# Who are Presidents even more unpopular and caustic than Trump? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [December 24, 2018, 4:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634 "2018-12-24T16:35:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [December 25, 2018, 9:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/21 "2018-12-25T21:43:00Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > A lot of people forget just how much people hated George W Bush, Bush was basically getting all of the flack Trump was. A notable amount of people here were claiming Bush was going to suspend the 2008 election and declare himself President for Life. Bush was notable in uniting both the left and what would later become the alt-right in sheer hated of him. Alex Jones got his start claiming George W Bush was a complete monster who was going to round everyone up and put them in FEMA Death Camps. > > Also Obama had an incredibly shaky middle period of his Presidency after the NSA stuff where even the American left (on the internet at least) was turning on him en-masse. When HuffingtonPost started to turn on Obama you know things were going bad. Bull-fucking-shit. I remember Bush very well – hell, I remember Nixon very well – and this orange piece of low-class, lowlife, gangster piece of SHIT is a class all by himself. Or “itself,” as he can hardly be considered human. ---
**Author:** ![Guinastasia](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guinastasia/32/5751_2.png) [@Guinastasia](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guinastasia)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 7:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/22 "2018-12-27T07:08:37Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Cites? I wasn’t an SDMBer in 2008; did Dopers really make that claim? I’m not faulting your memory, but would like to see the claims with my own eyes. > > And the “Left” always tends toward criticism, but did they really “turn on Obama … en masse”? > > IMHO, those who don’t think that the Trump Travesty is qualitatively different from all previous bad Presidents must be stuck in a FoxNews bubble or such. Not really in 2008, but I do remember people saying afte 9-11 that Bush would probably declare martial law, or cancel the elections, or something like that. Just like the right thought Obama was going to declare Sharia law and take away everyone’s guns. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 7:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/23 "2018-12-27T07:31:41Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, I’m guessing that someday, we actually WILL be saying, “God, I would rather have TRUMP than this guy!” You know what they say about “absence makes the heart grow fonder”? Oh, I am absolutely certain of it. For the simple reason that I don’t believe Trump will get us involved in a war, but I do think that a different president eventually will. If this future war goes well for us, then whatever president oversaw it will be appreciated. If it does not go well for us, if it spirals out of control the way the “War on Terror” did - or worse - there WILL be people saying, “at least Trump didn’t start a war.” ---
**Author:** ![enipla](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/54ee81/32.png) [@enipla](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/enipla)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 3:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/24 "2018-12-27T15:11:01Z")
None are worse than Trump. The others mentioned at least had SOMETHING to give. Or had a hint of intelligence or experience. Trump has none of that. He only cares about himself. That’s it. ---
**Author:** ![Gatopescado](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gatopescado/32/5711_2.png) [@Gatopescado](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gatopescado)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/25 "2018-12-27T16:45:28Z")
None More Black. _“There’s such a fine line between clever and stupid.”_ ---
**Author:** ![guizot](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guizot/32/3636_2.png) [@guizot](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/guizot)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 5:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/26 "2018-12-27T17:45:05Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > Andrew Jackson and Andrew Johnson are two that immediately came to my mind. > > Andrew Johnson’s caustic demeanor is often compared to Trump. > > Andrew Jackson was a very violent dude. He attacked a would be assassin. Clubbed him with his cane. It’s lucky for CNN they weren’t around during his Presidency. LOL > [https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/president-jackson-survives-assassination-attempt-jan-30-1835-234243](https://www.politico.com/story/2017/01/president-jackson-survives-assassination-attempt-jan-30-1835-234243) > > How about Lyndon Johnson? He made Bobby Kennedy brief him on the toilet. Ah, the pungent whiff of bad news. 😉 > > But, Johnson had been Senate Majority Leader and was masterful at working the phones. > > How about Jimmy Carter? He was a very cold and calculating guy. Had a lot of trouble connecting to people. That lead to problems with Congress. I highly recommend this book. > [The Real Jimmy Carter: How Our Worst Ex-President Undermines American ... - Steven F. Hayward - Google Books](https://books.google.com/books?id=FJTmAgAAQBAJ&pg=PA3&lpg=PA3&dq=jimmy+carter+cold+unfriendly&source=bl&ots=0jtCzmtc-f&sig=G9g4YgSj4dFtSncGJWbTmAm7U5A&hl=en&sa=X&ved=2ahUKEwjm4P2W8rjfAhUSZawKHQ89DIsQ6AEwGXoECAUQAQ#v=onepage&q=jimmy%20carter%20cold%20unfriendly&f=false) > > I suggested a few names to get the conversation started. > > Who would you list as Presidents even more unpopular and caustic than Trump? Unpopularity and causticity are independent variables. Whatever unpopularity was tied to Jackson, Johnson, LBJ, and Carter was for varied reasons, and none of them were simply for being “caustic.” Does it really need to be repeated, even in this same thread? Trump’s unpopularity arises from so many things–his causticity itself is the least of the problems. (Occasional and well-placed sarcasm can effectively make a a good point.) Trump is unpopular because he is petty, childish, narcissistic, shallow, ignorant, inept, shamelessly corrupt and self-serving–and most of all, useless. It’s painfully obvious that we’ve never before elected a president who is so unworthy, and yet over and over again we try to convince ourselves that we didn’t, among other ways by making threads such as this. ---
**Author:** ![Yllaria](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/yllaria/32/3452_2.png) [@Yllaria](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Yllaria)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/27 "2018-12-27T21:19:25Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Not really in 2008, but I do remember people saying afte 9-11 that Bush would probably declare martial law, or cancel the elections, or something like that. > > Just like the right thought Obama was going to declare Sharia law and take away everyone’s guns. There were people saying that George Washington was going to be President for life and slowly create a monarchy. I’d be willing to lay money that there has been a faction predicting that every President was going to cancel elections. ---
**Author:** ![ftg](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ftg/32/2801_2.png) [@ftg](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ftg)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 9:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/28 "2018-12-27T21:48:14Z")
I just saw a thing a couple days ago claiming the Lincoln was resoundingly hated and was saved in history by being assassinated. But look at the [1864 election](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1864_United_States_presidential_election). Won by 10% margin in the popular vote. An amazing near sweep in the electoral college. And this was less than a half year before he died. But what about the South you say, they weren’t included. Well, duh. But OTOH both Louisiana and Tennessee went ahead with votes and Lincoln won both of them. (Both’s electoral votes eventually weren’t included.) ---
**Author:** ![FlikTheBlue](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fliktheblue/32/10972_2.png) [@FlikTheBlue](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FlikTheBlue)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 10:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/29 "2018-12-27T22:10:06Z")
I’ve got two on my list that are worse than Trump, but am willing to consider that Trump might pass them. One of those is James Buchanan, who responsible for the Dred Scott decision and the worst president we’ve ever had in my book. The second worst is Andrew Johnson, who botched the immediate post Civil War era badly. Trump would have to do quite a bit worse to pass those two. On the other hand, he’d have to do quite a bit better to pass up the guys in 4th and 5th place (no, neither one is W, who I would place somewhere atound 15th to 20th worst). ---
**Author:** ![coffeecat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/coffeecat/32/3405_2.png) [@coffeecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/coffeecat)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 11:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/30 "2018-12-27T23:09:19Z")
I agree about Buchanan. Unlike him, Trump has not actually destroyed the country. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 27, 2018, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/31 "2018-12-27T23:11:00Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > I agree about Buchanan. Unlike him, Trump has not actually destroyed the country. Malice, tempered by incompetence. ---
**Author:** ![Mahaloth](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mahaloth/32/1079_2.png) [@Mahaloth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mahaloth)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 1:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/32 "2018-12-28T01:05:05Z")
> [@Asuka](#): > > A lot of people forget just how much people hated George W Bush, Bush was basically getting all of the flack Trump was. A notable amount of people here were claiming Bush was going to suspend the 2008 election and declare himself President for Life. By here, do you mean the Straight Dope? I don’t remember anyone saying that during W. Bush’s terms and he was pretty unpopular here. [Closest I can find is this thread](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=432769). ---
**Author:** ![StusBlues](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dc4da7/32.png) [@StusBlues](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StusBlues)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/33 "2018-12-28T01:09:06Z")
> [@Guinastasia](#): > > Well, I’m guessing that someday, we actually WILL be saying, “God, I would rather have TRUMP than this guy!” You know what they say about “absence makes the heart grow fonder”? Jesus, I sure hope not. I honest to god hope this is the low point. I really hope a big chunk of the electorate has their moment of the Trump presidency and realizes the enormity of how bad this is. Trump’s blasé nature about the shutdown over an unfeasible border wall may be the tipping point for many; stiffing employees at Christmas – who are mandated to work – is about the shittiest thing a president can do that doesn’t involve real violence. Already several fervent Trump supporters who are tangentially in my circle have quit posting Trump memes. They still post rather thoughtless conservative stuff, but the Trump ardor appears to have cooled. Let’s hope we’ve learned SOMETHING of a lesson. **Lamoral** is right to a degree in that Trump has not yet started a war, but I am fearful that this may not be the case in the next two years with Mattis gone. Trump appointed him by accident (“Mad Dog Mattis” sounded pretty badass to him), but I am afraid that Mattis was the cool head in the room several times in the last two years. Now that he has retired, I fear that there is no one left in the Pentagon who can curb his petulance. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 2:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/34 "2018-12-28T02:26:49Z")
> [@coffeecat](#): > > I agree about Buchanan. Unlike him, Trump has not actually destroyed the country. Yet. ---
**Author:** ![Ambivalid](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/a5b964/32.png) [@Ambivalid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ambivalid)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/35 "2018-12-28T02:29:59Z")
> [@Siam\_Sam](#): > > Chump. This cheapens all your posts on the subject. It seems juvenile, why do you incessantly do this? ---
**Author:** ![TSBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/77aa72/32.png) [@TSBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TSBG)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 4:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/36 "2018-12-28T04:38:36Z")
Buchanan’s got to be the absolute worst because he really almost destroyed the nation. Johnson was horrible–given free reign he might have done something crazy like let the South re-secede–but at least his worst instincts were mitigated somewhat by the Republican Congress and later by the actions of Grant, who while far from perfect was much better than the caricature. Trump is a very particular kind of bad, and potentially the worst. But remember that W Bush cratered to far worse approval ratings. There appears to be 42% of the the country for whom nothing can shake their faith in Orange Cheeto Jesus, and because of the nature of American politics and its electoral system, we might get Four More Years. A country get the leaders it deserves. Possibly this is what we we deserve. As for the OP. I and others have pointed out presidents who were more unpopular, though, as also mentioned, it’s sort of impossible to know this before the 1930s. Caustic is also difficult to measure. I’m sure Obama, who famously projects a controlled and low-key demeanor, ripped plenty of aides a new one; just as I’m sure that genial uncle Ronald Reagan let it rip behind closed doors. The difference with Trump is his willingness to let it all hang out in public–in a word, he’s un-presidential. This is a man who just criticized a 7 year old for believing in Santa Claus. ---
**Author:** ![dorvann](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/df705f/32.png) [@dorvann](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/dorvann)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/37 "2018-12-28T21:15:38Z")
I think all the modern Presidents are at distinct disadvantage when it comes to answering this question. They have to deal with the constant news coverage that is broadcast coast-to-coast that a President in the 19th century woudn’t have. The general public today probably knows more about the day-to-day operations of Washington: DC than back then and it probably hurts the standing of, say, the last ten Presidents. ---
**Author:** ![aceplace57](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aceplace57/32/3500_2.png) [@aceplace57](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/aceplace57)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 9:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/38 "2018-12-28T21:54:00Z")
I find it reassuring that our nation has survived other bad presidents. Trump’s time in office will eventually pass and he’ll be a footnote in the history books. ---
**Author:** ![Little\_Nemo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/little_nemo/32/3120_2.png) [@Little\_Nemo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Little_Nemo)\ **Post date:** [December 28, 2018, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/39 "2018-12-28T22:01:31Z")
> [@TSBG](#): > > Johnson was horrible–given free reign he might have done something crazy like let the South re-secede That’s doubtful; Johnson hated the Confederate power structure. He came from a poor background and he felt that the rich elite in the south exploited poor whites. So his aim after the war was to see power in the south transferred from the plantation owners to poor and middle class whites. But Johnson also was a racist (which was not uncommon in his era). He did not want to see black people getting any share of the power being redistributed. ---
**Author:** ![Procrustus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/procrustus/32/2994_2.png) [@Procrustus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Procrustus)\ **Post date:** [December 29, 2018, 2:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634/40 "2018-12-29T02:23:01Z")
> [@aceplace57](#): > > I find it reassuring that our nation has survived other bad presidents. > > Trump’s time in office will eventually pass and he’ll be a footnote in the history books. There is no guarantee, but I assume that’s probably correct. Hopefully we’ll learn from this and never sink so low again. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-presidents-even-more-unpopular-and-caustic-than-trump/826634.md?page=3)