# Who are bigger idiots - the birthers or the health care "death panel" believers? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [August 11, 2009, 3:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061 "2009-08-11T15:06:04Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 15\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 2:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/41 "2009-08-13T02:44:09Z")
[Now Michael Steele is doing it.](http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/08/steele-palins-talk-of-a-death-panel-is-perfectly-appropriate.php?ref=fpb) :rolleyes: ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/42 "2009-08-13T04:37:08Z")
Well in all seriousness. Under UHC are any of you denying that a group of Doctors will get together to decide whether or not to terminate treatment on you when you’re a 95 year old who is in a coma after a stroke? Do you deny that when such group or ‘panel’ of doctors gets together to discuss your ‘death’ that money will be an irrelevant concern? I want a straight answer. Do you think that a group of doctors will get together and triage patients with fiscal concerns being relevant to their decision? ---
**Author:** ![Onomatopoeia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/onomatopoeia/32/4145_2.png) [@Onomatopoeia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Onomatopoeia)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 4:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/43 "2009-08-13T04:46:42Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well in all seriousness. Under UHC are any of you denying that a group of Doctors will get together to decide whether or not to terminate treatment on you when you’re a 95 year old who is in a coma after a stroke? Do you deny that when such group or ‘panel’ of doctors gets together to discuss your ‘death’ that money will be an irrelevant concern? > > I want a straight answer. Do you think that a group of doctors will get together and triage patients with fiscal concerns being relevant to their decision? Yes, I deny it. Of course if you have anything to back up your contention (suspicion?) I’m all ears. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 9:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/44 "2009-08-13T09:08:16Z")
> [@Onomatopoeia](#): > > Yes, I deny it. Of course if you have anything to back up your contention (suspicion?) I’m all ears. I’m just asking. Obviously it hasn’t occurred yet so we don’t know what to say. Of course we’ll get to the point where we could probably keep a brain dead vegetable alive indefinitely. Just like the police have the resources to solve any crime if they devoted all their power to it, so could medicine keep Terry Schiavo alive for maybe 200 years if she lived another 50. I just think at a certain point medicine is going to level up and we’re really going to have to ask ourselves what the value of someone in a coma is? Of course maybe we could spend millions bringing them back to life. ---
**Author:** ![EddyTeddyFreddy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eddyteddyfreddy/32/18796_2.png) [@EddyTeddyFreddy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/EddyTeddyFreddy)\ **Post date:** [August 13, 2009, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/45 "2009-08-13T13:42:10Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well in all seriousness. Under UHC are any of you denying that a group of Doctors will get together to decide whether or not to terminate treatment on you when you’re a 95 year old who is in a coma after a stroke? Do you deny that when such group or ‘panel’ of doctors gets together to discuss your ‘death’ that money will be an irrelevant concern? > > I want a straight answer. Do you think that a group of doctors will get together and triage patients with fiscal concerns being relevant to their decision? What makes you think that doesn’t happen now? Except that currently a cost-containing, profit-driven insurance bureaucrat is usually in the driver’s seat. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/46 "2009-08-26T05:53:53Z")
Something just came up to favor the Birthers in this debate. Apparently some of them [are now obsessing about President Obama’s penis](http://jezebel.com/5344988/birthers-want-to-see-obamas-penis). > [@](#): > > Commenters (and circumcised Americans) over at Free Republic struck on a revelation yesterday: if Barack Obama has not been circumcised, then he must not have been born in the United States. Why? Because all of their boys were circumcised. The exchange is amusing: [paranoid freepers obsessing at link] So, we had the Clenis coined as a phrase. Now we have, what, the Benis? ---
**Author:** ![dropzone](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dropzone/32/7515_2.png) [@dropzone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dropzone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 6:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/47 "2009-08-26T06:06:31Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Well in all seriousness. Under UHC are any of you denying that a group of Doctors will get together to decide whether or not to terminate treatment on you when you’re a 95 year old who is in a coma after a stroke? Do you deny that when such group or ‘panel’ of doctors gets together to discuss your ‘death’ that money will be an irrelevant concern? > > I want a straight answer. Do you think that a group of doctors will get together and triage patients with fiscal concerns being relevant to their decision? That’s one of the points of triage, along with the concerns of the patient. I have several friends who are 95+ and, if the question came up, I assume they would go with the “Let me die” option, before demanding more, though their grandchildren might demand more. Had a friend who, at 105, just shuffled off this mortal coil. His wife of some 80 years died a few years ago. Leo was having a high ol’ time, even throwing out the first pitch at a Cubs game, but he was, like I said, a friend and was happier with his wife, Vi. Who, my wife has said, was a “pistol.” I know that joy because my wife is also a “pistol.” ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 2:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/48 "2009-08-26T14:48:50Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Something just came up to favor the Birthers in this debate. Apparently some of them [are now obsessing about President Obama’s penis](http://jezebel.com/5344988/birthers-want-to-see-obamas-penis). > > So, we had the Clenis coined as a phrase. Now we have, what, the Benis? I guess he should just whip it out and show them. But then they’d probably accuse him of using of a prosthetic penis. ---
**Author:** ![wonky](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wonky/32/393_2.png) [@wonky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wonky)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/49 "2009-08-26T15:02:12Z")
Wait, so he’s not Muslim now? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 3:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/50 "2009-08-26T15:03:50Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > Something just came up to favor the Birthers in this debate. Apparently some of them [are now obsessing about President Obama’s penis](http://jezebel.com/5344988/birthers-want-to-see-obamas-penis). > > So, we had the Clenis coined as a phrase. Now we have, what, the Benis? **Jack Dean Tyler** is a freeper? ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 4:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/51 "2009-08-27T04:54:28Z")
I don’t get that one. I have no idea who Jack Dean Tyler is. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/52 "2009-08-27T06:55:34Z")
> [@Equipoise](#): > > I don’t get that one. I have no idea who Jack Dean Tyler is. **JDT** was a poster from late 2000,(didn’t last long) who was OBSESSED with the injustice of circumcision. Worked it into nearly every post regardless of the topic. ---
**Author:** ![Equipoise](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/equipoise/32/151_2.png) [@Equipoise](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Equipoise)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/53 "2009-08-27T17:22:32Z")
Ha, that’s gotta win some kind of prize for random and obscure comebacks then. Thanks for the explanation. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 5:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/54 "2009-08-27T17:35:56Z")
> [@dropzone](#): > > That’s one of the points of triage, along with the concerns of the patient. I have several friends who are 95+ and, if the question came up, I assume they would go with the “Let me die” option, before demanding more, though their grandchildren might demand more. Yes, I agree. I think that this is the saner reaction to it. Instead of saying, “Death panels? You’re an idiot.”, explain the concept of triage and how it already applies. Sure it is harder to explain to someone who isn’t willing to listen but it might have better results. > [@](#): > > Had a friend who, at 105, just shuffled off this mortal coil. His wife of some 80 years died a few years ago. Leo was having a high ol’ time, even throwing out the first pitch at a Cubs game, but he was, like I said, a friend and was happier with his wife, Vi. Who, my wife has said, was a “pistol.” I know that joy because my wife is also a “pistol.” Hehe. 😉 Well, I’m at the point in life where I need to start thinking about such things. Need to consider getting a life insurance policy. My wife and I have been living together for a while and did the sort of hippy off the beaten path spiritual marriage thing, but with our second kid on the way we decided to go to city hall and make it official so that we can have power of attorney in case of something very bad occurring. My Father was a wreck when my Mother died and while he did what he could he was very dead inside. I could see it. I didn’t have much time with him because he worked, but he took the time to record bedtime stories for me. I cannot possibly imagine how horrible these kinds of scenarios would be to have to deal with, but they are a reality and something that needs to be considered. I would rather just go and not take societies resources as a vegetable. I’m willing to step out onto that ice floe. I imagine there is a certain pristine beauty as you float off into your last sunset. So for me I’d rather just sign the living will than be fodder for political concern. My Grandmother is kind of entering that stage. She’s not getting surgeries because she’d rather just die than be cut up and spend what’s left of her life recovering from surgeries. ---
**Author:** ![VinylTurnip](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/v/b2d939/32.png) [@VinylTurnip](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VinylTurnip)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061/55 "2009-08-27T19:13:22Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > YInstead of saying, “Death panels? You’re an idiot.”, explain the concept of triage and how it already applies. Sure. And to seal the deal, be sure to mention that the concept comes to us by way of our good friends, the French. The Red-Staters will be putty in your hands! [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-bigger-idiots-the-birthers-or-the-health-care-death-panel-believers/506061.md?page=2)