# Who are the scariest prominent conservatives who are not household names? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [November 15, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686 "2009-11-15T20:58:27Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 8:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/1 "2009-11-15T20:58:27Z")
So the thread is precisely what it is asking for. This is really just asking for opinions but I figure people will start debating, if the mods want it in IMHO that’s cool. The rules of the thread: All celebrities are off-limits. If there has ever been a thread about them on this forum, they are basically out. That means no Dick Cheney, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Tom DeLay, Ron Paul or anyone like that. My contribution: Gary North and Rev. Rousas John Rushdoony > **[Reasonable Doubts: Invitation to a Stoning](https://reason.com/1998/11/01/invitation-to-a-stoning/)** > > Getting cozy with theocrats > [@](#): > > For connoisseurs of surrealism on the American right, it’s hard to beat an exchange that appeared about a decade ago in the Heritage Foundation magazine Policy Review. It started when two associates of the Rev. Jerry Falwell wrote an article which criticized Christian Reconstructionism, the influential movement led by theologian Rousas John (R.J.) Rushdoony, for advocating positions that even they as committed fundamentalists found “scary.” Among Reconstructionism’s highlights, the article cited support for laws “mandating the death penalty for homosexuals and drunkards.” The Rev. Rushdoony fired off a letter to the editor complaining that the article had got his followers’ views all wrong: They didn’t intend to put drunkards to death. > > Ah, yes, accuracy does count. In a world run by Rushdoony followers, sots would escape capital punishment–which would make them happy exceptions indeed. Those who would face execution include not only gays but a very long list of others: blasphemers, heretics, apostate Christians, people who cursed or struck their parents, females guilty of “unchastity before marriage,” “incorrigible” juvenile delinquents, adulterers, and (probably) telephone psychics. And that’s to say nothing of murderers and those guilty of raping married women or “betrothed virgins.” Adulterers, among others, might meet their doom by being publicly stoned–a rather abrupt way for the Clinton presidency to end. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/2 "2009-11-15T21:00:47Z")
Lyndon La Douche. Excuse, Larouche. Sorry. ---
**Author:** ![RickJay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/bb73d2/32.png) [@RickJay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RickJay)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/3 "2009-11-15T21:05:14Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Lyndon La Douche. Excuse, Larouche. Sorry. LaRouche isn’t famous? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/4 "2009-11-15T21:05:31Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > Lyndon La Douche. Excuse, Larouche. Sorry. Heh, I would put him as being more on the celebrity side of things, but some people may not know about him. Though I’d prefer it if people actually showed their work rather than just throwing decontextualized name dropping into the mix. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/5 "2009-11-15T21:07:36Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > So the thread is precisely what it is asking for. This is really just asking for opinions but I figure people will start debating, if the mods want it in IMHO that’s cool. > > The rules of the thread: All celebrities are off-limits. If there has ever been a thread about them on this forum, they are basically out. That means no Dick Cheney, Glenn Beck, Sarah Palin, Michelle Bachmann, Rush Limbaugh, Newt Gingrich, Tom DeLay, Ron Paul or anyone like that. > > My contribution: > > Gary North and Rev. Rousas John Rushdoony > > [http://reason.com/archives/1998/11/01/invitation-to-a-stoning/singlepage](http://reason.com/archives/1998/11/01/invitation-to-a-stoning/singlepage) You seem to be (deliberately) confusing fringe lunatics with prominent conservatives. Well played. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/6 "2009-11-15T21:10:43Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > You seem to be (deliberately) confusing fringe lunatics with prominent conservatives. Well played. No actually, I had a more granular view of it than that. I’m seeking something that’s in between fringe lunatic (Timothy McVeigh) and prominent celebrity (Sarah Palin). ---
**Author:** ![John\_Mace](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_mace/32/185_2.png) [@John\_Mace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_Mace)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/7 "2009-11-15T21:17:40Z")
What do your mean by [prominent](http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/prominent)? > [@](#): > > 1. standing out so as to be seen easily; conspicuous; particularly noticeable: Her eyes are her most prominent feature. > 2. standing out beyond the adjacent surface or line; projecting. > 3. leading, important, or well-known: a prominent citizen. Seems like something akin to celebrity goes with the territory. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/8 "2009-11-15T21:19:29Z")
I have no more comments regarding the semantic nitpick of the term ‘prominent’. Just state your case regarding your particular public semi-public figure. The rest of it is a waste of time. ---
**Author:** ![elucidator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/8edcca/32.png) [@elucidator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/elucidator)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/9 "2009-11-15T21:19:32Z")
So, we’re looking for prominent, but not particularly famous? Like, John “Kill 'em all!” Bolton? ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/10 "2009-11-15T21:22:15Z")
> [@elucidator](#): > > So, we’re looking for prominent, but not particularly famous? Like, John “Kill 'em all!” Bolton? I guess. I would argue that he’s pretty famous, but not Sarah Palin famous. Basically I am looking for the C and D list of famous scary conservatives. John Bolton would be B-List by my estimation with Sarah Palin being A-List, but if you think it’s appropriate by all means. Who I have heard of and who everyone else on the forum has heard of are different animals. Basically, to put it simply, lets get ourselves a cast of characters that we don’t bitch about a lot already. Lets bring some new faces on the scene. ---
**Author:** ![Indistinguishable](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/90ced4/32.png) [@Indistinguishable](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Indistinguishable)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/11 "2009-11-15T21:28:53Z")
(In case anyone doesn’t realize, Rushdoony died in 2001, so I’d hardly consider him a particularly scary figure anymore.) ---
**Author:** ![raindog](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/2bfe46/32.png) [@raindog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/raindog)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/12 "2009-11-15T21:33:15Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > You seem to be (deliberately) confusing fringe lunatics with prominent conservatives. Well played. mswas. What he said. Kinda. IMV, not well played, but disingenuous at best, juvenile at worst. Can we expect a similar thread that lists NAMBLA as liberals, among others? (ftr, I’m not a conservative and have no dog in this fight) ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 9:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/13 "2009-11-15T21:33:20Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > (In case anyone doesn’t realize, Rushdoony died in 2001, so I’d hardly consider him a particularly scary figure anymore.) Right. I was starting with Gary North really, and I kind of tacked Rushdoony on there. You’re correct though. But it’s looking like people aren’t actually interested in the thread, so if it gets to post 20 without another real response rather than a nitpick of the way the OP is posted, I’ll probably bow out. ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 10:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/14 "2009-11-15T22:01:32Z")
> [@Indistinguishable](#): > > (In case anyone doesn’t realize, Rushdoony died in 2001, so I’d hardly consider him a particularly scary figure anymore.) Well, unless he’s a gh-gh-gh-ghost! ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/15 "2009-11-15T22:02:04Z")
[Willis Carto:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto) Antisemite, Holocaust denier, conspiracy theorist. Campaigned for George Wallace for president in 1968; turned Youth for George Wallace into the National Youth Alliance, which later became the neo-Nazi [National Alliance.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(United_States)) Founded the [Populist Party](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populist_Party_(United_States)#Populist_Party_.28right-wing.29) (which ran David Duke and Bo Gritz for president), the [Liberty Lobby](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Lobby) (which wanted to “repatriate” all African-Americans to Africa), and the [_American Free Press_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Free_Press) (which still exists). [Bo Gritz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz) (rhymes with "rights): The same only more violent. “New World Order” conspiracy theorist, former Army Special Forces officer, Vietnam vet, spent years after the war claiming there were still American POWs in Vietnam. Ran for president on the Populist Party ticket in 1992. Taught a survivalist course in the '90s in anticipation of general social collapse in the U.S., established a sort of “Patriot” base/commune in Idaho. Unlike Carto, however, he disavows racism. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 10:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/16 "2009-11-15T22:03:40Z")
> [@mswas](#): > > Right. I was starting with Gary North really, and I kind of tacked Rushdoony on there. You’re correct though. > > But it’s looking like people aren’t actually interested in the thread, so if it gets to post 20 without another real response rather than a nitpick of the way the OP is posted, I’ll probably bow out. Well, to keep the nitpicking going… John Mace pointed out that your use of the word “prominent” is interesting, but I think your use of “conservative” is even more so: > [@](#): > > n. > The inclination, especially in politics, to maintain the existing or traditional order. > A political philosophy or attitude emphasizing respect for traditional institutions, distrust of government activism, and opposition to sudden change in the established order. Advocating for a theocracy unknown in America since well before the creation of the United States - to my knowledge, these groups explicitly disavow the Constitution - doesn’t sound very conservative to me. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 10:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/17 "2009-11-15T22:08:30Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > [Willis Carto:](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Willis_Carto) Antisemite, Holocaust denier, conspiracy theorist. Campaigned for George Wallace for president in 1968; turned Youth for George Wallace into the National Youth Alliance, which later became the neo-Nazi [National Alliance.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Alliance_(United_States)) Founded the [Populist Party](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Populist_Party_(United_States)#Populist_Party_.28right-wing.29) (which ran David Duke and Bo Gritz for president), the [Liberty Lobby](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liberty_Lobby) (which wanted to “repatriate” all African-Americans to Africa), and the [_American Free Press_](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_Free_Press) (which still exists). > > [Bo Gritz](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bo_Gritz) (rhymes with "rights): The same only more violent. “New World Order” conspiracy theorist, former Army Special Forces officer, Vietnam vet, spent years after the war claiming there were still American POWs in Vietnam. Ran for president on the Populist Party ticket in 1992. Taught a survivalist course in the '90s in anticipation of general social collapse in the U.S., established a sort of “Patriot” base/commune in Idaho. Unlike Carto, however, he disavows racism. I knew I could count on you. 😉 Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![mswas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/e99b99/32.png) [@mswas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mswas)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 10:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/18 "2009-11-15T22:09:32Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Advocating for a theocracy unknown in America since well before the creation of the United States - to my knowledge, these groups explicitly disavow the Constitution - doesn’t sound very conservative to me. Fair enough, but this doesn’t dispute that Reconstructionism has a voice in religious right. If you’d like to discuss the relative influence of reconstructionists, that would be more interesting. ---
**Author:** ![Kimstu](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/ecd19e/32.png) [@Kimstu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kimstu)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 10:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/19 "2009-11-15T22:23:47Z")
> [@Shmendrik](#): > > Advocating for a theocracy unknown in America since well before the creation of the United States - to my knowledge, these groups explicitly disavow the Constitution - doesn’t sound very conservative to me. Well, you’ll have to argue the point with Christian Reconstructionist Gary North himself, who [explicitly identifies as a conservative](http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north180.html): > [@Gary North](#): > > Criticism of neoconservatism from the paleoconservative Right has also escalated. […] > > The paleos resent the neocons for the same reasons that their spiritual forbears, the Taft Republicans, resented the post-war foreign policy interventionism of both Democrats and Republicans […] > > I am a paleo, but with distinctions. The OP’s attempt to draw distinctions between “prominent” vs. “household name” or “C list” vs. “B list” figures seems pretty unworkable to me, but putting the likes of Gary North in the “conservative” category seems reasonable. I don’t see how North can be plausibly True-Scotsmanned out of the “conservative” label that he claims for himself. ---
**Author:** ![Shmendrik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ee7513/32.png) [@Shmendrik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shmendrik)\ **Post date:** [November 15, 2009, 10:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686/20 "2009-11-15T22:33:40Z")
> [@Kimstu](#): > > Well, you’ll have to argue the point with Christian Reconstructionist Gary North himself, who [explicitly identifies as a conservative](http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north180.html): > > The OP’s attempt to draw distinctions between “prominent” vs. “household name” or “C list” vs. “B list” figures seems pretty unworkable to me, but putting the likes of Gary North in the “conservative” category seems reasonable. I don’t see how North can be plausibly True-Scotsmanned out of the “conservative” label that he claims for himself. He wasn’t True-Scotsmanned out of it; he simply doesn’t fit the definition. He can call himself whatever he likes, but I think these quotes speak for themselves. [QUOTE=GaryNorth] So let us be blunt about it: we must use the doctrine of religious liberty to gain independence for Christian schools until we train up a generation of people who know that there is no religious neutrality, no neutral law, no neutral education, and no neutral civil government. Then they will get busy in constructing a Bible-based social, political, and religious order which finally denies the religious liberty of the enemies of God. [/QUOTE] [QUOTE=GaryNorth] By what biblical standard is the pagan to be granted the right to bring political sanctions against God’s people? We recognize that unbelievers are not to vote in Church elections. Why should they be allowed to vote in civil elections in a covenanted Christian nation? Which judicial standards will they impose? By what other standard than the Bible?" [/QUOTE] [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-scariest-prominent-conservatives-who-are-not-household-names/517686.md?page=2)