# Who and Whom **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 26, 2012, 4:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686 "2012-08-26T04:48:26Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 17\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/41 "2012-08-27T00:01:48Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > Calling _whom_ as “fossil word” implies that it _used_ to be in common use but has become obsolete. Do you have any evidence that “whom” _used_ to be part of anyone’s natural speech, in situations where it isn’t anymore? Certainly it used to be a part of natural speech. Did you think it was an invented word? It’s just that that was a long time ago. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/42 "2012-08-27T00:21:03Z")
A corollary to the original question: Is it: That’s just who he is. Or That’s just whom he is. :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/43 "2012-08-27T00:24:34Z")
> [@John\_Mace](#): > > Fossil is a bad analogy, since it’s generally something dead or buried. Hence the locution: Living Fossil. Either that or vestigial would be what you are thinking. > > I will occasional use “whom” in speech. Not often, but sometimes. I certainly wouldn’t consider someone to have a stick up his ass if he did. Different people speak differently. TomAYto, ToMAHto. Despite my comment, I do use “whom” in casual speech, too. But it depends with whom I’m speaking. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/44 "2012-08-27T00:25:37Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > A corollary to the original question: > > Is it: > > That’s just who he is. > > Or > > That’s just whom he is. > :dubious: “Who” ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/45 "2012-08-27T00:32:49Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > “Who” Why not whom? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/46 "2012-08-27T00:34:15Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Why not whom? :dubious: Because it is being used in the nominative. Why the dubious look? ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 12:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/47 "2012-08-27T00:37:29Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > Why not whom? :dubious: A. Descriptively, because nobody says it that way. B. Grammatically, because there is no transitive verb nor any preposition in that sentence for “whom” to be the object of. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/48 "2012-08-27T01:01:43Z")
I thought “whom” would be the object of “is.” ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/49 "2012-08-27T01:05:45Z")
> [@IceQube](#): > > I thought “whom” would be the object of “is.” “IS” is not a transitive verb, and does not take an object. It does sometimes take the accusitive in colloquial English (“Who is it? It’s me!”) so it’s not completely illogical to think “It’s whom?” would be okay. “That’s just who he is,” though, has its own answer, because otherwise you’d say “that’s just whom him is,” and “him is” is both prescriptively and descriptively wrong. ---
**Author:** ![IceQube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/dfb087/32.png) [@IceQube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/IceQube)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 1:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/50 "2012-08-27T01:13:47Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > “IS” is not a transitive verb, and does not take an object. It does sometimes take the accusitive in colloquial English (“Who is it? It’s me!”) so it’s not completely illogical to think “It’s whom?” would be okay. “That’s just who he is,” though, has its own answer, because otherwise you’d say “that’s just whom him is,” and “him is” is both prescriptively and descriptively wrong. Ignorance annihilated. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 1:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/51 "2012-08-27T01:20:09Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > It does sometimes take the accusitive in colloquial English (“Who is it? It’s me!”) That form would be called a [disjunctive pronoun.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjunctive_pronoun) “To be” is a linking verb, so when you say “A is B,” both A and B should be in the subjective (nominative) case, at least in formal grammar. Now, what is logical and formal doesn’t always jibe with how people speak. To my ears, “it is I” as an answer to “Who’s there?” sounds awfully stilted, although it is formally correct. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 1:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/52 "2012-08-27T01:24:56Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > That form would be called a [disjunctive pronoun.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disjunctive_pronoun) “To be” is a linking verb, so when you say “A is B,” both A and B should be in the subjective (nominative) case, at least in formal grammar. Now, what is logical and formal doesn’t always jibe with how people speak. To my ears, “it is I” as an answer to “Who’s there?” sounds awfully stilted, although it is formally correct. I disagree, based on the fact that in my dialect (Californian) it’s perfectly grammatical to say, “Who is it? It’s me. Me and my friend Bob are here.” The first “me” might be a disjunctive pronoun, but it’s pretty clear that the second isn’t.\* In colloquial English, the accusative form can act as a nominative in several (but by no means all) constructions. I could also say “It’s me that brought the cake,” but in writing I would construct “It is I who brought the cake.” \*Though I can see how it might have originated as such, and I can see that the Wiki article claims that second construction is disjunctive. Faugh, I say. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 1:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/53 "2012-08-27T01:33:45Z")
> [@Dr.Drake](#): > > I disagree, based on the fact that in my dialect (Californian) it’s perfectly grammatical to say, “Who is it? It’s me. Me and my friend Bob are here.” The first “me” might be a disjunctive pronoun, but it’s pretty clear that the second isn’t.\* In colloquial English, the accusative form can act as a nominative in several (but by no means all) constructions. I could also say “It’s me that brought the cake,” but in writing I would construct “It is I who brought the cake.” > > \*Though I can see how it might have originated as such, and I can see that the Wiki article claims that second construction is disjunctive. Faugh, I say. I’m not sure what we disagree about. ---
**Author:** ![Dr.Drake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Dr.Drake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dr.Drake)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/54 "2012-08-27T03:36:02Z")
> [@pulykamell](#): > > I’m not sure what we disagree about. I’m not either. I think I only succeeded in confusing myself. ---
**Author:** ![Satellite\_Guy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/258eb7/32.png) [@Satellite\_Guy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Satellite_Guy)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 6:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/55 "2012-08-27T06:11:21Z")
Thought I’d drop in, just to share my new favorite joke: Knock knock. Who’s there? To. To who? No, to _whom_. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![drewtwo99](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/d07c76/32.png) [@drewtwo99](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drewtwo99)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 7:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/56 "2012-08-27T07:40:15Z")
> [@Satellite\_Guy](#): > > Thought I’d drop in, just to share my new favorite joke: > > Knock knock. > Who’s there? > To. > To who? > No, to _whom_. > 😃 Damn! Stole my joke (which I think I got from here at the Dope). Love it though. Sadly, only about 40% of the people I tell it to even get it, let alone think it’s funny. I guess that’s decent evidence that whom is really dying/dead. ---
**Author:** ![Bozuit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/edb3f5/32.png) [@Bozuit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bozuit)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2012, 10:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686/57 "2012-08-27T10:21:45Z")
I’ll write that one down. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-and-whom/632686.md?page=2)