# Who are the Gypsies? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cecil's Columns/Staff Reports\ **Created:** [June 26, 2007, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517 "2007-06-26T20:16:14Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/e79b87/32.png) [@Boulter\_s\_Canary](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Boulter_s_Canary)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/21 "2007-06-27T14:02:57Z")
[QUOTE=e-logic] It’s worth noting that it’s not just eastern Europe that is anti-Gypsy. In East Anglia you only need suggest that Travellers are on their way to an area to send the local middle-classes into paroxisms of fear and opposition. > **[BBC NEWS | UK | Rural England, Gypsies and land reform](http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/3635872.stm)** > > Rows over traveller encampments have grown in the past year - but is there hope of change for the better? [/QUOTE] [This](http://www.amazon.co.uk/Radio-Ballads-Vol-8-Travelling-People/dp/B00000JG45/ref=sr_1_27/026-9199978-3420405?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1182952660&sr=1-27) radio documentary, made in the 1960’s ends with a north English town councillor saying that travellers should be exterminated. ---
**Author:** ![OtakuLoki](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/o/ac8455/32.png) [@OtakuLoki](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/OtakuLoki)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/22 "2007-06-27T14:10:03Z")
I just wanted to come in here to add my voice to the chorus. What a great report, thank you **Silenus** and **Gfactor**. (And thanks, second-hand, I guess, to Prof. Hancock for the generosity of his time and knowledge.) ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/23 "2007-06-27T14:57:16Z")
[QUOTE=Great Dave] Kinda like the Brad Pitt character in _Snatch_? [/QUOTE] Brad Pitt’s character in Snatch was an Irish Traveller. It’s long been a habit of British Gypsies to scapegoat others and fall back on the True Gypsy image. Years back, it wouldn’t have been True Romanies that done a foul deed. Oh, no. It was the didikais what done that. In the '70s, that became blaming Irish Travellers, the Tinkers, for it. Cos, y’know, True Romanies are peaceful folk who just keep themselves to themselves. Which is bollocks, of course. Romani folk are just as good at being shitheads as anyone else. This has, to a degree, come back to bite British Gypsies in the arse. Now the image of the traditional ‘True Romany Gypsy’ is somewhat ingrained into the British psyche. If you don’t have a couple of piebald ponies and a wagon then you ain’t a proper Gypsy. ---
**Author:** ![athelas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5e9695/32.png) [@athelas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/athelas)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/24 "2007-06-27T15:26:18Z")
Let me be the first to say: It’s _Captain_ Jack Sparrow. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [June 27, 2007, 5:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/25 "2007-06-27T17:58:56Z")
[QUOTE=John W. Kennedy] One thing that is not dealt with in the report is the sentimentalization of the Gypsy-as-minstrel in Austria, from _Der Zigeunerbaron_ (_The Gypsy Baron_) and _Zigeunerliebe_ (_Gypsy Love_) to _Der Zigeunerprimas_ (hard to translate well – _The Gypsy Violin Leader_) and the throwaway line from _Gräfin Mariza_ (_Countess Maritza_), “When they heard I was engaged, my friends all came to congratulate me with champagne and Gypsies!” _Der Zigeunerprimas_ is especially interesting because the title character is plainly portrayed as a respectable middle-class professional musician. [/QUOTE] In a similar vein was “Love In The Afternoon”, starring Audrey Hepburn as a young Parisian musician who becomes involved with an rich, older, man, who has a troupe of Roma (Correct terminology?) musicians to entertain him. A funny scene is when he is alone in his opulent hotel suite, after breaking up, trying to drink away his troubles while the musicians play. They _all_ drink; the rich man pours a drink then shoves the drinks trolley over to the musicians who also pour themselves drinks. They push the cart back to the man, and so on, several times, with the music becoming more chaotic. ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [June 28, 2007, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/26 "2007-06-28T03:33:53Z")
Fascinating report. I spent some time in southern Spain in the 70s, and the Gypsies there were a very distinct group. Classic romantic stereotype; I saw them traveling in colorful wagon trains in the country and moving through the cities early in the morning. On one college campus in Granada, the students would leave their plates on the tables after they finished eating in the dining hall and they would let the Gypsies come in and finish off all the food. ---
**Author:** ![Freezair\_SilverEye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/b2d939/32.png) [@Freezair\_SilverEye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freezair_SilverEye)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 7:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/27 "2007-06-30T07:27:40Z")
[QUOTE=An Gadaí] In Britain and Ireland, Irish travellers are treated negatively with a variety of derogatory terms including _tinker_, _pikey_, and _knacker_. Travellers are stereotypically seen as illiterate, filthy, trashy, and as beggars, thieves and conmen. There’s an interesting film about a young Irish Traveller girl called [Pavee Lackeen](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0469691/) that’s worth a look. For more information on Irish Travellers check out [Pavee Point](http://www.paveepoint.ie/) . There’s an American film about Irish travellers in the US called funnily enough [Traveller](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0120366/) that I haven’t seen. [Gadje Dilo](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0122082/) is a lovely film about a man visiting a Roma community. [/QUOTE] I’m a bit confused about the term “tinker.” Is it in fact considered offensive? I’ve heard it before, but I didn’t know if it was considered derogatory. Or is it a bit like “mulatto”–offensive to some but not to all? Anyway, exceedingly fascinating report. Very educational. I, too, must confess that I didn’t believe that Gypsies/Romani were a real group (or real groups, as it were) until an embarrassing age. This report taught me a lot, and now I can educate my fellow men that yes, in fact, the Gypsies are real, and no, they will NOT take you away if you don’t get to bed on time. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Nametag](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/nametag/32/406_2.png) [@Nametag](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nametag)\ **Post date:** [June 30, 2007, 7:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/28 "2007-06-30T07:52:56Z")
“Tinker” isn’t offensive in my neck of the woods (uber-PC belt of California). In my experience, it’s just a mostly-obsolete job description. ---
**Author:** ![An\_Gadai](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/d6d6ee/32.png) [@An\_Gadai](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/An_Gadai)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 9:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/29 "2007-07-01T21:03:44Z")
In Ireland tinker is probably one of the milder derogatory terms for travellers. It depends on context really, it began as a job description and is now used I suppose affectionately in the settled populace, for example “You tinker, clean up after yourself” but it still has the connotation of being related to dirtiness. I don’t think I would have the balls to call a traveller a tinker to their face. I believe even the term knacker is used amongst travellers but “traveller” is the politically correct name. Context I suppose is important. ---
**Author:** ![jjimm](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/ba8739/32.png) [@jjimm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jjimm)\ **Post date:** [July 1, 2007, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/30 "2007-07-01T22:36:22Z")
Anecdote alert: my ex-girlfriend’s sister was at a horse fair in County Carlow, Ireland. She was trying to buy a pony from a traveller. The negotiations broke down, so she left, and as she walked away, the traveller who was negotiating with her shouted after her: “feck off ye feckin’ tinker ye!” ---
**Author:** ![Butterscotch](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/dc4da7/32.png) [@Butterscotch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Butterscotch)\ **Post date:** [July 15, 2007, 8:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/31 "2007-07-15T08:04:02Z")
There is an web-site worth a look at [here](http://www.bbc.co.uk/kent/romany_roots/index.shtml) about the Romany community in Kent (England). It details different projects which have been set up to help Romany children understand and be proud of their heritage. There are snippets of interesting info -personal stories, history, photos, etc. ---
**Author:** ![outlierrn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/outlierrn/32/3005_2.png) [@outlierrn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/outlierrn)\ **Post date:** [July 21, 2007, 5:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/32 "2007-07-21T05:56:37Z")
FWIW, I saw the movie “Gypsie Caravan” last night. A musical documentary, 5 different bands from 5 different countries doing a US tour. All identify as roma/romani, quite a few referred to themselves as Gypsies. Decent movie if you want some back story, they do several scenes from their home countries. ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [September 19, 2007, 2:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/33 "2007-09-19T14:14:23Z")
[QUOTE=outlierrn] FWIW, I saw the movie “Gypsie Caravan” last night. A musical documentary, 5 different bands from 5 different countries doing a US tour. All identify as roma/romani, quite a few referred to themselves as Gypsies. Decent movie if you want some back story, they do several scenes from their home countries. [/QUOTE] I finally saw this. I agree. It shows the diversity of the people and their attitudes. [http://www.gypsycaravanmovie.com/](http://www.gypsycaravanmovie.com/). ---
**Author:** ![gonzoron](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/a6a055/32.png) [@gonzoron](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gonzoron)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 3:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/34 "2008-12-30T15:58:17Z")
I’m looking for this column, but since the mailbag became Staff Reports, it seems to have been lost. Any idea where it went? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/35 "2008-12-30T16:01:14Z")
> **[Straight Dope Staff Report: Who are the Gypsies?](http://web.archive.org/web/20080118232125/http://www.straightdope.com/mailbag/mgypsies.htm)** > > Straight Dope Staff Report: Who are the Gypsies? ---
**Author:** ![JillGat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc29f/32.png) [@JillGat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JillGat)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 4:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/36 "2008-12-30T16:50:35Z")
Interesting to read that, in Romani culture, one way to defile another person is to throw shoes at them. ---
**Author:** ![Alan\_Smithee](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/2acd7d/32.png) [@Alan\_Smithee](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alan_Smithee)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/37 "2008-12-30T17:01:48Z")
Weird, I wonder why it disappeared from the current site. It’s a bit of a zombie, but since it’s been revived, I’ll mention that I, too, saw Gypsy Caravan, and I wondered about the Indian group they had. They were from the area in India from which the Gypsy diasproa began, and are decendants of the same root population as the rest of the Gypsies, but it wasn’t clear whether that group currently regards themselves as Gypsies (or Roma), or if they are regarded as such by other Gypsies or by outsiders. Does anyone know? Should I post this in GQ or CS? ---
**Author:** ![Gfactor](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/9de053/32.png) [@Gfactor](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gfactor)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/38 "2008-12-30T17:21:22Z")
> [@Alan\_Smithee](#): > > Weird, I wonder why it disappeared from the current site. The columns and staff reports are being renamed with search engine friendly names. The old versions all had numbers or short keywords for names; the new ones have hyphenated-versions-of-the-title-of-the-piece (e.g., [noparse][http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2252/who-invented-tampons[/noparse]](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2252/who-invented-tampons%5B/noparse%5D)) . Some aren’t renamed yet and hence aren’t in the new database. I’ve had mixed luck finding the old versions on [archive.org](http://archive.org). > [@](#): > > Should I post this in GQ or CS? If you are asking specifically about the movie, you could post in CS; if you are asking factually about the group depicted in the film, GQ is probably a better bet. It’s also fine to post the question here: The thread is revived, and the zombie rules are relaxed in this forum. ---
**Author:** ![Kal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Kal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kal)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/39 "2008-12-30T17:29:07Z")
My understanding is that the Indian group related to the Romani peoples are the Banjara. Both they and Romani intellectuals at least do seem to acknowledge a link. ---
**Author:** ![Ed\_Zotti](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/fbc32d/32.png) [@Ed\_Zotti](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ed_Zotti)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2008, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517/40 "2008-12-30T17:59:39Z")
> [@Gfactor](#): > > The columns and staff reports are being renamed with search engine friendly names. The old versions all had numbers or short keywords for names; the new ones have hyphenated-versions-of-the-title-of-the-piece (e.g., [noparse][http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2252/who-invented-tampons[/noparse]](http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2252/who-invented-tampons%5B/noparse%5D)) . Some aren’t renamed yet and hence aren’t in the new database. I’ve had mixed luck finding the old versions on [archive.org](http://archive.org). We have two problems here: (1) The archive search engine doesn’t find some articles I know are in there, some of which are fairly recent. (2) The URL lookup feature that’s supposed to automatically convert old SD URLs to new ones isn’t working in this instance. I agree this is a pain. I’ve inquired with one of our few remaining tech guys - we’ve had yet another round of layoffs, but I’ll see what I can do. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-gypsies/409517.md?page=3)