# Whitman against Brown in California **URL:** \ **Category:** Politics & Elections\ **Created:** [September 16, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022 "2010-09-16T22:14:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![conway](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ec9cab/32.png) [@conway](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/conway)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 10:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/41 "2010-09-23T22:14:40Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > I got a chuckle out of Meg’s recent assessment of Fresno, _"Fresno looks like Detroit. It’s awful.‘’_ That’s sure to win her some friends in the central valley! Honestly, it’s more a dig at Detroit. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 11:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/42 "2010-09-23T23:00:23Z")
> [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > I’ll be honest: as a Californian who is generally pretty well versed in politics, I’m not anywhere near as hip to the specifics of this race as I should be. Any Dopers want to kindly give me the run down on the key points between the two? Or why you’re leaning toward one over the other? > > In some ways, from what I’ve seen at least, Whitman seems like a good businesswoman who has some unique ideas. That said, I acknowledge that might be her ads working on me. Brown . . . I don’t know much about him, since he was our fearless leader before I was politically aware. I know why I’m uninformed. All I’ve seen is negative campaigns from Meg along with her promises to return the promise to the promise land, sans any viable plan for doing so. I’m too lazy to research the issues because I can’t trust anyone who spends over 100 million for a job. She’s too smart (I think) not to have found some form of return for the money she’s spending should she get the job. I remember when Jerry was governor he rode around in a 8 year old Plymouth instead of a government limo, and he shunned the gov. mansion for an apartment. He’ll probably have to this time as the state still has no budget - day 86 I believe. ---
**Author:** ![NAF1138](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/naf1138/32/3245_2.png) [@NAF1138](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/NAF1138)\ **Post date:** [September 23, 2010, 11:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/43 "2010-09-23T23:29:26Z")
> [@Chefguy](#): > > What the hell would she know about being mayor of a city like Oakland or governor of (what used to be) one of the largest economies on the planet, particularly during times of economic chaos? Has he been ineffective as state AG? Brown is a cost-cutting mo-fo and has the track record to prove it. How does little miss billionaire’s spending record stack up? These are the main reasons why I am voting for Brown. Well, those and the fact that Whitman seems to be very vaguely evil, but I can’t back that up with any sort of facts. 😉 It was actually her campaign to gain the nomination that made me dislike her. The campaign against Brown is just more of the same. ---
**Author:** ![gonzomax](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e8c25b/32.png) [@gonzomax](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzomax)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/44 "2010-09-24T00:09:36Z")
[http://www.laprogressive.com/economic-equality/meg-whitman-carly-fiorina-layoffs/](http://www.laprogressive.com/economic-equality/meg-whitman-carly-fiorina-layoffs/) Nowadays ,when you see businessman, think outsourcer and tax cuts for the rich. Think kill the environment for profit, and you have Whitman. She will charbroil Brown with dirty political ads for the next 6 weeks. ---
**Author:** ![Saint\_Cad](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/saint_cad/32/18907_2.png) [@Saint\_Cad](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Saint_Cad)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/45 "2010-09-24T19:37:29Z")
> [@Nametag](#): > > Whitman ran for the Republican nomination on jobs, education, and illegal immigration. She’s been backpedaling on the immigration front, getting some flack from early supporters, and I suspect she never really gave a crap about it. Her jobs platform is largely anti-regulation, her big target being a recent global warming law she wants to roll back. Her “fix education” program highlights reducing waste, encouraging charter schools, and grading schools A-F. She also want to transfer $1 billion in “welfare reform” savings to the state university systems. Considering that Sacramento has been stealing money from the education budget to pay for other things for decades, that last part is justified. ---
**Author:** ![descamisado](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e480ec/32.png) [@descamisado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/descamisado)\ **Post date:** [September 24, 2010, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/46 "2010-09-24T19:37:45Z")
> [@blondebear](#): > > I got a chuckle out of Meg’s recent assessment of Fresno, _"Fresno looks like Detroit. It’s awful.‘’_ That’s sure to win her some friends in the central valley! > [@DiosaBellissima](#): > > Right? Listen, lady- if anybody will win you this election, it’ll be us (and I guess Orange County…maybe). > [@conway](#): > > Honestly, it’s more a dig at Detroit. Regardless of what she meant, it was an insult to both cities and she had to [[http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/24/whitman-backtracks-from-calling-fresno-awful/](http://politicalticker.blogs.cnn.com/2010/09/24/whitman-backtracks-from-calling-fresno-awful/)"]walk the comment back]([url) today. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 6:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/47 "2010-09-26T18:35:40Z")
I’m a Californian. I recently moved from Los Angeles to the Silicon Valley. As I changed my voter registration location, I also decided to change my party affiliation. Since I was 18, I have been registered as a Dem. I am now registered as an independent. My number one criteria when deciding how to vote will be based on any candidate’s knowledge/experience with real life economics. Forget global warming/climate change. Screw prop 8 and don’t ask don’t tell. Stem cell … whatever. Gun control … don’t care. Abortion pro/con is not part of my criteria. Dem or Rep or Tea … not an issue. If any particular issue has a real impact on California economy, then it’s worth my attention. We’re headed for a come-to-Jesus economic crisis in this beautiful state. The bill has come due. Jerry or Meg? Don’t know yet. Which one won’t borrow/spend us into the toilet? ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 6:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/48 "2010-09-26T18:44:21Z")
> [@](#): > > My number one criteria when deciding how to vote will be based on any candidate’s knowledge/experience with real life economics. > > Forget global warming/climate change… I can’t think of any other issue that would have nearly as great an impact on real life economics as climate change. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 7:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/49 "2010-09-26T19:09:43Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I can’t think of any other issue that would have nearly as great an impact on real life economics as climate change. Unemployment in California. > **[California's unemployment third-highest in the nation](https://www.latimes.com/archives/blogs/money-company/story/2010-09-21/californias-unemployment-third-highest-in-the-nation)** > > This article was originally on a blog post platform and may be missing photos, graphics or links. and … CalPERS, the State employee retirement fund. Jabba the Hut. We are seeing layoffs of current public employees (police/fire) in order to pay benefits for retirees. As California experiences unemployment/loss of state income, California never loses the CalPERS debt. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/50 "2010-09-26T19:46:22Z")
California’s problem is not its elected officials. Its problem is its voters and its ballot proposition system. No one can run a government when the system prevents tax hikes. And what exactly is the solution to the public employees’ retirement problem? Take away the benefits that they had contracted for? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 26, 2010, 8:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/51 "2010-09-26T20:22:42Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > California’s problem is not its elected officials. Its problem is its voters and its ballot proposition system. No one can run a government when the system prevents tax hikes. It’s kind of hard to consider tax hikes when California is currently experiencing 12.4% unemployment (EDD 9/17/10). _SACRAMENTO – California’s unemployment rate increased to 12.4 percent in August, and nonfarm payroll jobs decreased by 33,500 during the month, according to data released today by the California Employment Development Department (EDD) from two separate surveys._ I’m already paying 9.75% sales tax, auto fees that are among the highest in the nation, and a state income tax that is over-withholding - yeah - deliberately withholding more than they know is necessary to meet the tax obligation so they can temporarily meet their needs. State workers are taking 3 Fridays off a month (CalTrans) as are many county and local municipal employees. Preventing a tax hike is a good thing. CA needs to learn to live on a budget. Show me a politician who understands that and I’ll color in their box on Nov 2nd. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 1:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/52 "2010-09-27T01:22:57Z")
> [@](#): > > ca needs to learn to live on a budget. Show me a politician who understands that and i’ll color in their box on nov 2nd. Ditto ---
**Author:** ![Cyberhwk](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7993a0/32.png) [@Cyberhwk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cyberhwk)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 4:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/53 "2010-09-27T04:40:32Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > CA needs to learn to live on a budget. Show me a politician who understands that and I’ll color in their box on Nov 2nd. If that’s been your approach, it’s been a LONG TIME since you’ve voted, hasn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/54 "2010-09-27T15:08:26Z")
> [@Cyberhwk](#): > > > [@Morgenstern](#): > > > > CA needs to learn to live on a budget. Show me a politician who understands that and I’ll color in their box on Nov 2nd. > > If that’s been your approach, it’s been a LONG TIME since you’ve voted, hasn’t it? I keep trying but they (the politicians) keep disappointing. What is today, day 89 without a state budget? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/55 "2010-09-27T15:32:33Z")
> [@Morgenstern](#): > > Preventing a tax hike is a good thing. CA needs to learn to live on a budget. Show me a politician who understands that and I’ll color in their box on Nov 2nd. Balancing the budget at this time is the very last thing California needs. It would kick off a depression. Government isn’t a household budget. The candidate who thinks this is the solution should be locked in a mental hospital. ---
**Author:** ![jsc1953](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/5daacb/32.png) [@jsc1953](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jsc1953)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/56 "2010-09-27T15:40:49Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > > [@Morgenstern](#): > > > > Preventing a tax hike is a good thing. CA needs to learn to live on a budget. Show me a politician who understands that and I’ll color in their box on Nov 2nd. > > Balancing the budget at this time is the very last thing California needs. It would kick off a depression. Government isn’t a household budget. The candidate who thinks this is the solution should be locked in a mental hospital. California is required by its constitution to have a balanced budget, so we have one every year, eventually. The problem is that it requires a supermajority to raise taxes, so that isn’t going to happen, and the Democratic majority will not cut spending. So they balance the budget every year by borrowing and accounting tricks. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 27, 2010, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/57 "2010-09-27T15:50:30Z")
> [@jsc1953](#): > > California is required by its constitution to have a balanced budget So do several other states. Worst idea in the world. These things get enacted because voters are ignorant fools. > [@](#): > > The problem is that it requires a supermajority to raise taxes Again, a restriction enacted by an ignorant electorate. > [@](#): > > the Democratic majority will not cut spending. They aren’t refusing to cut spending simply because they’re stubborn. Their constituents _want_ the benefits of the spending programs. The basic problem here isn’t because elected officials are obstinate, it’s because the ballot proposition system has resulted in a foolish set of restrictions on the legislature. The government should have the flexibility to determine budgetary policy. And then if the voters find that the government programs they’re getting isn’t worth what they are paying in taxes, they should make that known by voting for someone else the next time rather than voting for the same people every time but tying their hands in a way that makes the state impossible to govern. California’s problems are not going to be solved by elected officials because the ballot proposition has taken away from them any meaningful power to do anything. The only long-term solution is for California’s electorate has to un-elect itself by getting rid of the ballot proposition system and the crazy restrictions on the legislature to determine budgetary policy. I say again: California’s problems aren’t because its government officials are defective, but because Californians as a whole are defective. They have exactly the government they created and the government they deserve. ---
**Author:** ![pinkyvee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/6de8d8/32.png) [@pinkyvee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pinkyvee)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/58 "2010-09-28T15:49:53Z")
“Californians as a whole are defective” (acsenray) [http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=uspopulation&met=population&idim=state:06000&dl=en&hl=en&q=california+population](http://www.google.com/publicdata?ds=uspopulation&met=population&idim=state:06000&dl=en&hl=en&q=california+population) How many do you suggest we eliminate? ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/59 "2010-09-28T16:01:48Z")
Who said anything about eliminating them? I just want to divert their whining about politicians. ---
**Author:** ![Morgenstern](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f9ae1b/32.png) [@Morgenstern](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgenstern)\ **Post date:** [September 28, 2010, 4:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022/60 "2010-09-28T16:52:26Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > Who said anything about eliminating them? I just want to divert their whining about politicians. You mean the very same politicians who continue to draw a full salary while other state employees are forced to take up to 3 days a month off without pay? Or do you mean those vendors who are issued IOU’s from the state for the services they provide(d)? Or maybe the deliberate over-withholding the state is doing as a means of obtaining money to run the government? Heaven forbid anyone whines about any of this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/whitman-against-brown-in-california/554022.md?page=4)