# Whither Scotland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261 "2014-09-02T16:28:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 50
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 3:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/981 "2014-09-19T03:58:06Z")
With more than half the votes counted “No” is leading by eight points. This is, to be honest, precisely the result I expected. It was always inevitable that polls would exaggerrate the “Yes” vote by 2-4 points. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/982 "2014-09-19T04:00:11Z")
If they were sensible they’d slash the taxes on whiskey and tobacco to become a magnet for people in europe who prefer cheap stuff. Anyway this is delicious: As Alex Salmond’s backyard of Aberdeenshire appears to have gone 60% No, one of his flunkies rationalizes it thus: \*SNP MSP Stewart Stevenson said: "At the end of the day, you always prefer to win but we always knew the size of the mountain we had to climb in Aberdeenshire. "The challenge now bluntly in Aberdeenshire and elsewhere is for those who’ve won the referendum to deliver on the promises that they made to the people of Scotland. "I think that’s actually a very substantial challenge indeed for the No side. They’ve set themselves an ambitious target for moving forward with new powers for Scotland. "In Aberdeenshire we’ve always seen it as a tough call, and if Aberdeenshire shows us what’s happening nationally, and I don’t know what the result is going to be, it delivers the challenge to our opponents. That’s the bottom line. “Nobody can walk away from this campaign, whatever the result is, without picking up a challenge.”\* **[Independent.ie](http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/scotland-referendum/alex-salmonds-party-disappointed-with-defeat-in-his-constituency-of-aberdeenshire-30599241.html)**( Irish ) One so rarely sees a politician dribbling incoherently in public. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/983 "2014-09-19T04:00:22Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > It is also proof that social media campaigns do not as yet translate into real world activism. Surely you mean “yet more proof”. Social media is generally young people heavy (who are less likely to vote historically) and people into social media are often deluded into thinking that online comments are as good as going out and voting. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/984 "2014-09-19T04:09:20Z")
It would be a good idea for future ruling Archons to persuade young rebels that it is _entirely_ the same thing. Just sit back now and await inevitable victory… ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/985 "2014-09-19T04:15:09Z")
> [@Try2B\_Comprehensive](#): > > Surplus oil revenue? > > It depends on how many billions of barrels we’re talking about, and how it is managed. And the price of oil. Thats an awful lot of unknowns to be basing any sort of economic or fiscal policies on. I suspect an Independent Scotland would be either marginally better off or marginally worse off than a Scotland in the Union. I don’t think we could afford an oil fund _and_ high public spending - at least without corresponding increases in taxation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/986 "2014-09-19T04:15:52Z")
Looks like No won, yes? The Inverclyde Council vote should be noted: 62,481 votes cast. 86 vote difference. NO 27,329 50.08% YES 27,243 49.92% ---
**Author:** ![Duckster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/duckster/32/1244_2.png) [@Duckster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Duckster)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/987 "2014-09-19T04:20:06Z")
> [@](#): > > The BBC forecasts that Scotland has voted against becoming an independent country by a projected 55% to 45%. > > NO 1,305,388 54.21 > YES 1,102,788 45.79 > TARGET TO WIN 1,822,942 N/A > After 24 of 32 counts [Scottish independence referendum - Results - BBC News](http://www.bbc.com/news/events/scotland-decides/results) ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/988 "2014-09-19T04:21:26Z")
> [@Claverhouse](#): > > **If they were sensible they’d slash the taxes on whiskey** and tobacco to become a magnet for people in europe who prefer cheap stuff. > > Anyway this is delicious: As Alex Salmond’s backyard of Aberdeenshire appears to have gone 60% No, one of his flunkies rationalizes it thus: > > \*SNP MSP Stewart Stevenson said: "At the end of the day, you always prefer to win but we always knew the size of the mountain we had to climb in Aberdeenshire. > > "The challenge now bluntly in Aberdeenshire and elsewhere is for those who’ve won the referendum to deliver on the promises that they made to the people of Scotland. > > "I think that’s actually a very substantial challenge indeed for the No side. They’ve set themselves an ambitious target for moving forward with new powers for Scotland. > > "In Aberdeenshire we’ve always seen it as a tough call, and if Aberdeenshire shows us what’s happening nationally, and I don’t know what the result is going to be, it delivers the challenge to our opponents. That’s the bottom line. > > “Nobody can walk away from this campaign, whatever the result is, without picking up a challenge.”\* > **[Independent.ie](http://www.independent.ie/irish-news/scotland-referendum/alex-salmonds-party-disappointed-with-defeat-in-his-constituency-of-aberdeenshire-30599241.html)**( Irish ) > One so rarely sees a politician dribbling incoherently in public. Our taxation on the Whisky industry is a real bugbear of mine. I almost welcome the day when it is destroyed by competition. Well, perhaps not destroyed, but has enough pressure put on it to need reduced taxation. We really should have tourists by the hundreds of thousands coming over here for cheap whisky. Instead, our Govt(both British and Scottish) see the industry as a cashcow for tax revenue. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/989 "2014-09-19T04:35:19Z")
I got a ten on that quiz, FWIW. Still looking like NO is winning. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 4:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/990 "2014-09-19T04:44:32Z")
> [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](#): > > I got a ten on that quiz, FWIW. > > Still looking like NO is winning. It’s all but over. No real Yes heartlands remain. At least no significant ones. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/991 "2014-09-19T05:05:53Z")
> [@An\_Gadai](#): > > It is also proof that social media campaigns do not as yet translate into real world activism. > [@CarnalK](#): > > Surely you mean “yet more proof”. Social media is generally young people heavy (who are less likely to vote historically) and people into social media are often deluded into thinking that online comments are as good as going out and voting. Oh, c’mon guys. YES SCOTLAND hasn’t won, but as the campaign has progressed they have improved their position steadily, and they came closer to winning than I think anyone would have predicted eighteen months or two years ago. And a lot of commentators put this down, at least partly, to a campaign which which was much more enthusiastic, and much better organised, than the BETTER TOGETHER offering. As for campaigning not translating into actual voting, this referendum has seen the highest ever voter registration in Scotland, and - by a considerable margin - the highest ever turnout percentage of registered voters since mass suffrage in Scotland. Whatever other criticisms you might make of the campaign, this one just flies in the face of the evidence. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/992 "2014-09-19T05:16:32Z")
My prediction: a tonne of people are going to go nuts on the maxdevo. "No only won because you promised virtual independence. ". ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/993 "2014-09-19T05:20:43Z")
> [@Velocity](#): > > Would be a great plot twist if 12 hours from now, we found out that the UK had declared independence from Scotland, rather than vice versa… Right! I have no dog in this fight, but I don’t understand the mentality of giving something to a group to maintain union. They want it or they don’t. So either you are no longer on equal ground or you weren’t to start with and the threat shouldn’t have been necessary. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/994 "2014-09-19T05:21:01Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Oh, c’mon guys. YES SCOTLAND hasn’t won, but as the campaign has progressed they have improved their position steadily, and they came closer to winning than I think anyone would have predicted eighteen months or two years ago. And a lot of commentators put this down, at least partly, to a campaign which which was much more enthusiastic, and much better organised, than the BETTER TOGETHER offering. > > As for campaigning not translating into actual voting, this referendum has seen the highest ever voter registration in Scotland, and - by a considerable margin - the highest ever turnout percentage of registered voters since mass suffrage in Scotland. Whatever other criticisms you might make of the campaign, this one just flies in the face of the evidence. I should have been clearer. If I’d gone by what I experienced on social media I would have predicted a 90% Yes. Granted, most people I follow online are not Scottish but a decent cohort are and they were all Yes voters and shared Yes opinions of swathes of other Scottish people. I just meant that (superficial anyway) social media analysis may be wildly inaccurate in such things. I should not have used the term activism. ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/995 "2014-09-19T05:23:17Z")
[QUOTE=UDS] Oh, c’mon guys. YES SCOTLAND hasn’t won, but as the campaign has progressed they have improved their position steadily, and they came closer to winning than I think anyone would have predicted eighteen months or two years ago. And a lot of commentators put this down, at least partly, to a campaign which which was much more enthusiastic, and much better organised, than the BETTER TOGETHER offering. As for campaigning not translating into actual voting, this referendum has seen the highest ever voter registration in Scotland, and - by a considerable margin - the highest ever turnout percentage of registered voters since mass suffrage in Scotland. Whatever other criticisms you might make of the campaign, this one just flies in the face of the evidence. [/QUOTE] Well, if NO SCOTLAND was so badly run, they also managed to get more people out to support _No_. So either the YES SCOTLAND campaign got people to vote against _Yes_ or the NO SCOTLAND people energized more people better to support the status quo. Anyway, I hope the thing is forgotten soon: Scotland will get more devolution, and allegedly so will others, and nationalism will go quiet for a few years. Mr. Salmond said if YES lost, it would be unchallenged for a generation; however this was clarified to mean until he stepped down in 2016. There’s no point in triumphalism nor recrimination: I hope Salmond is neither blamed nor pushed out. He did his best. Had the Scots gone the other way, though, Cameron would definitely have been kicked out; and this not happening makes any victory as bittersweet as all these affairs. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/996 "2014-09-19T05:30:29Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > Oh, c’mon guys. YES SCOTLAND hasn’t won, but as the campaign has progressed they have improved their position steadily, and they came closer to winning than I think anyone would have predicted eighteen months or two years ago. And a lot of commentators put this down, at least partly, to a campaign which which was much more enthusiastic, and much better organised, than the BETTER TOGETHER offering. Yes. The yes campaign gained maybe 4 points over 18 or 24 months. Kudos. > [@](#): > > As for campaigning not translating into actual voting, this referendum has seen the highest ever voter registration in Scotland, and - by a considerable margin - the highest ever turnout percentage of registered voters since mass suffrage in Scotland. Whatever other criticisms you might make of the campaign, this one just flies in the face of the evidence. “Even though we lost, we raised the level of the debate” is classic political response to a loss, fyi. But the fact of the matter is that this was a big deal and the yes campaign can’t lay claim to the voter turnout. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/997 "2014-09-19T05:51:35Z")
The “No” campaign won by (last check) 10.5 percentage points. That’s a thumping by any standard. And where the turnout was higher than 80% No always won. ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/998 "2014-09-19T06:15:45Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > “Even though we lost, we raised the level of the debate” is classic political response to a loss, fyi. But the fact of the matter is that this was a big deal and the yes campaign can’t lay claim to the voter turnout. I agree. But equally we can’t say that the YES campaign _failed_ to get voters out, which is what I initially understood you to be suggesting. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/999 "2014-09-19T06:22:20Z")
> [@UDS](#): > > I agree. But equally we can’t say that the YES campaign _failed_ to get voters out, which is what I initially understood you to be suggesting. I don’t see how you could have understood me that way. What you quoted was pretty explicitly talking about social media participation. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Pig](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/c57346/32.png) [@Little\_Pig](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Pig)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 6:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1000 "2014-09-19T06:30:06Z")
84% of the electorate turned out and the difference was less than 400K votes. Impressive indeed. As I mentioned above, Inverclyde turn out was 62,481. No : 27,329 Yes: 27,243 A difference of just 86 votes! With numbers like those you just know that this issue cut straight through households. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261.md?page=49) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261.md?page=51)