 Black warehouse workers. Then 8% of Black employees would be in management. You could additionally suppose that there are enough other (white) workers, all warehouse workers, so that 27% of the entire workforce is Black. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/14 "2026-01-11T17:18:31Z")
> [@Kron](#): > > if only 8% of the white workforce is also in management, it’s still egalitarian. > [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/6245): > > . I think you’re still committing the Prosecutor’s Fallacy: confusing the percentage of Black employees who are in management with the percentage of management who are Black. I’m not confusing those two quantities, and I’m not trying to infer the racial composition of management from _that_ statistic. I agree completely that “8% of Black employees are managers” does _not_ tell us what percentage of managers are Black. I already gave the other statistics that speak to that ( **which you seem to be ignoring** ) The claim I’m making is different. It’s about internal distribution, not about dominance of management. If Black employees are 27% of the workforce but roughly 85% of Black employees are in warehouse roles and only about 8% are in management, that tells us that Black workers are disproportionately concentrated in roles with limited access to management, and disproportionately thinned out as you move up the hierarchy. **That conclusion does not depend on the racial makeup of managers overall.** Y’all keep trying to center this on the White people. Why is that? ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/15 "2026-01-11T17:25:49Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If Black employees are 27% of the workforce but roughly 85% of Black employees are in warehouse roles and only about 8% are in management, that tells us that Black workers are disproportionately concentrated in roles with limited access to management, and disproportionately thinned out as you move up the hierarchy. At least one of us is still confused. I don’t see how it tells us that at all. (And, in case it needs to be said, I am only disputing the “that tells us” part. Your conclusion may well be true, but I don’t see how it is supported by the percentages you give.) ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/16 "2026-01-11T17:33:59Z")
Which is why I later gave the other percentages (that I was already aware of as they’re in the same report), but did not make explicit because I wanted to center the Black numbers only. That implicit baseline underlies these numbers, but I see no point in repeating them every time I mention the Black numbers. So by _this_ point, I’m assuming y’all are aware of the 65% overall baseline, and are only harping on the Black-only numbers for shits and giggles (at best). ---
**Author:** ![Babale](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/babale/32/15666_2.png) [@Babale](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Babale)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/17 "2026-01-11T17:36:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > If Black employees are 27% of the workforce but roughly 85% of Black employees are in warehouse roles and only about 8% are in management, that tells us that Black workers are disproportionately concentrated in roles with limited access to management, and disproportionately thinned out as you move up the hierarchy Those numbers alone don’t tell us that at all. If for example 5% of overall employees are in management then 8% is an over representation not an underrepresentation. > [@MrDibble](#): > > Y’all keep trying to center this on the White people. Why is that? ROFLMAO ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/18 "2026-01-11T17:37:18Z")
> [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/6249): > > Those numbers alone don’t tell us that at all. > [@MrDibble](#): > > So by _this_ point, I’m assuming y’all are aware of the 65% overall baseline, and are only harping on the Black-only numbers for shits and giggles (at best). Little slow, there, Comrade. > [@What were you THINKING?](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/what-were-you-thinking/991532/6249): > > ROFLMAO Whiteness, so high-lareeus… Isn’t there a genocide somewhere you can be denying, motherfucker? Or wait, do the bit where you pretend that you actually _are_ a POC, that’s always high comedy. ---
**Author:** ![Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/elmer_j.fudd/32/1211_2.png) [@Elmer\_J.Fudd](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elmer_J.Fudd)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/19 "2026-01-11T17:38:06Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Y’all keep trying to center this on the White people. Why is that? I’m sure white people will be very relieved to learn that they have nothing whatsoever to do with racial inequality. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [January 11, 2026, 5:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567/20 "2026-01-11T17:39:17Z")
I’m sure POC everywhere will be very relieved to know it’s what White people think that counts… Man, White fragility and White defensiveness really comes out on this board when Whiteness is raised, doesn’t it? [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteness-and-capitalism-go-hand-in-hand/1026567.md?page=2)