# Whither DeBeers in 50 years? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 10, 2005, 8:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620 "2005-10-10T20:08:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 19\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Cheesesteak](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cheesesteak/32/3694_2.png) [@Cheesesteak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cheesesteak)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 5:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/21 "2005-10-11T17:03:22Z")
I’m very interested to see what will happen over the years. Are people going to buy the “natural” diamond concept and be willing to pay a large premium for it? This is a bit different than Cubic Zirconia or Moissanite, it is chemically identical, and most likely superior in color and clarity to a natural diamond. A lower price will also let you get a larger diamond for the same or less money, which is nice if you are on a budget. Sure, it’s easy to pay the premium when you’re rich, but do you go for a 1/3rd carat natural diamond over a 1 carat synthetic for an engagement ring? I think a large segment of the population will be happy to get a lower cost synthetic, which will wreak havoc on the market dynamic. I think the market for natural diamonds will still exist, but be much smaller, focusing on premium jewelry. What would today go into a small engagement ring, or a small earring will now be part of a high end piece. Your smaller rings will fall by the wayside, since most people prefer a bit larger stone (3/4 to 1 carat) to the tiny stones that are the most that many young couples can afford. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 6:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/22 "2005-10-11T18:45:34Z")
[Hijack]I wonder how long before Pat Robertson (who has major money invested in African diamond mines) comes out with a fatwa regarding synthetic diamonds and how they are a harbinger of the End Times and must be destroyed? (This is the man who is rabidly pro-life in America but supports the “one child only” edict of the Chinese government where, coincidentally, he has major business interests.)[/Hijack] ---
**Author:** ![Millit\_the\_Frail](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@Millit\_the\_Frail](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Millit_the_Frail)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/23 "2005-10-11T21:39:37Z")
> [@ftg](#): > > OTOH. Guy gives gal a nice 1/2 carat diamond engagement ring. Looks great. How is she going to tell it’s synthetic. Even if she’s a certified Gemologist with standard gear, she won’t be able to tell. She’d have to take it to a specialist with the Magic DeBeers Machine. How many people would doubt their SOs enough to do that? The question for me is: would I really care if my husband had purchased me a synthetic diamond engagement ring? Nope. If you can’t tell by looking at it with the naked eye, then what’s the difference? And anyone who has the guts to ask about it is rude anyway. If I can afford more or nicer jewelry by going with synthetics, you better believe I’m getting a synthetic. And my husband will be told that it’s OK to buy me one. That’s actually a good policy. Women who might be getting engaged soon, tell your men if it’s OK to buy a synthetic. I’m of the opinion that men shouldn’t have to feel pressure to buy a natural stone or fear looking cheap. ---
**Author:** ![Annie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/858c86/32.png) [@Annie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/24 "2005-10-11T21:52:29Z")
[Again, pimping my nation.](http://www.cbc.ca/news/background/diamonds/) . 😉 ---
**Author:** ![mack](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/b19c9b/32.png) [@mack](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mack)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/25 "2005-10-11T22:03:40Z")
> [@Cheesesteak](#): > > Are people going to buy the “natural” diamond concept and be willing to pay a large premium for it? If they do, a way will have to be devised to let the casual observer know it’s natural. I mean if you can’t tell the difference between a big bucks natural and a not so big bucks manufactured, what’s the point of getting a natural (if not simply for the beauty of it)? ---
**Author:** ![Antigen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/848f3c/32.png) [@Antigen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Antigen)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/26 "2005-10-11T22:04:45Z")
Do people still feel a need for diamonds? I don’t even _like_ diamonds! Sure, they’re sparkly, but I just don’t see the big deal. Sapphires are gorgeous, and rubies are beautiful, and opals flash a million colors. Diamonds are lovely but I don’t see why they’re “better” than the other gems, especially in the whole “proving you love your woman” department. Please, people: Size of rock != Amount of love, ok? If you want to spend thousands of dollars showing me you love me, take me on a vacation so we can _both_ enjoy it! ---
**Author:** ![AskNott](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/asknott/32/5790_2.png) [@AskNott](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AskNott)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 10:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/27 "2005-10-11T22:13:29Z")
DeBeers has been suckering people into paying outrageous prices for not-at-all-rare crystals since before I was born. At least 90% of us believe it’s sensible to fork over two months’ salary to De Beers for an engagement ring at a time of your life when you can least afford to do that. All of those millions are going to support the exploitation of poor black miners. Doesn’t that bother anyone just a little bit? ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 10:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/28 "2005-10-11T22:34:35Z")
A special note to the “I’m happy if it looks like a natural diamond.” crowd. There are already fake diamonds that are so realistic that DeBeers had to come up with special equipment to test those. There was even a newer fake type announced a year+ ago that passed those machine tests. So you can get a really cheap “diamond” that _no one_ can tell is a fake just by looking at it on your finger. Agains, it has nothing to do with looks, rarity, etc. It’s all about marketing. ---
**Author:** ![What\_Exit](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/what_exit/32/10652_2.png) [@What\_Exit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/What_Exit)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 11:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/29 "2005-10-11T23:10:36Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > DeBeers has been suckering people into paying outrageous prices for not-at-all-rare crystals since before I was born. At least 90% of us believe it’s sensible to fork over two months’ salary to De Beers for an engagement ring at a time of your life when you can least afford to do that. > > All of those millions are going to support the exploitation of poor black miners. Doesn’t that bother anyone just a little bit? Bothers me a lot. It also bothers me that a lot of diamonds are blood diamonds and provide the money for a lot bush wars. I hate the fact the DeBeers has kept diamond artificially expensive, it should be cheaper for industrial use. Some of the synthetic processes will probably bring these costs way down without affecting the gem market however. Industrial diamond is usually way smaller than gem size. ---
**Author:** ![Cardinal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cardinal/32/4000_2.png) [@Cardinal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cardinal)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/30 "2005-10-11T23:18:53Z")
> [@AskNott](#): > > DeBeers has been suckering people into paying outrageous prices for not-at-all-rare crystals since before I was born. At least 90% of us believe it’s sensible to fork over two months’ salary to De Beers for an engagement ring at a time of your life when you can least afford to do that. I know that’s the amount they promote, but I’m pretty sure it’s a lot like “lather, rinse, repeat”. They figure there’s no point in promoting a small amount, so they’ll mention one that most people think is kind of extreme. This way when the guy is out shopping, he’ll buy one that’s maybe one month’s salary and think he’s already skimping on the cost. Personally, I don’t think I’ve ever known someone who paid even one month’s salary. That’s outrageous. I know that at the L.A. diamond district you can get decent engagement rings for less than $1000, and that’s a lot less than one month’s salary for quite a lot of people. ---
**Author:** ![Anne\_Neville](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Anne\_Neville](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anne_Neville)\ **Post date:** [October 11, 2005, 11:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/31 "2005-10-11T23:41:50Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > I now have an option, which means that I might end up getting married (women seem to be offended that I won’t buy diamonds). Not all of us. My engagement ring is a sapphire, because diamonds aren’t as pretty. I also like to be different. I even know that you can technically get married (spoiler box to protect those who may be shocked): without any engagement ring at all, like my grandparents did, and they were happily married for over 50 years > [@Antigen](#): > > Please, people: Size of rock != Amount of love, ok? Absolutely. That’s another reason I got a sapphire- I don’t want people checking out the size of my “rock” (how I _hate_ it when people refer to their engagement ring that way- the point is to have a beautiful piece of jewelry, not to have the biggest stone you can get!) and drawing conclusions about Mr. Neville’s income, or about how much he does or doesn’t love me. :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![Der\_Trihs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/der_trihs/32/233_2.png) [@Der\_Trihs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Der_Trihs)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 12:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/32 "2005-10-12T00:29:48Z")
In the long run, I think artificial diamonds will undermine the marketing-created mystique of diamonds, and cause fewer people to be willing to spend ridiculous amounts for them. Diamond is so useful that it’s likely to be used all over; the only real limit will be how cheap they can be made. Remember aluminum; before the electrolytic method of extracting it was discovered, it was more precious than gold. Now, we make beer cans out of it. Eventually, a diamond ring will have all the romance of a steel one. Hopefully, this will drive DeBeers into bankruptcy. With any luck, they’ll be driven into the wilderness and eaten by hyenas…well, OK, that won’t happen ( too bad ). ---
**Author:** ![jellyblue](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/e480ec/32.png) [@jellyblue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jellyblue)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 6:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/33 "2005-10-12T06:59:52Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > I tell myself that I refuse to buy a diamond simple because of Debeers. I now have an option, which means that I might end up getting married (women seem to be offended that I won’t buy diamonds). > > Thanks, I will spend twice the money on an artifical diamond, rather than have my money go support slavery. You could also try to go with a vintage ring, pre-DeBeers, assuming that you’ve got all these poor women lined up to marry and that’s all that is standing in your way 😉 . Vintage diamonds (and other stones for that matter) are just stunning, they’re often in one-of-a-kind settings and are SO much cheaper than a McRock… ---
**Author:** ![Jurph](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/50afbb/32.png) [@Jurph](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jurph)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 2:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/34 "2005-10-12T14:29:46Z")
I designed my wife’s ring, and had it cast in platinum. If I could have, I would have purchased a Canadian diamond or a synthetic diamond, but they were basically impossible to find… so I ended up buying a diamond with a “blood-free” certification. How much faith do I have in the industry’s self-policing? Very little. Did I hold my nose and get the diamond anyway? You bet. For our engagement, the stone was ornamentation for the ring, but the ring was the real centerpiece (I spent about half of my ring budget on having it cast and carved). It didn’t matter what I got… but nothing looked as good as the diamond. I know that most of my peer group would absolutely get a synthetic diamond. “What the market will bear” is a good _starting_ price point, but remember the idea of underselling, too. If DeBeers can sell a “natural” for $5000, SynthaGem (or whoever) can sell a “genuine” or “pure” diamond for $4000. Their profit margin is still huge, and if DeBeers decides to drop prices… then so will SynthaGem. SynthaGem should always be able to undersell DeBeers’ production costs. SynthaGem can also market their diamonds as “cruelty-free” or “renewable”… there’s a whole list of adjectives. Meanwhile, DeBeers has to get approval from the FTC to use words like “natural”. ---
**Author:** ![Sampiro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/2acd7d/32.png) [@Sampiro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sampiro)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/35 "2005-10-12T22:18:35Z")
Of course [Lifegem](http://www.lifegem.com/) might put them all out of business. ---
**Author:** ![GingerOfTheNorth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/cdc98d/32.png) [@GingerOfTheNorth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/GingerOfTheNorth)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 11:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/36 "2005-10-12T23:36:05Z")
> [@Epimetheus](#): > > Thanks, I will spend twice the money on an artifical diamond, rather than have my money go support slavery. I would like to take this opportunity to remind you Canada has a diamond mining industry now. Last I saw, nobody was working there in slave conditions. ---
**Author:** ![sleeepy2](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9a140/32.png) [@sleeepy2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sleeepy2)\ **Post date:** [October 12, 2005, 11:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/37 "2005-10-12T23:58:18Z")
I figure I’ll do my part by teaching any future offspring of mine that diamonds are a silly, expensive pile of nonsense. I told my wife long ago she can have any other gemstone her heart desires, but no diamonds. Fortunately my wifes mother gave me her old diamond (guess she was trying to hurry me along!) so I didn’t have to pay for one. ---
**Author:** ![danceswithcats](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9e8a1a/32.png) [@danceswithcats](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/danceswithcats)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/38 "2005-10-13T01:07:06Z")
> [@GingerOfTheNorth](#): > > I would like to take this opportunity to remind you Canada has a diamond mining industry now. Last I saw, nobody was working there in slave conditions. Who markets the Canadian stones? ---
**Author:** ![zagloba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/z/977dab/32.png) [@zagloba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/zagloba)\ **Post date:** [October 13, 2005, 2:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620/39 "2005-10-13T02:09:26Z")
> [@Sampiro](#): > > I’m asking because I don’t know- what did cultured pearls do to the value of “natural” pearls? I learned a little about this recently from an unlikely source: _The Prize_, by Daniel Yergin, which is a history of the petroleum industry. In the 1902s, Kuwait’s number one industry and principal source of foreign exchange was trade in natural pearls brought up by divers in the Persian Gulf. A noodle vendor, Kokichi Mikimoto, after many years of intensive effort, developed the technique for cultivating pearls artificially. By 1930, production of Japanese cultured pearls was so high that within a few years the demand for natural pearls was all but destroyed, devasting Kuwait’s economy. Hence Kuwait’s big push to bring in the British and Americans to develop its oil industry. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-debeers-in-50-years/325620.md?page=1)