# Whitey's on the moon? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 23, 2000, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356 "2000-06-23T20:23:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 7:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/21 "2000-07-26T19:02:49Z")
If this keeps up I’ll need a new theory soon. OK, the stars not in the picture was obvious, I just threw it in there, and in retrospect the dust settling thing was incredibly obvious, I was just so proud of having a conspiracy I overlooked it. I still don’t see how you get around that crater under the lander tho. Something tells me someone will. I can’t believe I registered on the SDMB just to have my baby fall apart like this. ---
**Author:** ![Philbuck](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/e9a140/32.png) [@Philbuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Philbuck)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/22 "2000-07-26T20:06:00Z")
**Spider** said: > [@](#): > > I still don’t see how you get around that crater under the lander tho. Take a look at the pictures from Apollo 11 [here](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/20130735.jpg) and [here](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/20130764.jpg). One can see that the dust under the LM is in fact disturbed. Keep in mind that the loose dust on the lunar surface is not as deep as most people think. Also you can see the track made by the Apollo 12 lander just before touching down [here](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a12/20129005.jpg). The lower track is from the LM, and the tracks on the left and intersecting it diagonally are from astronauts. (I found these on [this page](http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/NOT_faked/).) ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2000, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/23 "2000-07-26T21:27:48Z")
Spider comments: > [@](#): > > I still don’t see how you get around that crater under the lander tho. Remember that the gravitational pull of the moon is 1/6th that of earth. The thrust required to land softly was much less than required for the same mass on earth. Similar lifting situations on earth do not create craters. Like the Harrier. Note the dust layer on the moon is not very thick, and the regolith is solid rock, like concrete. > [@](#): > > Last of all, look at the astronauts. One became a senator, the others rich recluses (except for that photo op last year). First, can you verify that statement that they are rich? What constitutes rich? How much money do they have? Second, the astronauts went on to various lives. A couple became politicians - John Glenn and … (damn my recall, one of the last guys up, the only scientist, from New Mexico?) Wasn’t Buzz Aldrin one as well? It doesn’t take much to see why they might be politicians - politics is largely a game of name recognition, and these guys could play on the hero factor. Neil Armstrong became a recluse, but then he always was a quiet and personal fellow. Not one for public attention. A couple went on to careers with NASA before retiring. Now they’re all old, mostly retired. Not exactly recluses, just the world doesn’t really have as much attention for 30 yr ago heros. It’s too wrapped up in teenage pop stars with more publicity than anything else. Any other conspiracy theory “evidence”? ---
**Author:** ![Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 1:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/24 "2000-07-27T13:06:41Z")
Well crap, now I need something else to scare away annoying people in bars. I’m in the market for a new conspiracy people, preferably one which doesn’t involve the honor of a nation, a billion dollar space program, and that cruel bitch “science.” ---
**Author:** ![Fiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/e274bd/32.png) [@Fiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fiver)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/25 "2000-07-27T13:34:53Z")
**Spider** : > [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Spider \* > \*\*Well crap, now I need something else to scare away annoying people in bars. I’m in the market for a new conspiracy people, preferably one which doesn’t involve the honor of a nation, a billion dollar space program, and that cruel bitch “science.” I don’t know why you’re so concerned about your conspiracy theory making sense. Most real ones don’t anyway, and have been soundly debunked here. Your average Joe in a bar won’t know as much as we do here, so your arguments will probably work on him. ---
**Author:** ![ERoske](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/858c86/32.png) [@ERoske](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ERoske)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/26 "2000-07-27T21:40:16Z")
I’ve seen video of Neil Armstrong bouncing down the steps, uttering his words, planting our flag… All I’m trying to figure out is if Neil was the first man on the moon, who was holding the movie camera? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2000, 10:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/27 "2000-07-27T22:16:18Z")
For the famous shots of him stepping out onto the surface, there was an automatic camera on one leg of the lander. Ever notice that the angle looked kind of funny? ---
**Author:** ![Saltire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saltire/32/553_2.png) [@Saltire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saltire)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 9:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/28 "2000-07-28T21:20:30Z")
Also, many of the shots of an astronaut exiting the LEM are of Aldrin, and were taken by Armstrong who was already on the surface. ---
**Author:** ![Telemark](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/telemark/32/372_2.png) [@Telemark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Telemark)\ **Post date:** [July 28, 2000, 9:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/29 "2000-07-28T21:53:34Z")
> [@](#): > > Also, Armstrong stepped out like 5 mins after landing. Didn’t they spend something like 6 hours on the moon before exiting the lander? I thought they actually attempted to sleep before going outside. ---
**Author:** ![Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/50afbb/32.png) [@Duck\_Duck\_Goose](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duck_Duck_Goose)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/30 "2000-07-29T12:55:40Z")
Here’s something that **Spider** might be interested in. The Better Half, knowing that I enjoy this sort of thing, brought home from work yesterday a Xerox copy of an article from _Fate_ magazine that a co-worker gave him. In it, a man named Felix Bach insists that he can see many, many structures obviously built by aliens on the moon. (He has no photos, however, only sketches.) He says if we would all just go out and buy better telescopes, we would be able to see them, too. [This](http://www.textfiles.com/ufo/moondome.asc) was the only thing I could find on the Web offhand, but then I didn’t look very hard. > [@](#): > > What could be more galling than spotting still further changes in > the monstrous moon objects I’ve been viewing and telling folks about > lately, especially after all the effort our vaunted “space experts” > keep expending to convince us that _nothing_ is up there?.. If you need another conspiracy theory, this one appears to be quite serviceable. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Joe\_Cool](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ecb155/32.png) [@Joe\_Cool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Joe_Cool)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2000, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/31 "2000-07-29T20:07:48Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Irishman \* > **…the astronauts went on to various lives. A couple became politicians - John Glenn and … (damn my recall, one of the last guys up, the only scientist, from New Mexico?)…** The guy you’re trying to think of is Senator Harrison Schmidt. I don’t remember what years he served, but I seem to think he was a republican. ---
**Author:** ![domina](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/96bed5/32.png) [@domina](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/domina)\ **Post date:** [July 30, 2000, 4:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/32 "2000-07-30T16:51:49Z")
Structures on the moon, Nazi bases on the moon, Masonic symbols on the moon–it’s all [here](http://www.sff.net/people/MBourne/W-LunarLunacy.htp). You can clear out a whole tavern with this stuff, Spide. ---
**Author:** ![Spider](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9bcb4/32.png) [@Spider](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spider)\ **Post date:** [July 31, 2000, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/33 "2000-07-31T13:19:48Z")
Thanks, but I’ve decided to go with those pesky black helicopters in the sky over NYC. I’ve been watching them for a while now and they all seem to be different branches of some mysterious overarching “NewsChannel” secret organization. Nazis on the moon? I laugh in your general direction. Come on, I don’t wanna sound like a weirdo now, do I? ---
**Author:** ![xizor](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xizor/32/102_2.png) [@xizor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/xizor)\ **Post date:** [August 1, 2000, 12:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/34 "2000-08-01T00:35:49Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by ERoske \* > \*\*I’ve seen video of Neil Armstrong bouncing down the steps, uttering his words, planting our flag… > \*\* I heard recently on the radio that the flag planted by Armstrong fell down before they even left the surface. He couldn’t get it to stay up good since all he had to anchor it in was a thin layer of dust covering rock. If so, then the flag is probably slowly getting covered with dust and may not even be visible any more. Does anybody have any info on this fact? I couldn’t find any on my cursory looking. ---
**Author:** ![Irishman](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/b487fb/32.png) [@Irishman](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Irishman)\ **Post date:** [August 3, 2000, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356/35 "2000-08-03T22:09:22Z")
xizor asked: > [@](#): > > I heard recently on the radio that the flag planted by Armstrong fell down before they even left the surface. He couldn’t get it to stay up good since all he had to anchor it in was a thin layer of dust covering rock. If so, then the flag is probably slowly getting covered with dust and may not even be visible any more. Does anybody have any info on this fact? I couldn’t find any on my cursory looking. Check out [Apollo Lunar Surface Journal](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/frame.html). It has all the Apollo pictures from the NASA archives, plus the transcripts of the mission logs. At 110:07:38 (hr, min, sec format) Aldrin begins setting up the flag. At 110:10:30 Armstrong takes the picture of Aldrin saluting flag. [AS11-40-5874](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/20130716.jpg) At 111:06:34 here is another picture with flag still standing. [AS11-40-5949](http://www.hq.nasa.gov/alsj/a11/20130792.jpg) It did not fall down immediately. Although the loose dirt was only a few inches thick, they did okay with the flag. However, on launch there was a lot of thrust from the rocket, and the flag was pretty close to the lander, so it probably was blown over by their departure. So yes, it is lying down getting covered by any dirt kicked up by meteor impacts. And any residue from the takeoff. On topic with the discussion of moon hoax, I just found a couple good sites on the topic, taking up many of the issues you find from the pro-hoax crowd. See [Apollo Hoax answers](http://www.apollo-hoax.co.uk/homepage.html) [Jim Scotti’s Apollo Page](http://pirlwww.lpl.arizona.edu/~jscotti/apollo.html) [redzero Moon Hoax page](http://www.redzero.demon.co.uk/moonhoax/) Note that redzero’s answers are good, but his tone is pretty viscious. A couple of those sites access the Apollo Lunar Surface Journal page for their pictures. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whiteys-on-the-moon/23356.md?page=1)