# Whither Scotland? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [September 2, 2014, 4:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261 "2014-09-02T16:28:58Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 53
**Author:** ![LC\_Strawhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/e19adc/32.png) [@LC\_Strawhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LC_Strawhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 5:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1041 "2014-09-19T17:30:21Z")
> [@PaulParkhead](#): > > Funnily enough, we had someone in one of the other threads on this topic argue that “No” voters were likely to be swayed by more a generous welfare system. Yeah, admittedly the thought processes of Yes or No voters were (and still are) quite nebulous in many ways. It was also debated whether large landowners would be motivated to vote Yes or No. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 6:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1042 "2014-09-19T18:25:21Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > YES. AND… > > The point is that the Labour strongholds voted disproportionately against their party’s views as did the SNP strongholds. Given the breadth and depth of the No vote, your point can’t possibly be correct. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 6:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1043 "2014-09-19T18:53:28Z")
> [@Frank](#): > > Given the breadth and depth of the No vote, your point can’t possibly be correct. Look at the map. ---
**Author:** ![Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a8b319/32.png) [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuzzy_wuzzy)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 7:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1044 "2014-09-19T19:20:00Z")
> [@LC\_Strawhouse](#): > > Maybe (some) YES voters and Labour voters are both easily swayed by promises of higher welfare (I mean “giro”) checks? This is true to a degree. Though that rallying cry was sold to us as increased public spending in an independent Scotland, and scare stories of nasty Westminster spending cuts if we voted No. ---
**Author:** ![Katriona](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/katriona/32/113_2.png) [@Katriona](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Katriona)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1045 "2014-09-19T19:25:19Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Welfare for everyone! Welfare for some…tiny saltires for others! ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 11:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1046 "2014-09-19T23:47:58Z")
> [@Baron\_Greenback](#): > > You can’t just leave that dangling there man! 😃 I had a classmate who had lived in Aberdeen for a while and he was an Aberdeen supporter, that was the heyday of the Dons. Wasn’t easy to follow Scottish football in Karachi back then. No internet, no cable TV, even the BBC world service was rather spotty in coverage. Mostly I just took a shine to the name as a wee lad 🙂 and it sort of grew from there. My friend and I would go to the British Council library each Wednesday to read the Sunday papers which had the Saturday match reports. If our teams had the Sunday game we’d go on Thursday so we could have the Monday papers as well. Was on the plane with a Scot on a trip from the states to London. He was absolutely flabbergasted at how much I knew about Scottish football from 1978 to 1985. Outside that window, I knew nothing. ---
**Author:** ![Frank](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Frank](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Frank)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1047 "2014-09-19T23:54:30Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Look at the map. No, YOU look at the map. You lost. You lost across all of Scotland, and you lost by a margin that is not negligible. Those who expect Scots to come back together after this are definitely not looking at people like you. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2014, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1048 "2014-09-19T23:55:20Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Not at all. My original desire was for Devo max. So you voted “no” then? After all “the Vow” was supposedly such a game changer and you wanted devomax originally… ---
**Author:** ![Mighty\_Mouse](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mighty_mouse/32/7776_2.png) [@Mighty\_Mouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mighty_Mouse)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1049 "2014-09-20T00:00:52Z")
> [@Fuzzy\_wuzzy](#): > > Have you much competition? 🙂 There were a large number of people in the private school set who had spent some time in the UK, and came back as followers of one club or another. Unlike these days of global over-exposure, where ever football fan in Pakistan seems to be a Man Utd, Real Madrid or Barcelona supporter, in those days the teams people supported would be the local ones to where they lived. Lots of Leeds United, Bradford City, Birmingham City, Villa and Wolves followers, as those were areas with large Pakistani populations. Pakistan Television (one channel in those days) would show either a First Division match or an FA cup tie on Friday mornings (Friday was the weekly holiday). It was must see TV for most people I knew. ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 12:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1050 "2014-09-20T00:04:21Z")
So, any car bombings yet? d&r ---
**Author:** ![Baron\_Greenback](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/baron_greenback/32/48_2.png) [@Baron\_Greenback](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Baron_Greenback)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1051 "2014-09-20T01:14:49Z")
> [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > He was absolutely flabbergasted at how much I knew about Scottish football from 1978 to 1985. Outside that window, I knew nothing. That was a good window. Aberdeen beat Real Madrid in a Euro final, Dundee United beat Barcelona home and away (and not for the first time). Thanks. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 1:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1052 "2014-09-20T01:46:11Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > So, any car bombings yet? > d&r Naw but some street violence in Glasgow. Belligerent No crew bullying Yes folk and Nazis salutes and batterings and stabbing, all that. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1053 "2014-09-20T02:04:00Z")
_The Onion_ on a major crisis averted by the Scottish vote to preserve the UK: [Ugly Custody Battle Over Ian McKellen Narrowly Avoided](http://www.theonion.com/articles/ugly-custody-battle-over-ian-mckellen-narrowly-avo,36968/) ---
**Author:** ![Claverhouse](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/13edae/32.png) [@Claverhouse](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Claverhouse)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 2:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1054 "2014-09-20T02:07:50Z")
That’s an average night in Glasgow. ---
**Author:** ![Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7cd45c/32.png) [@Elendil\_s\_Heir](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Elendil_s_Heir)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 2:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1055 "2014-09-20T02:10:23Z")
And HM has risen to the occasion: [http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/queen-accepts-scotlands-apology](http://www.newyorker.com/humor/borowitz-report/queen-accepts-scotlands-apology) ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1056 "2014-09-20T03:00:29Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > So you voted “no” then? After all “the Vow” was supposedly such a game changer and you wanted devomax originally… No. I voted YES because of the intense negativity of the NOI campaign and the fact that it is going to be a long hard fight to ensure that The Vow is kept. As Salmond said it will be necessary to keep Westminster’s feet to the fire.I see two futures- one in which The Vow is kept to and the whole Independence Question is settled for a generation, or major reneging on it and a growth of feeling for a further independence/devomax referendum. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1057 "2014-09-20T03:06:54Z")
How about minor reneging? After all, we both know “yes” wasn’t going to keep all it’s promises. But I’ll note that The Vow can’t have been that big a game changer when it didn’t even change your vote. It was exactly what you wanted but nope you just didn’t like the no campaign. ---
**Author:** ![Pjen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Pjen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pjen)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 3:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1058 "2014-09-20T03:52:42Z")
> [@CarnalK](#): > > How about minor reneging? After all, we both know “yes” wasn’t going to keep all it’s promises. > > But I’ll note that The Vow can’t have been that big a game changer when it didn’t even change your vote. It was exactly what you wanted but nope you just didn’t like the no campaign. A lot of people were swayed by the Vow. Several of the people I had been gently persuading through Social Media decided to vote NO after The Vow was announced- it had a large effect on people whose view of the situation was purely financial. ---
**Author:** ![CarnalK](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/carnalk/32/486_2.png) [@CarnalK](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CarnalK)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 4:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1059 "2014-09-20T04:06:29Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > A lot of people were swayed by the Vow. Several of the people I had been gently persuading through Social Media decided to vote NO after The Vow was announced- it had a large effect on people whose view of the situation was purely financial. Says you. The fact of the matter is that polls pretty consistently showed no winning. The final tally isn’t far off of polling results 2 years ago. If The Vow had any major impact no should have won by more. Istm. Btw, this capital t capital v thing sounds like it was God talking to Noah. A tad over the top for a last minute political campaign promise. ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [September 20, 2014, 4:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261/1060 "2014-09-20T04:16:35Z")
The problems with Devolution is that an English Parliament will basically be a UK Parliament without the foreign policy powers. English only votes are a non starter, you could have a Party being a Government for UK affairs and a minority in other ones. London style devolution to cities might work: But if you can give it to Manchester, Birmingham and Leeds why not to Glasgow, Belfast and Cardiff. Regions? Been rejected. > [@Mighty\_Mouse](#): > > There were a large number of people in the private school set who had spent some time in the UK, and came back as followers of one club or another. Unlike these days of global over-exposure, where ever football fan in Pakistan seems to be a Man Utd, Real Madrid or Barcelona supporter, in those days the teams people supported would be the local ones to where they lived. Lots of Leeds United, Bradford City, Birmingham City, Villa and Wolves followers, as those were areas with large Pakistani populations. > > Pakistan Television (one channel in those days) would show either a First Division match or an FA cup tie on Friday mornings (Friday was the weekly holiday). It was must see TV for most people I knew. I remember watching European Cups in the late eighties as a wee lad with my Dad, I remember Milan absolutely pasting sides in a Final. Became a fan then and have remained. My Dad was a bit worried I was liking football more than cricket. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261.md?page=52) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whither-scotland/697261.md?page=54)