# Who am I working for anyway? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [March 23, 2013, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748 "2013-03-23T16:02:13Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/41 "2013-03-25T04:45:23Z")
> [@HotDogWater](#): > > According to _Ancient Aliens_, we were monkeys until the aliens visited and crossbred with us, turning us into humans. We then mined the gold they needed for fuel. And in the future, they will come back (there are all sorts of landmarks we built, like the pyramids and stonehenge, to help guide them) to refill their tanks. What I got out of that TV program was that they created us to work for them and _just left_. They didn’t care what happened to us. They used us for their purpose and just threw us away. They got what they were after and had no plans to ever return. What took place after they had gone was of no consequence to them and we just further evolved to the point where we are now. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/42 "2013-03-25T04:52:15Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > I find it amazing that people just seem to be content to go about their lives without even thinking about the fact that nobody has any idea as to who (what) we are, what we are doing here and how we got here. Certain religions will tell you they have _the answer_ , but if you pin them down, they will have to admit that they really haven’t spoken to God and they actually don’t know what is going on. > > One thing that I notice is that we do seem to have a tremendous drive within us to create more of us and do things for “the children”, but these same “children” eventually grow up and have offspring of their own whom they nurture and sacrifice for and it goes on and on and on…, but to what end??? It’s not so much that we ignore the question as we realize there is no question. Things exist because they exist not because they have a reason for existing. Trying to invent a reason for something that doesn’t have or need a reason is a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/43 "2013-03-25T04:59:36Z")
> [@Measure\_for\_Measure](#): > > Agreed. But seeing as that is no fun at all, a few months ago I pondered how we could make this Illuminati thing work, at least in fiction. The first step is to posit a low-mana world, as opposed to the zero mana world we have now. The organization needs to be both secret and powerful, but not so powerful that secrecy is unnecessary. So they have to have some sort of Achilles Heel. > > They Live! provides one scenario: the Illuminati are mind altering aliens that fear insurrection if their secret is leaked. My fave is that they are a cabal of creatures immune to aging and disease who fear capture and dismemberment. So they hire… _Ninjas_ (secret ninjas) who do their bidding, pulling strings and accumulating favors. An hereditary clan serving a near-immortal cabal. The problem is what’s the point in being the most powerful being on the planet if nobody knows you are the most powerful? Suppose you’re secretly running the world. Why would you remain in hiding and set up governments that are supposedly in charge of things. They’re the ones visibly in charge and giving orders. What power do you have? You appoint Barack Obama to be President of the United States and give him your first order. What do you do if he laughs in your face? You can’t order people to arrest him and replace him with a different President - as far as everyone knows, he’s the guy in charge and you’re nobody. ---
**Author:** ![grude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47774/32.png) [@grude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/grude)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/44 "2013-03-25T05:12:40Z")
I know we are essentially talking about a philosophical point here but I have to do it… Could someone please provide ANYTHING remotely resembling scientific evidence that indicates the royal we are genetically engineered alien slaves? Anything, the fossil record should be really spotty if this is true, but it isn’t. Humans don’t just pop out of nowhere with no evidence for ancestors. So what were neanderthals? What were earlier hominids? Earlier versions? The aliens only lived in Africa and didn’t mind if escaped human slaves spread out around the globe in waves? Am I applying logic to the ramblings of a guy on basic cable who probably couldn’t define logic? ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/45 "2013-03-25T13:42:01Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > The problem is what’s the point in being the most powerful being on the planet if nobody knows you are the most powerful? > > Suppose you’re secretly running the world. Why would you remain in hiding and set up governments that are supposedly in charge of things. They’re the ones visibly in charge and giving orders. What power do you have? You appoint Barack Obama to be President of the United States and give him your first order. What do you do if he laughs in your face? You can’t order people to arrest him and replace him with a different President - as far as everyone knows, he’s the guy in charge and you’re nobody. You have him assassinated. Happens all the time. ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/46 "2013-03-25T13:46:17Z")
> [@Oly](#): > > Not to mention [They Live](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0096256/). Yeah, I know. I try not to remind people of that movie, even though it’s more apt. ---
**Author:** ![friedo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/8edcca/32.png) [@friedo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/friedo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/47 "2013-03-25T13:50:02Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > One thing that I notice is that we do seem to have a tremendous drive within us to create more of us and do things for “the children”, but these same “children” eventually grow up and have offspring of their own whom they nurture and sacrifice for and it goes on and on and on…, but to what end??? Why does there have to be an end? This morning I decided to wear a blue shirt. _To what end?!!!???!_ [sub]Maybe because I also wore black pants.[/sub] ---
**Author:** ![Amateur\_Barbarian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/59ef9b/32.png) [@Amateur\_Barbarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Amateur_Barbarian)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 1:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/48 "2013-03-25T13:57:44Z")
> [@friedo](#): > > WThis morning I decided to wear a blue shirt. _To what end?!!!???!_ “Because I’m no damned redshirt, Captain!” ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 2:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/49 "2013-03-25T14:19:49Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > You have him assassinated. Happens all the time. And when 2 or 3 world leaders get together and jointly decide to laugh in your face? Assassinate them all with nobody thinking it strange? Turtles! Turtles all the way down, I tells ya! ---
**Author:** ![April\_R](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3da27b/32.png) [@April\_R](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/April_R)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/50 "2013-03-25T15:55:48Z")
Do dogs wonder what the purpose for existence is, do fish, do monkeys? We just are, it is what it is. Now I could expound on my religious beliefs, but no matter what the OP, my mom, my next door neighbor, or a anyone else thinks, we exist and that is probably the only thing we can all agree on. ---
**Author:** ![Lemur866](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lemur866/32/434_2.png) [@Lemur866](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lemur866)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/51 "2013-03-25T16:05:24Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > You have him assassinated. Happens all the time. No it doesn’t. Anyway, you’re a poor sort of Illuminatus if you can’t get a loyal slave elected as President. But that’s the point. Why do you need a slave to become president? Why not get yourself elected President? And then declare that there’s a period of emergency and you need to run again, and repeal the 22nd amendment, and make yourself president for life, and rule the country with an iron fist? This sort of thing worked for Stalin and Franco and Mao and any number of lesser dictators and strongmen. What exactly would Stalin have to fear from an Illuminatus? What does he gain from obeying orders? He’s afraid of assassination? But how do the Illuminati go about assassinating people? You need soldiers and/or ninjas, yes? Why do the ninjas obey the Illuminati? This is the thing about power. You have power when people obey you. And people obey you because they believe they’ll be better off when they obey you. And they think they’ll be better off if they obey you because you can offer them rewards or threaten them with punishments. So when the dictator orders the soldiers to take that guy–no, not that one, the other one, the guy with the hat–out back and shoot him in the head, why do the soldiers obey? The soldiers obey because they have a nice job with lots of perks, and they’re also afraid that if they don’t obey then they’ll be the ones taken out and shot in the head, and then their families. But this only works if the soldiers have reason to actually fear the dictator, and actually have reason to believe in the rewards of the dictator. And of course, the punishments and rewards of the dictator are not actually carried out by the dictator, but by everyone else. The dictator is only a dictator because everyone obeys. So when the dictator is driving down the street, the cops all know to stay out of the way. But what happens when an Illuminatus is driving down the street and gets pulled over by a local cop for speeding? The Illuminatus has to order the cop shot? Fired? He calls the president, who calls the governor, who calls the mayor, who calls the police chief, who calls the desk sergeant who calls the patrol officer to let the guy go? And so in real life, real life Illuminati have to be actually powerful people in their own right. Karl Rove gets pulled over for speeding, and the local cop recognizes him, and knows that Rove is well connected, and so lets him off or offers to escort him on his way. Maybe he doesn’t know Karl Rove could make a phone call and have him tortured to death, but he knows that Karl Rove is an important person, and if you help important people you receive rewards and avoid punishment. Note that the punishment or reward doesn’t have to be dire–the cop might just worry that Rove might call the police chief and bitch about officer so-and-so, and he’ll be stuck in parking enforcement for the rest of his career. Or maybe Rove will call up the police chief and say officer so-and-so helped me out, and when the next promotion comes up he’s got a leg up. But all this works because the peons know who the important people are, and the important people know who the other important people are. Not that you know every face, but when someone has the trappings of wealth, power, and influence you know to treat that person as if they have wealth, power and influence. And this is how con men work–act as if you own the joint and people will assume you own the joint. So acting as if you don’t have power is a good way to not actually have power when it counts. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/52 "2013-03-25T16:45:41Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > You have him assassinated. Happens all the time. Really? How do I do that? I step out of the Oval Office and tell the Secret Service agent at the doorway to go in and shoot Obama. But I’m the secret ruler, remember? That Secret Service agent doesn’t know he works for me because I’ve always relayed my orders through Obama. So he thinks he works for Obama because that’s what I wanted him to think. Obama tells the Secret Service agent I’m a crazy man off the street and orders him to arrest me. The Secret Service agent, who thinks he works for Obama, follows that order. As I’m being dragged away in handcuffs, Obama is chuckling in his office, “Who’s in charge now?” ---
**Author:** ![Obnoxious\_Hood\_Ornament](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/3be4f8/32.png) [@Obnoxious\_Hood\_Ornament](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Obnoxious_Hood_Ornament)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 5:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/53 "2013-03-25T17:02:49Z")
It sounds like someone’s Utopia chip is malfunctioning. An agent will be along shortly, citizen. ---
**Author:** ![HotDogWater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@HotDogWater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HotDogWater)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 6:41pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/54 "2013-03-25T18:41:48Z")
> [@](#): > > Quote: > Originally Posted by HotDogWater > According to Ancient Aliens, we were monkeys until the aliens visited and crossbred with us, turning us into humans. We then mined the gold they needed for fuel. And in the future, they will come back (there are all sorts of landmarks we built, like the pyramids and stonehenge, to help guide them) to refill their tanks. > > Fascinating. > > And what are your thoughts on this hypothesis? Well, at the risk of thread highjack, I like this scenario. Not exactly the working for gold for fuel part, but the claim that over a very short period of time (a couple thousand years), we went from monkeys to thinking humans, and this was a result of crossbreeding with aliens. When combined with the reference to space people inl human religious beliefs and folklore, it seems like a plausible idea. Mebbe I’ll start a new thread… ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/55 "2013-03-25T23:37:31Z")
> [@Great\_Antibob](#): > > And when 2 or 3 world leaders get together and jointly decide to laugh in your face? Assassinate them all with nobody thinking it strange? > > Turtles! Turtles all the way down, I tells ya! One Kennedy wasn’t cooperating and they bumped him off. Another Kennedy popped up and they got him, too. Afterwards they just have to put together a commission that is charged with investigating the event and the commission publishes its findings and the problem goes away. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [March 25, 2013, 11:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/56 "2013-03-25T23:49:55Z")
> [@Little\_Nemo](#): > > Really? How do I do that? > > I step out of the Oval Office and tell the Secret Service agent at the doorway to go in and shoot Obama. But I’m the secret ruler, remember? That Secret Service agent doesn’t know he works for me because I’ve always relayed my orders through Obama. So he thinks he works for Obama because that’s what I wanted him to think. > > Obama tells the Secret Service agent I’m a crazy man off the street and orders him to arrest me. The Secret Service agent, who thinks he works for Obama, follows that order. As I’m being dragged away in handcuffs, Obama is chuckling in his office, “Who’s in charge now?” The Secret “Powerman” is thousands of miles away. Why would he expose himself at a place as dangerous as the White House? He has well paid loyal individuals who work for him that in turn hire assassins. ---
**Author:** ![Mangosteen](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Mangosteen](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mangosteen)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/57 "2013-03-26T00:21:03Z")
> [@Lemur866](#): > > No it doesn’t. > > Anyway, you’re a poor sort of Illuminatus if you can’t get a loyal slave elected as President. > > But that’s the point. Why do you need a slave to become president? Why not get yourself elected President? And then declare that there’s a period of emergency and you need to run again, and repeal the 22nd amendment, and make yourself president for life, and rule the country with an iron fist? > > This sort of thing worked for Stalin and Franco and Mao and any number of lesser dictators and strongmen. What exactly would Stalin have to fear from an Illuminatus? What does he gain from obeying orders? He’s afraid of assassination? But how do the Illuminati go about assassinating people? You need soldiers and/or ninjas, yes? Why do the ninjas obey the Illuminati? > > This is the thing about power. You have power when people obey you. And people obey you because they believe they’ll be better off when they obey you. And they think they’ll be better off if they obey you because you can offer them rewards or threaten them with punishments. So when the dictator orders the soldiers to take that guy–no, not that one, the other one, the guy with the hat–out back and shoot him in the head, why do the soldiers obey? The soldiers obey because they have a nice job with lots of perks, and they’re also afraid that if they don’t obey then they’ll be the ones taken out and shot in the head, and then their families. > > But this only works if the soldiers have reason to actually fear the dictator, and actually have reason to believe in the rewards of the dictator. And of course, the punishments and rewards of the dictator are not actually carried out by the dictator, but by everyone else. The dictator is only a dictator because everyone obeys. > > So when the dictator is driving down the street, the cops all know to stay out of the way. But what happens when an Illuminatus is driving down the street and gets pulled over by a local cop for speeding? The Illuminatus has to order the cop shot? Fired? He calls the president, who calls the governor, who calls the mayor, who calls the police chief, who calls the desk sergeant who calls the patrol officer to let the guy go? > > And so in real life, real life Illuminati have to be actually powerful people in their own right. Karl Rove gets pulled over for speeding, and the local cop recognizes him, and knows that Rove is well connected, and so lets him off or offers to escort him on his way. Maybe he doesn’t know Karl Rove could make a phone call and have him tortured to death, but he knows that Karl Rove is an important person, and if you help important people you receive rewards and avoid punishment. Note that the punishment or reward doesn’t have to be dire–the cop might just worry that Rove might call the police chief and bitch about officer so-and-so, and he’ll be stuck in parking enforcement for the rest of his career. Or maybe Rove will call up the police chief and say officer so-and-so helped me out, and when the next promotion comes up he’s got a leg up. > > But all this works because the peons know who the important people are, and the important people know who the other important people are. Not that you know every face, but when someone has the trappings of wealth, power, and influence you know to treat that person as if they have wealth, power and influence. And this is how con men work–act as if you own the joint and people will assume you own the joint. So acting as if you don’t have power is a good way to not actually have power when it counts. An “Illuminati” like person NEVER goes out in public. They have everything they could ever want right at home in their huge mansion. If they want something, it is delivered to them. If they want to go to the south of France, they are picked up in an unmarked heavily armed non-conspicuous vehicle and whisked off to a nearby private airport where their jet is waiting. They stay in private homes that have their own private beaches. They also never deal with any level of government. An “Illuminati” like person sees to it that the government officials that might have an interest in him are paid off handsomely. (That’s power o’ plenty there) I’m not saying that there is any type of “Illuminati”. I’m also not saying that the Rothschild family has anything to do with the “Illuminati”. But just for example, do you really think that any member of the Rothschild family ever goes out in public and finds themselves having to deal with the hoi polloi? Do you think that any member of this family has any serious trouble with government authorities? ---
**Author:** ![kaylasdad99](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kaylasdad99/32/3398_2.png) [@kaylasdad99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kaylasdad99)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 12:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/58 "2013-03-26T12:58:53Z")
> [@HotDogWater](#): > > Well, at the risk of thread highjack, I like this scenario. Not exactly the working for gold for fuel part, but the claim that over a very short period of time (a couple thousand years), we went from monkeys to thinking humans, and this was a result of crossbreeding with aliens. When combined with the reference to space people inl human religious beliefs and folklore, it seems like a plausible idea. Mebbe I’ll start a new thread… Then where is our alien DNA these days, I wonder? (The mining gold for fuel part is, as you suggest, quite questionable; the ability to develop interstellar travel, combined with an _inability_ to manipulate matter on an elemental level is just too difficult to pass the laugh test.) ---
**Author:** ![HotDogWater](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/h/35a633/32.png) [@HotDogWater](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/HotDogWater)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/59 "2013-03-26T15:57:53Z")
pssst… **kaylasdad99** and **mangosteen** …["Ancient Aliens" theories and timelines - Miscellaneous and Personal Stuff I Must Share - Straight Dope Message Board](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=686326) ---
**Author:** ![Great\_Antibob](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e47c2d/32.png) [@Great\_Antibob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Great_Antibob)\ **Post date:** [March 26, 2013, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748/60 "2013-03-26T16:06:13Z")
> [@Mangosteen](#): > > But just for example, do you really think that any member of the Rothschild family ever goes out in public and finds themselves having to deal with the hoi polloi? Do you think that any member of this family has any serious trouble with government authorities? You think they can actually do anything they want, either? Princes William and Harry DID go out and hang around the hoi polloi. The pics of Harry in the Nazi costume? Or out in the field in Afghanistan? The leaked party photos from Las Vegas should be enough to know they don’t have absolute privacy and that regular schmoes have more access than you think. And any shadowy figures ONLY have such power because they’re known. You missed that point entirely. If the Illuminatus is not known to anybody, they don’t get anybody to work for them. Simple as that. They only have power because they are recognized and known. Even the knowledge they have vast amounts of wealth get leaked. People clamor to get at the money. You can’t hide that. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-am-i-working-for-anyway/653748.md?page=4)