# Who are good white-male historical figures? **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [September 1, 2017, 10:11am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234 "2017-09-01T10:11:37Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/41 "2017-09-01T22:57:32Z")
And why exactly do you “hate the popular view of Jimmy Carter as ‘Mr. Nice Guy’”? You don’t seem to have a coherent, rational argument about, well, anything. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 10:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/42 "2017-09-01T22:58:13Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Well, every Ashkenazi Jewish friend I have say they consider themselves non-white. What they consider themselves is good enough for me. Then consider yourself non-white, and problem solved. ---
**Author:** ![Jackmannii](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jackmannii/32/311_2.png) [@Jackmannii](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jackmannii)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 10:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/43 "2017-09-01T22:59:35Z")
No right-thinking person could object to a statue of [Lemmy](https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/12/29/09/1280x720-y3X.jpg) (who alas, is now a historical figure). ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/44 "2017-09-01T23:01:57Z")
> [@Jackmannii](#): > > No right-thinking person could object to a statue of [Lemmy](https://static.independent.co.uk/s3fs-public/thumbnails/image/2015/12/29/09/1280x720-y3X.jpg) (who alas, is now a historical figure). …and he LOVED himself some Nazi paraphernalia. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/45 "2017-09-01T23:05:05Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > And why exactly do you “hate the popular view of Jimmy Carter as ‘Mr. Nice Guy’”? You don’t seem to have a coherent, rational argument about, well, anything. My view is I just want to be left alone and stop being lumped in with Mayflower people whose ancestors enslaved people. Maybe I’d be less angry if people stopped telling me that I’m exactly the same as some WASP whose family dates back to the 1600s here because my complexion is a similar shade, and as such, I’m equally as responsible for their sins as their descendants are. I would really just like to be left alone and for society to calm down. I also resent being alive in this time. If I didn’t feel marginalized, I’d probably be more coherent and less angry. ---
**Author:** ![snfaulkner](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snfaulkner/32/433_2.png) [@snfaulkner](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/snfaulkner)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/46 "2017-09-01T23:07:36Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > My view is I just want to be left alone and stop being lumped in with Mayflower people whose ancestors enslaved people. Maybe I’d be less angry if people stopped telling me that I’m exactly the same as some WASP whose family dates back to the 1600s here because my complexion is a similar shade, and as such, I’m equally as responsible for their sins as their descendants are. I would really just like to be left alone and for society to calm down. I also resent being alive in this time. If I didn’t feel marginalized, I’d probably be more coherent and less angry. You hang out with the wrong ppl. ---
**Author:** ![begbert2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/begbert2/32/3357_2.png) [@begbert2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/begbert2)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/47 "2017-09-01T23:09:13Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > My view is I just want to be left alone and stop being lumped in with Mayflower people whose ancestors enslaved people. Maybe I’d be less angry if people stopped telling me that I’m exactly the same as some WASP whose family dates back to the 1600s here because my complexion is a similar shade, and as such, I’m equally as responsible for their sins as their descendants are. I would really just like to be left alone and for society to calm down. I also resent being alive in this time. If I didn’t feel marginalized, I’d probably be more coherent and less angry. Do you get this sort of reaction in real life, or just on the internet? Also, as a white man, I declare you to be responsible for the state of my bathroom. And you should be very ashamed. ---
**Author:** ![protoboard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/fbc32d/32.png) [@protoboard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/protoboard)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/48 "2017-09-01T23:09:56Z")
The thing about white male privilege is that a lot of white males aren’t particularly privileged. What if you’re a poor white man who was molested and beaten as a child, for example? Are you more privileged than a rich black woman who has never been mistreated in her life? Or what if you’re a white male but you’re gay, or have autism or Down’s syndrome? Arguably being female might make you even less privileged, but you’re hardly part of the “privileged class”. Besides, being privileged doesn’t make you a worse person. Privilege is only bad when it comes with entitlement. There’s plenty of very kind white males, and nasty people of color and women. ---
**Author:** ![Tzigone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/839c29/32.png) [@Tzigone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tzigone)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/49 "2017-09-01T23:13:12Z")
> [@](#): > > If I didn’t feel marginalized, I’d probably be more coherent and less angry. Now think the minorities and women who, _as a group_ are objectively more marginalized in terms of power (elected positions), wages, high-ranking positions, and job opportunities than white males are _as a group_. Are they not supposed to be angry about that? To pretend the reality is that race and gender don’t make a difference when we know from various studies that they do? To stop trying to change society so they do have equal opportunities? ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/50 "2017-09-01T23:13:13Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > My view is I just want to be left alone and stop being lumped in with Mayflower people whose ancestors enslaved people. Maybe I’d be less angry if people stopped telling me that I’m exactly the same as some WASP whose family dates back to the 1600s here because my complexion is a similar shade, and as such, I’m equally as responsible for their sins as their descendants are. I would really just like to be left alone and for society to calm down. I also resent being alive in this time. If I didn’t feel marginalized, I’d probably be more coherent and less angry. Holy crap. I am so sorry this is happening to you. I am of a similar shade, but for some reason, I am left alone and have never been told that I am “equally responsible” for the sins of the white race. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/51 "2017-09-01T23:17:30Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > > [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > > > And why exactly do you “hate the popular view of Jimmy Carter as ‘Mr. Nice Guy’”? You don’t seem to have a coherent, rational argument about, well, anything. > > My view is I just want to be left alone and stop being lumped in with Mayflower people whose ancestors enslaved people. Maybe I’d be less angry if people stopped telling me that I’m exactly the same as some WASP whose family dates back to the 1600s here because my complexion is a similar shade, and as such, I’m equally as responsible for their sins as their descendants are. I would really just like to be left alone and for society to calm down. I also resent being alive in this time. If I didn’t feel marginalized, I’d probably be more coherent and less angry. These people who are telling you these things; does anyone else in your vicinity see them, or is it just you seeing them? Or are these just voices in your head? Or are you just imagining what hypothetical people might hypothetically say to you? ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/52 "2017-09-01T23:18:25Z")
Oh. My mother’s side of the family came to this country when a shadow fell across the land and the potatoes grew no more. My genealogically cousin has determined that my paternal grandfather entered the country illegally to avoid bring drafted for the Russians in World War One. His ticket was to Argentina which his brother reached (thus my Spanish speaking cousins). I also have no direct family connection to anything which happened in this country before the Civil War, and my people did not have the economic clout to cause much grief since then. That does not mean I cannot support people with old family grievances. The issues are not my fault but I will take them as my responsibility. Because I am neither selfish nor frightened. Don’t be the type of person who perpetuates problems through lack of empathy. ---
**Author:** ![Skara\_Brae](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f0a364/32.png) [@Skara\_Brae](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skara_Brae)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/53 "2017-09-01T23:21:37Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > Are you aware of any serious objection to any existing or proposed statue to Jimmy Carter? Or are you just desperately trying to prove a ridiculous point here? > > BTW, another inoffensive, widely liked white guy; Fred Rogers, the host of Mister Rogers’ Neighborhood. No idea if anyone ever put up a statue of him, but I would certainly not object to one. Visit Pittsburg. > **[File:FredRogersStatueinPittsburghPA.jpg](https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:FredRogersStatueinPittsburghPA.jpg)** > > FredRogersStatueinPittsburghPA.jpg ‎(323 × 308 pixels, file size: 22 KB, MIME type: image/jpeg) > Picture of the Fred Rogers Memorial Statue located near Heinz Field on the North Shore in Pittsburgh, Pennsylvania, on November 8, 2009. The Ohio River can be seen in the background on the left. > The bronze sculpture was created by Robert Berks, and is the centerpiece of Tribute to Children. A former pier from the Manchester Bridge is located directly behind the statue, which forms an arched walkw... If anyone deserves a statue, I’d say Mr. Rogers does… ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/54 "2017-09-01T23:26:02Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > When I stop hearing every single day in every single place about white privilege, or which statue of which (Non-Confederate) will come down next, I’ll let it go. When I stop being the Left’s boogie man, I’ll let it go. 😕 Why do you feel that allusions to white privilege, or to historical figures having some questionable records on human rights issues, are some kind of attack on you or attempt to make you a boogeyman? Longstanding white racial domination and bigotry against other races, and the consequent privileged status of white people in most white-majority cultures, are just historical and sociological facts. Acknowledging those facts is not intrinsically an attack on white people. For somebody who’s gone on record on these boards as a self-proclaimed passionate supporter of historical veracity and a strong opponent of attempts to deny history, you sure seem awfully squeamish about other people referring to parts of history you don’t happen to like. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/55 "2017-09-01T23:31:21Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > 😕 Why do you feel that allusions to white privilege, or to historical figures having some questionable records on human rights issues, are some kind of attack on you or attempt to make you a boogeyman? > > Longstanding white racial domination and bigotry against other races, and the consequent privileged status of white people in most white-majority cultures, are just historical and sociological facts. Acknowledging those facts is not intrinsically an attack on white people. > > For somebody who’s gone on record on these boards as a self-proclaimed passionate supporter of historical veracity and a strong opponent of attempts to deny history, you sure seem awfully squeamish about other people referring to parts of history you don’t happen to like. You know why. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/56 "2017-09-01T23:32:10Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > And Theodore Roosevelt, and now Peter Stuyversant. I told you it was a slippery slope. Bullshit. Those are among the local calls from tiny groups that I mentioned. There is no general call for the destruction of every monument to Roosevelt and the typical American could not tell you who Stuyvesant was to win a bet. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/57 "2017-09-01T23:33:01Z")
> [@DrFidelius](#): > > Oh. My mother’s side of the family came to this country when a shadow fell across the land and the potatoes grew no more. > > My genealogically cousin has determined that my paternal grandfather entered the country illegally to avoid bring drafted for the Russians in World War One. His ticket was to Argentina which his brother reached (thus my Spanish speaking cousins). > > I also have no direct family connection to anything which happened in this country before the Civil War, and my people did not have the economic clout to cause much grief since then. > > That does not mean I cannot support people with old family grievances. The issues are not my fault but I will take them as my responsibility. Because I am neither selfish nor frightened. > > Don’t be the type of person who perpetuates problems through lack of empathy. I would rather be that person than be a sucker who is allies with people who hate him. ---
**Author:** ![Reddy\_Mercury](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/43a26b/32.png) [@Reddy\_Mercury](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reddy_Mercury)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/58 "2017-09-01T23:34:11Z")
> [@tomndebb](#): > > Bullshit. > > Those are among the local calls from tiny groups that I mentioned. > There is no general call for the destruction of every monument to Roosevelt and the typical American could not tell you who Stuyvesant was to win a bet. Local calls grow into national ones very quickly in this revolutionary fervor, and with social media to help fuel the angry in different states. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/59 "2017-09-01T23:35:15Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Col. Crawford, who died almost 50 years before the Confederacy’s statue was beheaded. Please tell me why I am so wrong in believing it will be limited to the Confederates and Columbus. Thr Crawford statue was damaged by a vandal that was too cowardly to identify himself and left no call to action to ensure it was not repaired. There was no call by any group to damage Crawford’s likeness. You are really grasping, here. ---
**Author:** ![tomndebb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/b9e5f3/32.png) [@tomndebb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tomndebb)\ **Post date:** [September 1, 2017, 11:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234/60 "2017-09-01T23:37:14Z")
> [@Reddy\_Mercury](#): > > Local calls grow into national ones very quickly in this revolutionary fervor, and with social media to help fuel the angry in different states. They can. However, so far none of your examples have demonstrated any such movement. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-good-white-male-historical-figures/795234.md?page=4)