# Who are the greatest minds in Rock and Roll **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [June 14, 2002, 2:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045 "2002-06-14T14:40:43Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Epimetheus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/c4cdca/32.png) [@Epimetheus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Epimetheus)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 3:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/41 "2002-06-15T15:43:51Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by TV time \* > \*\* > > Strange, no one has said Ozzy. \*\* While his music is great, I’m not so sure he would be a great mind of rock and roll. Gotta have a mind first. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 3:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/42 "2002-06-15T15:51:12Z")
40 replies and no Elvis Costello? ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 4:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/43 "2002-06-15T16:07:43Z")
Phil Collins? Phil Collins hasn’t done anything musically adventurous, urgent or inventive since probably _Abacab_, or maybe _Genesis_. I certainly wouldn’t credit him with the inventiveness or depth of _Trick of the Tail_; look at the writing credits for the album: [pre] 1. Dance on a Volcano (Banks/Collins/Hackett/Rutherford) 2. Entangled (Banks/Hackett) 3. Squonk (Banks/Rutherford) 4. Mad Man Moon (Banks) 5. Robbery, Assault & Battery (Banks/Collins) 6. Ripples (Banks/Rutherford) 7. A Trick of the Tail (Banks) 8. Los Endos (Banks/Collins/Hackett/Rutherford) [/pre] His creative input on the album was pretty minimal, and the best songs on the record (“Squonk” and “Entangled”) do not credit him as a writer. The first Genesis album in which a large portion of the songwriting came from Collins was _Duke_, and the only two songs on that record that are credited solely to Collins are “Please Don’t Ask” and “Misunderstanding,” both of which solidified the band’s transition from art rock to straight pop rock. Just as on _Abacab_ the only song credited solely to Collins is “Man on the Corner.” Left to his own devices, Phil Collins not only is not a great mind, he’s not a very good one. He’s unadventurous and purely pedestrian. And don’t even bring up the Oscar. When they start recollecting Oscars that were given out by mistake, he’ll be at the front of the line. ---
**Author:** ![pldennison](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/9fc29f/32.png) [@pldennison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pldennison)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 4:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/44 "2002-06-15T16:17:52Z")
I guess it isn’t fair to trash someone else’s choice without offering some of my own. :smack: \*In no particular order . . . \* Lennon and McCartney Todd Rundgren Andy Partridge Alan Parsons Glen Tilbrook Prince Aimee Mann Brian Wilson Tom Scholz Jimmy Page ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/d26b3c/32.png) [@Mr.Blue\_Sky](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Blue_Sky)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/45 "2002-06-15T16:30:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by CrankyAsAnOldMan \* > \*\*Jeff Lynne. Laugh if you want; it’s my understanding he’s gifted in a buncha ways \*\* I agree whole-heartedly. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Coldfire](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a587f6/32.png) [@Coldfire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Coldfire)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/46 "2002-06-15T17:59:11Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by Eonwe \* > **Can’t Phil _and_ Peter be on the list.** Well, OK. But only if I can add **Geddy Lee** , for being one of the most influencial bass players in the world. I’ll toss in **Les Claypool** for good measure. ---
**Author:** ![WarmNPrickly](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/d78d45/32.png) [@WarmNPrickly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WarmNPrickly)\ **Post date:** [June 15, 2002, 6:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/47 "2002-06-15T18:26:42Z")
Wayne Coyne - Flamming Lips It will take some time before his influence on rock and roll becomes more obvious as few people are familiar with early Flamming Lips, but that could also have been said of the Velvet Underground which was a model for most of the experimental rock music of the nineties. Occasionally, these experimental bands stumble on a sound that popular culture can relate to. Then another band picks it up and takes credit for it. Wheezer is clearly influenced by the Flamming Lips in both sound and lyrical style. The difference is that while I have a pretty good idea what the next Wheezer album is going to sound like, I am utterly clueless as to what the Flamming Lips are going to do. Listen to the Soft Bulletin(sp?), Transmission froma Satellite, Hit to Death in the Future Head, and Zaireka (The concept alone is at once both insane and brilliant). Then try to predict what the new album sounds like. Now they are comming out with a movie, and a sound-track to a different movie. They have done concerts using car stereos in parking garages (I can’t adequately explain in one post.) It is true that not all of these expiriments are for everyone to enjoy, but isn’t that true of the work of all the best artists? Ozzy Osbourne definitely belongs near the top of that list, but I would be crazy to say that everyone should listen to Ozzy Osbourne. ---
**Author:** ![syncrolecyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f08c70/32.png) [@syncrolecyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/syncrolecyne)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2002, 6:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/48 "2002-06-16T06:15:22Z")
Any of you ever hear of Sergio and Armando Dias and Rita Lee, aka “Os Mutantes”? They were making music in Brazil that almost rivaled what the Beatles were doing at the same time. Certainly **Os Mutantes** are the leaders in the “non-English language rock” category. Considering they basically made all their own equipment (such as wah wah pedals) and pretty much made homemade records in the beginning too, they were brilliant. ---
**Author:** ![Tansu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@Tansu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tansu)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2002, 3:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/49 "2002-06-16T15:15:18Z")
Os Mutantes were indeed brilliant. Here are my tips: Nick Cave Kristin Hersh (rather than Tanya Donnelly) Brian Wilson John McEntire James Brown? Ian Crause (career too shortlived, but utterly brilliant engineer, arranger and lyricist) ---
**Author:** ![todd33rpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@todd33rpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/todd33rpm)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2002, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/50 "2002-06-16T15:58:41Z")
**Jeff Buckley** , because anyone who can combine torch song vocalizing with Zepplinesque crunch is a genius in my book. Seconds on **Richard Thompson** , **Otis Redding** and **Os Mutantes**! I’ll also second **John McEntire** with or without **Tortoise** , just for his work with **Tom Ze**. In terms of reworking what was possible in a studio, ya gotta go with the **Beatles**. That’s one of those cases where the technology had to catch up with their creativity on the fly. No one else comes close, whether you like the music or not. **Bruce Cockburn** , for illustrating that poetry and pretension are not automatically bedfellows. Key piece of evidence: 1999’s _Breakfast In New Orleans, Dinner In Timbuktu_, especially “Use Me While You Can,” “Isn’t That What Friends Are For?” and “Mango,” in roughly that order. **NRBQ** , the best bar band on the planet, bar none. **XTC** are quite possibly the most melodic band on the planet, at least since 1984’s _The Big Express_, when Andy Partridge really got a grip on his vocal gift. Prior to that, the albums could be a little too erratic for me. Current fave: **Rufus Wainwright**. _Poses_ was the best album I heard last year. ---
**Author:** ![Larry\_Bee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/7ba0ec/32.png) [@Larry\_Bee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Larry_Bee)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2002, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/51 "2002-06-16T21:01:15Z")
> [@](#): > > \*Originally posted by casdave \* > > **Richard Thompson…Peter Green (In the 60’s)** Very impressed (but I reckon that Thompson only shines live). I’d also recommend Brian Wilson (What’s left of it) Bob Dylan Ian Brown/John Squire/The other Roses Tom Waits Shane MacGowan (Again the dry bits of it) Page & Plant (Pre 1997) Prince (Although it went a bit pear=shaped after he becane the thimble) The Sex Pistols had great Rock N Roll minds too ---
**Author:** ![Mudshark](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/f04885/32.png) [@Mudshark](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mudshark)\ **Post date:** [June 16, 2002, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/52 "2002-06-16T22:33:09Z")
Frank Zappa John Lennon Roger Waters ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/53 "2002-06-17T02:56:22Z")
I second Peter Gabriel, Paul Simon, Sting, Joe Jackson, Brian Eno, and I’ll throw in: **David Sylvian** ---
**Author:** ![todd33rpm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/a5b964/32.png) [@todd33rpm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/todd33rpm)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 7:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/54 "2002-06-17T07:35:07Z")
Loved that album Sylvian did with Robert Fripp in 1993. **Dragon Phoenix** , speaking of David Sylvian…saw that they’ve finally seen fit to do a two-disc anthology of his stuff sometime recently, covering Japan, Rain Tree Crow, solo, Ryuchi Sakamoto…has it been issued in Singapore yet? I was curious as to whether to recommend it as a good starting point for someone… ---
**Author:** ![Tennessee\_Ben](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/f0a364/32.png) [@Tennessee\_Ben](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tennessee_Ben)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/55 "2002-06-17T16:44:49Z")
Dear God. Fifty-four posts and no mention of **Adam Duritz**. I don’t know whether to be appalled or just happy that I get to make an original nomination this deep in the thread. The man graduated from Berkley, I believe, and won all kinds of poetry awards as an undergrad. As far as being a great “mind” goes, he’s one of the few popular musicians who I would actually say incorporates poetic forms into his music. The man’s a genius. ---
**Author:** ![Tansu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/67e7ee/32.png) [@Tansu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tansu)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 9:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/56 "2002-06-17T21:24:07Z")
I forgot someone very big. Don van Vliet - aka **Captain Beefheart**. ---
**Author:** ![montag01](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/51bf81/32.png) [@montag01](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/montag01)\ **Post date:** [June 17, 2002, 11:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/57 "2002-06-17T23:52:02Z")
I’ll agree with Christopher on the Flaming Lips. ---
**Author:** ![Dragon\_Phoenix](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bcef8e/32.png) [@Dragon\_Phoenix](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dragon_Phoenix)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 1:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/58 "2002-06-18T01:09:14Z")
In response to **Todd33rpm** : As a starter for David Sylvian, I would not recommend the 2CD anthology. It is an interesting addition to the collection, though, because it includes some alternative versions (I actually picked it up in China). Start with **Secret of the beehive** , but make sure to get the version that includes Forbidden colours. Then a taste of Japan with **Tin drum**. After that, I would go for **Brilliant trees** and **Dead bees on a cake**. By then you are probably hooked and want to get all his material… ---
**Author:** ![Kyomara](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/8edcca/32.png) [@Kyomara](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kyomara)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 2:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/59 "2002-06-18T02:39:01Z")
[Steve Albini](http://www.negativland.com/albini.html) As God is my witness, I will never understand why People think Kurt Kobain was a genius. Everything after _Bleach_ was only good. I will also never understand why I capitalized the word “people” in that last paragraph. > [@](#): > > My heart is broke, but I have some glue > Help me inhale and mend it with you > We’ll float around, hang out on clouds > Then we’ll come down > And have a hangoverrrrrrrrrr… This man was a genius? Don’t get me wrong, I really liked Nirvana, and he had his _moments_ of genius (the lyrics to _Frances Farmer Will Have Her Revenge on Seattle_ come to mind), but I really don’t understand the “genius” label. But I’ve said this before, probably too many times. ---
**Author:** ![Aro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/b3f665/32.png) [@Aro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Aro)\ **Post date:** [June 18, 2002, 9:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045/60 "2002-06-18T09:47:04Z")
I agree with a lot of previous posts. But many listed are just great musicians with a great mind in music. They don’t, to me, expand outside of the realm of music too much. What about Henry Rollins? And a big second to Adam Duritz- Massive Crows fan!. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-greatest-minds-in-rock-and-roll/114045.md?page=4)