# Who are the protesters in Spain, Italy, Greece, & Portugal protesting? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 14, 2012, 2:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981 "2012-11-14T14:46:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 14\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 8:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/61 "2012-11-18T08:16:28Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > well aware of what “ironic” means…and it does apply…he stated that, regarding a topic about USA jobs outsourced, that the only USA product on the shelves in his area were Hershey bars…when, in fact, those are now made in a plant in MX …actually USA jobs being outsourced is irrelevant. You presented a theory regarding the country of origin of products and the relationship of the absence of products to the degree of socialistic free loaders. I tested your theory. I don’t recall seeing any US products in the last week. According to your theory: what does this mean? ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 7:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/62 "2012-11-18T19:51:52Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …actually USA jobs being outsourced is irrelevant. You presented a theory regarding the country of origin of products and the relationship of the absence of products to the degree of socialistic free loaders. > > I tested your theory. I don’t recall seeing any US products in the last week. > > According to your theory: what does this mean? It means you didn’t look very hard…the USA & NZ trade at an even $4 billion a year, bilaterally ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/63 "2012-11-18T20:47:05Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > It means you didn’t look very hard…the USA & NZ trade at an even $4 billion a year, bilaterally …and with all that money spent I still didn’t see any products: which means your theory is rubbish. ---
**Author:** ![Fear\_Itself](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/fear_itself/32/19637_2.png) [@Fear\_Itself](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fear_Itself)\ **Post date:** [November 18, 2012, 9:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/64 "2012-11-18T21:11:10Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …and with all that money spent I still didn’t see any products: which means your theory is rubbish. I have never met anyone from New Zealand, therefore none have ever visited the US. ---
**Author:** ![cougar58](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f07891/32.png) [@cougar58](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cougar58)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/65 "2012-11-19T15:07:49Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …and with all that money spent I still didn’t see any products: which means your theory is rubbish. 'No country can sustain, in idleness, more than a small percentage of its numbers. The great majority must labor at something productive." –Abe Lincoln, September 30, 1859 ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 4:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/66 "2012-11-19T16:45:45Z")
> [@Banquet\_Bear](#): > > …and with all that money spent I still didn’t see any products: which means your theory is rubbish. If you saw any Volkswagen, Opel or Toyotas, to name a few, it’s possible you saw something Made in Spain: you just didn’t know it. ---
**Author:** ![tagos](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@tagos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tagos)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/67 "2012-11-19T16:55:48Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > Let’s also remember the banks were allowed to do so by politicians who were as greedy as the bankers, and that often the people taking loans they could not pay were as greedy as the other two, trying to “make a kill” by flipping flats they could not even afford. > > Let’s remember those same politicians retire and become… bankers. By bailing out the banks, they’re just keeping their leather armchairs buffed. There’s a revolving door between Goldman-Sachs and western governments. There should be a Financial Crimes Against Humanity series of trials followed by many hangings of bankers and their political allies. ---
**Author:** ![Latro](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a87d85/32.png) [@Latro](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Latro)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/68 "2012-11-19T17:17:01Z")
Ah ! ça ira, ça ira, ça ira… ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/69 "2012-11-19T17:47:21Z")
nm ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/70 "2012-11-19T17:48:31Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > quick …name 10 products you saw in the past week, that were made in: > > 1. Germany > > 2. Greece > > 3. Spain > > 4. Italy > > Germany makes at least 5 mass produced cars (BMW, Audi, Mercedes, VW, Porsche), many industrial machines and controls, & power generation systems (Siemens), computers & software (SAP), tennis shoes (Addidas & Puma), CNC machines, I don’t what products are common in the USA, but northern Italy is the most productive region of Europe. Off the top of my head are: Fiat (Chrysler), the Fiat-500 is everywhere around here, also Alfa Romeo, Ferrari, Lamborghini, Maserati. Pirelli. Piaggio. Ansaldo Breda. Olivetti. Augusta Westland. A number of fashion brands, and food brands. A washing machine maker I can’t remember the name of. Some luxury yacht manufactures. Germany also makes Opel. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/71 "2012-11-19T17:49:49Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > A washing machine maker I can’t remember the name of. Some luxury yacht manufactures. Zanussi. ---
**Author:** ![ed\_anger](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/bbce88/32.png) [@ed\_anger](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ed_anger)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/72 "2012-11-19T18:29:43Z")
> [@tagos](#): > > There’s a revolving door between Goldman-Sachs and western governments. There should be a Financial Crimes Against Humanity series of trials followed by many hangings of bankers and their political allies. feel free to move anywhere on this continuum, for our rulers it’s all the same thing: government—lobbyists—financial institutions ---
**Author:** ![Learjeff](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/94ad74/32.png) [@Learjeff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Learjeff)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 6:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/73 "2012-11-19T18:33:34Z")
> [@LinusK](#): > > Well, let me say this. You know, of course, that we’re not on the gold standard anymore. Instead, we use made-up money, in the sense that it’s made by bankers, especially central bankers. It’s not dug up out of holes in the ground. So it might be better to say, “whoever controls the central bank makes the rules.” And that would be 100% correct. > > And in the case of Europe, the rules the bankers are making suck balls, because they’re making _un_employment rather than employment, which is the opposite of what any sane policy would do. > > Because ultimately the wealth of a nation is determined not by weights of gold or bags of coins or by dollars or euros, but by the value of the goods and services created by the workers. “Labour was the first price, the original purchase-money that was paid for all things. It was not by gold or by silver, but by labour, that all the wealth of the world was originally purchased.” (You agree with that, right?) > > So any policy that puts people out of work makes a country poorer; and any policy that puts people to work makes a country richer. So, are you saying that printing more money has no downside? They could just print more Euros, and gee, everyone would be happier? > [@](#): > > So why in the world are the authorities in Europe pursuing a policy that impoverishes Greece while at the same time attempting to obtain wealth from it? That’s just insane, right? I mean, how can you expect to obtain goods and services from a country while putting its workers out of work? If Greece had its own currency, then it would have a completely different problem. They’d print more money, and Greeks would see their buying power for imports erode, while their exports would be more competitive. But they don’t have their own currency; they joined the EEC. It was joining the EEC that started them on the spending spree in the first place (since they couldn’t spend what they didn’t have, before, and didn’t make what they spent it on). So, since they don’t have their own currency, whenever the currency is devalued by increasing the monetary supply, everyone else pays for it: especially the most productive countries. Who do the Greeks think should be paying for their excessive government spending? > [@](#): > > You say throwing money at people isn’t going to help them produce “more”. What “more” are you talking about? More money? More stuff? (And if its more stuff, isn’t that exactly how you get people to produce more?) You get people to produce more by paying them for what they produce, not by paying them whether they produce or not. ---
**Author:** ![Banquet\_Bear](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/banquet_bear/32/373_2.png) [@Banquet\_Bear](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Banquet_Bear)\ **Post date:** [November 19, 2012, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981/74 "2012-11-19T20:11:15Z")
> [@cougar58](#): > > 'No country can sustain, in idleness, more than a small percentage of its numbers. The great majority must labor at something productive." > –Abe Lincoln, September 30, 1859 …and your quote doesn’t make your theory any less rubbish. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-protesters-in-spain-italy-greece-portugal-protesting/640981.md?page=3)