# Whither DeBeers in 50 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620 "2005-10-10T20:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/1 "2005-10-10T20:08:21Z")
> [@](#): > > "In the back room of an unmarked brown building in a run-down strip mall, > eight machines, each the size of a bass drum, are making diamonds. That’s > right - making diamonds. Real ones, all but indistinguishable from the > stones formed by a billion or so years’ worth of intense pressure I can’t help but feel mine is the last generation to purchase an artifically inflated price for a bauble who’s rarity was created by Marketing Campaign ([http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeBeers](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DeBeers)) So, do you think they’ll still be around in 50 years, or will they be yet another buggy-whip manufacturer? (Not that I’m bitter, my $3200 diamond DID appraise at twice that…not that I could offload it when I needed to. 😛 Good thing a woman came along that deserved the money spent, if not the actual value of the carbon in the setting.) ---
**Author:** ![jawdirk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/df705f/32.png) [@jawdirk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jawdirk)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/2 "2005-10-10T20:44:32Z")
I think DeBeers will still be around, but they’ll be selling manufactured diamonds. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 9:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/3 "2005-10-10T21:16:58Z")
I’m asking because I don’t know- what did cultured pearls do to the value of “natural” pearls? ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/4 "2005-10-10T21:19:44Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m asking because I don’t know- what did cultured pearls do to the value of “natural” pearls? No clue. I know oysters are seeded artifficially, but since they’re still ‘made’ naturally, there’s still a limit to the number that can be produced. ---
**Author:** ![CynicalGabe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/3e96dc/32.png) [@CynicalGabe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CynicalGabe)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/5 "2005-10-10T21:42:05Z")
Out of business, with any luck. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 10, 2005, 10:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/6 "2005-10-10T22:49:21Z")
That was a very interesting article about using carbon vapor deposition to grow a 5 carat stone in a couple of weeks. I wish this guy great success. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/7 "2005-10-11T00:09:40Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m asking because I don’t know- what did cultured pearls do to the value of “natural” pearls? Go to [Bochic Pearls](http://www.bochic.com) and browse around. You’ll see that top quality _cultured_ pearls themselves are astoundingly expensive, so I imagine the same would still be true of natural ones. ---
**Author:** ![jweb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/71c47a/32.png) [@jweb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jweb)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/8 "2005-10-11T00:09:48Z")
One of two things will probably happen: 1. Synthetic diamonds will be able to be cheaply produced; however, they are still sold at huge markups (why sell a big diamond for $20 when you can sell it for $5000? What the market will bear and all that). Basically, nothing changes for the end consumer, except that you’ll be able to buy a diamond without (most likely) supporting one of the most evil corporations on the planet. 2. Synthetic diamonds are able to be cheaply produced and are sold at (relatively) low prices, and out of control of DeBeers. DeBeers launches a huge marketing FUD campaign intended to convince unenlightened folks (male and female alike) that these ‘laboratory’ diamonds are not, and cannot possibly be as valuable as the ‘all-natural’ diamonds that they offer. Oh, and by the way, you want your fiance to have The Best, right? So some marketing genius figures out a way to equate “The Best” with “Most Expensive” and “All Natural” (For ideas of how to accomplish this, take a look at the advertising for bottled water) ---
**Author:** ![buttonjockey308](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/bcef8e/32.png) [@buttonjockey308](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/buttonjockey308)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 12:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/9 "2005-10-11T00:53:50Z")
My guess is that the inventor of this diamond contraption will meet his untimely demise at the hands of DeBeers rented muscle, and DeBeers will snatch the technology for themselves, and increase their profit margin a hundred fold, not having to actually mine for diamonds and all. ---
**Author:** ![Unintentionally\_Blank](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/unintentionally_blank/32/5418_2.png) [@Unintentionally\_Blank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Unintentionally_Blank)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/10 "2005-10-11T01:16:52Z")
> [@buttonjockey308](#): > > My guess is that the inventor of this diamond contraption will meet his untimely demise at the hands of DeBeers rented muscle, and DeBeers will snatch the technology for themselves, and increase their profit margin a hundred fold, not having to actually mine for diamonds and all. Problem with that theory is, there’s three or four companies already doing it and they’re pretty well publicized. Now, if DeBeers pays them all a ton-o-money, I might agree. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/11 "2005-10-11T01:32:29Z")
Dude, be quiet, they’ll come a get you. You know they are a major illuminati player don’t you. 😉 Actually, I sincerly hope you are right, the diamond market is pathetic. I bought my wife a small 1/4c engagement ring and an upright Piano as we both agreed that a large diamond is silly. My wife thankfully would still rather have new windows than a large rock. She loves the piano. ---
**Author:** ![Hello\_Again](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/85e7bf/32.png) [@Hello\_Again](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hello_Again)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/12 "2005-10-11T01:35:55Z")
Hopefully stewing in the juices of their own evil in the deepest pit of Hades. A girl can dream, can’t she? ---
**Author:** ![lorinada](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/b5e925/32.png) [@lorinada](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/lorinada)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 1:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/13 "2005-10-11T01:42:38Z")
> [@danceswithcats](#): > > That was a very interesting article about using carbon vapor deposition to grow a 5 carat stone in a couple of weeks. Where? 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 3:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/14 "2005-10-11T03:14:40Z")
I tell myself that I refuse to buy a diamond simple because of Debeers. I now have an option, which means that I might end up getting married (women seem to be offended that I won’t buy diamonds). Thanks, I will spend twice the money on an artifical diamond, rather than have my money go support slavery. ---
**Author:** ![Ranchoth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ranchoth/32/1066_2.png) [@Ranchoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ranchoth)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 3:50am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/15 "2005-10-11T03:50:10Z")
DeBeers’ll be manufacturing disposable composite-material Kalashnikov clones for $2.50 each, and the ever popular laser-guided RPG-7 warhead. :smack: ---
**Author:** ![Armilla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e19b73/32.png) [@Armilla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Armilla)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 4:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/16 "2005-10-11T04:13:20Z")
I saw an interesting [documentary](http://www.bbc.co.uk/science/horizon/2004/diamondlabs.shtml) a little while ago that was all about the DeBeers response to the growth in artificial diamonds. They are developing / have developed an array of techniques that can distinguish natural diamonds from artificial ones. Despite being basically the same material the artificial ones have a different distribution of impurities in the carbon matrix; something that can be detected by careful examination under coloured polarised light, conductivity tests, spectral analysis of fluorescence etc. Needless to say the machines for performing these tests aren’t cheap. DeBeers has initiated something it calls the “Gem Defensive Programme” which is providing such detection machines to jewelers alongside a campaign to promote the use of natural stones rather than “fake” ones. [Wired article](http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/11.09/diamond.html). It’s also spearheading the research into detecting the synthetic stones. It’s likely that DeBeers, via the DTC, will also be putting pressure on the sightholders (companies authorised to buy rough diamonds from DeBeers - a list of only 84 worldwide) to refuse to deal with synthetics. Sightholders pretty much have to take what DeBeers gives them and, until synthetic production can begin to match demand, they won’t jeopardise their supply. This means that for gem quality synthetics to break into the market they will probably have to go through other channels of distribution, dealing and cutting, increasing their price and decreasing their availability. Pearls, these days, are almost always cultured rather than natural. Natural ones are worth more due to their rarity, but look and feel exactly the same as the cultured ones. Pretty much the only way to settle a dispute over the origin of a pearl is with an x-ray machine, and even that is not guaranteed since it relies on spotting the smooth, spherical seed used in culturing from the random grit found at the centre of natural ones. There’s no reason that a pearl farm couldn’t use more natural looking seeds other than the economic fact that it would reduce the yield of perfect, spherical (and therefore valuable) pearls. In this case cultured pearls would be pretty much undetectable. DeBeers is going to fight like hell to maintain their monopoly for the forseeable future, using whatever scientific and marketing methods they can. I think they may have to since they have billions of dollars of diamonds in reserve at the moment, waiting for more favourable market conditions - stock that has been bought but which has not yet turned a profit. If the price of all diamonds collapses it may seriously affect their financial future. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/17 "2005-10-11T04:21:10Z")
> [@lorinada](#): > > Where? 😕 Sorry. Original article in USA Today, also listed on Fark. [Linky here](http://www.usatoday.com/tech/news/techinnovations/2005-10-06-man-made-diamonds_x.htm). ---
**Author:** ![kidchameleon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/898d66/32.png) [@kidchameleon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kidchameleon)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/18 "2005-10-11T09:35:32Z")
> [@Unintentionally Blank](#): > > Problem with that theory is, there’s three or four companies already doing it and they’re pretty well publicized. Now, if DeBeers pays them all a ton-o-money, I might agree. Bah, GE can chew DeBeers up and spit them out. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/19 "2005-10-11T14:11:31Z")
> [@Armilla](#): > > DeBeers is going to fight like hell to maintain their monopoly for the forseeable future, using whatever scientific and marketing methods they can. I think they may have to since they have billions of dollars of diamonds in reserve at the moment, waiting for more favourable market conditions - stock that has been bought but which has not yet turned a profit. If the price of all diamonds collapses it may seriously affect their financial future. It’s likely DeBeers will kick off an ad blitz that depicts the giving of “lab” diamonds as the practice of souless tightwads, while the giving of natural diamonds is … you get the point. I doubt that approach will work with 90+ percent of purchasers. If this technology does go primetime–which will take many, many years–it will be interesting to see what DeBeers does with its huge inventory. One possibility: DeBeers might fight fire with fire and start producing novelty or boutique artificial stones of some sort. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/20 "2005-10-11T15:26:02Z")
DeBeers dying? Given their unbelievable ability to sway people into paying immensely inflated prices for a _semi_-precious gem, they obviously know how survive in the face of overwhelming odds. Note that it took a _long_ time for cultured pearls to be accepted as classy jewelry. Even though they usually look better than natural pearls (despite what has been posted). The latter issue is one of the things that slowed down acceptance of cultured pearls but might not slow down acceptance of synthetic diamonds. A guy gives his gal a necklace of really great looking pearls. If fact, too great looking. Such a strand of natural pearls would in fact be 10x the guys expected lifetime earnings. Doubts set in. OTOH. Guy gives gal a nice 1/2 carat diamond engagement ring. Looks great. How is she going to tell it’s synthetic. Even if she’s a certified Gemologist with standard gear, she won’t be able to tell. She’d have to take it to a specialist with the Magic DeBeers Machine. How many people would doubt their SOs enough to do that? And would anyone trust such an evaluation? There’s already a lot of appraisal fraud by some jewelry stores. I remember a “60 Minutes” segment where they took rings to jewelers for appraisal and got back different, cheaper diamonds than what they took in. Maybe you took in a natural diamond and got back a synthetic one. I _hope_ DeBeers is in big trouble, but Evil Companies have ways of surviving. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620.md?page=2)