# Who are the strongest contenders for the title of "greatest American rock band ever"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547 "2018-05-04T02:32:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 11
**Author:** ![Covfefe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ee7513/32.png) [@Covfefe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Covfefe)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/201 "2018-05-07T22:38:53Z")
Saint Vitus damn well could have been had those guys not been born too late ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/202 "2018-05-07T22:47:24Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > So, yeah, he’s not a fan. But at least he doesn’t feel about them the way he feels about Kenny G - he fucking _hates_ Kenny G. Pat always did have his head on straight. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 10:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/203 "2018-05-07T22:48:54Z")
> [@Clawdio](#): > > The problem with the \*\*Grateful Dead \*\*& \*\*Allman Brothers \*\*(in the context of this thread) to me is that your average person on the street doesn’t know any of the songs. Has everyone heard of them? Yes. But no one outside of the hardcore fans knows any songs. I’m pretty sure most casual listeners would know “Ramblin’ Man.” ---
**Author:** ![Guest-starring\_Id](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/guest-starring_id/32/21736_2.png) [@Guest-starring\_Id](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Guest-starring_Id)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 11:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/204 "2018-05-07T23:06:24Z")
Probably I’d say Orleans. (“Dance With Me”) ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/205 "2018-05-08T00:25:10Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#): > > Probably I’d say Orleans. > (“Dance With Me”) Dude, if you’re gonna offer Orleans, state their best song: You’re Still The One. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![glowacks](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/glowacks/32/5548_2.png) [@glowacks](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/glowacks)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/206 "2018-05-08T03:33:27Z")
If you ignore the fact that “American” really means “United Statesian”, the answer is clearly Rush, who are clearly from a place that is part of America. I’m probably biased toward them since I’m a pretty big fan though. I think I would go with Van Halen personally. I don’t really like them that all that much, but any history of rock music discussion is going to include them if only for “Eruption” as well as the wave of similar bands they started. They were extremely popular with several number 1 albums and managed to survive a change in lead singers. The only ones that I think come close in terms of popularity and longevity are Aerosmith, and they’re not as notable historically. Everyone else mentioned isn’t really a band or really isn’t all that widely popular. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Rind](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pork_rind/32/111_2.png) [@Pork\_Rind](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Rind)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 3:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/207 "2018-05-08T03:40:31Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Dude, if you’re gonna offer Orleans, state their best song: You’re Still The One. 😉 Since you just put that in my head, let me return the favor with this “[cover](https://youtu.be/pypejH5ylis)” of that tune. That must have been an impressionable year for me, as I still get that stuck on a loop from time to time. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/208 "2018-05-08T04:37:19Z")
> [@glowacks](#): > > If you ignore the fact that “American” really means “United Statesian”, the answer is clearly Rush, who are clearly from a place that is part of America. I’m probably biased toward them since I’m a pretty big fan though. As an American who spends a lot of time in Canada, I’ve never encountered anyone who felt this way. The distinction between “American” and “Canadian” is readily understood, and “American” is almost universally recognized as shorthand for “from the United States of America.” I’ve never, ever heard a Canadian say, “we’re part of North America, so we’re technically American too.” If anything, they’re proud NOT to be associated with the US. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 4:45am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/209 "2018-05-08T04:45:44Z")
> [@Clawdio](#): > > Also, I don’t get why the Ramones get so much credit for influencing punk/hardcore. I mean Black Sabbath was playing Paranoid in 1969 and put it out on record in 1970, and that sounds more punk and hardcore to me than anything I’ve ever heard by the Ramones who didn’t put their first record until 1976. I _love_ Paranoid, but I do _not_ think of it as some kind of proto-punk rock. If anything, I’d say it was reminiscent of Zeppelin. I’m not a huge fan of the Ramones or of punk rock generally, but I can understand the idiom and understand the importance of the Ramones. The Ramones introduced punk rock concepts that Black Sabbath did not use: Simplicity Repetition Playfulness If anything, they were drawing from pop traditions, not hard rock ones. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 9:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/210 "2018-05-08T09:05:15Z")
> [@Pork\_Rind](#): > > Since you just put that in my head, let me return the favor with this “[cover](https://youtu.be/pypejH5ylis)” of that tune. That must have been an impressionable year for me, as I still get that stuck on a loop from time to time. Aahhgg!! Don’t _do_ that! 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 10:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/211 "2018-05-08T10:05:14Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > …I’ve never, ever heard a Canadian say, “we’re part of North America, so we’re technically American too.” If anything, they’re proud NOT to be associated with the US. Especially these days, yes. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 11:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/212 "2018-05-08T11:41:50Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I _love_ Paranoid, but I do _not_ think of it as some kind of proto-punk rock. If anything, I’d say it was reminiscent of Zeppelin. > > I’m not a huge fan of the Ramones or of punk rock generally, but I can understand the idiom and understand the importance of the Ramones. The Ramones introduced punk rock concepts that Black Sabbath did not use: > > Simplicity > Repetition > Playfulness > > If anything, they were drawing from pop traditions, not hard rock ones. Sabbath is awesome, but I’d say they’re the godfathers of heavy metal. Ramones are the progenitors (or one of the progenitors) of punk. Two different genres (although they did eventually cross pollinate). ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/213 "2018-05-08T12:19:44Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > based upon objective criteria such as musicianship, a coherent body of work, and continuing influence. > > Based on those criteria, my top pick would be the Grateful Dead. Like some other perennial Doper favourites (Rush, for one), any judgement on “continuing influence” is going to have to take into account the fact that the Dead are not all that well known in some other parts of the world. I mean, I know who they are, but I’ve only, _ever_ heard them incidentally. I could not pick out a song of theirs, and I’ve never seen a video of them. They did not get much airplay in South Africa, not even on oldies and blues shows. I could probably sit down and name 50 more influential rock acts here without really thinking. My answer to the OP would be the **Beach Boys**. I mean, _Pet Sounds_ alone… ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/214 "2018-05-08T12:36:59Z")
> [@ZonexandScout](#): > > This opens things up a bit. I commented on Cheap Trick earlier and it’s certainly the case that they are/were hugely popular in Japan. Again, nearly completely unknown in South Africa. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/215 "2018-05-08T12:49:50Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > the Ramones are a cultural touchstone for everyone in the punk rock scene No, they’re really, _really_ not. I know, as trivia, that punk “started” in NY, and that the Ramones are “punk”, but the scene here starts with the UK in '76 and only really _notices_ the US when Hardcore kicks in. Here, the Ramones are a footnote, not a touchstone. Lots of people wearing Ramones t-shirts, though - but less than the number wearing Misfits shirts, and orders of magnitude more than could name a Ramones song. Because the answer to > [@pulykamell](#): > > Maybe it’s a fashion thing is “yes” ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/216 "2018-05-08T12:57:46Z")
> [@Penfeather](#): > > No Ramones, no Sex Pistols. Tell that to [John Lydon](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sex_Pistols#Building_a_following): > [@](#): > > Lydon has repeatedly rejected any suggestion that it influenced the Sex Pistols: “[The Ramones] were all long-haired and of no interest to me. I didn’t like their image, what they stood for, or anything about them. They were hilarious but you can only go so far with ‘duh-dur-dur-duh’. I’ve heard it. Next. Move on.” “No New York Dolls, no Sex Pistols”, I could understand. But the Ramones? Naaah. ---
**Author:** ![Leaffan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/leaffan/32/299_2.png) [@Leaffan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaffan)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 12:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/217 "2018-05-08T12:59:22Z")
> [@MrDibble](#): > > Like some other perennial Doper favourites (Rush, for one), any judgement on “continuing influence” is going to have to take into account the fact that the Dead are not all that well known in some other parts of the world. I mean, I know who they are, but I’ve only, _ever_ heard them incidentally. I could not pick out a song of theirs, and I’ve never seen a video of them. They did not get much airplay in South Africa, not even on oldies and blues shows. I could probably sit down and name 50 more influential rock acts here without really thinking. > > My answer to the OP would be the **Beach Boys**. I mean, _Pet Sounds_ alone… What I’ve been saying all along. Apparently I know two Grateful Dead songs and one Ramones’ song. Not really internationally influencial! The Beach Boys win this title by a landslide. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/218 "2018-05-08T13:12:57Z")
Like I said, I know 0 Dead songs. I do know “I Wanna Be Sedated”, but that’s from recent VH1 plays, not from my days as a punk kid. However, I’m all about the Velvet Underground and the Stooges. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/219 "2018-05-08T13:17:15Z")
> [@Leaffan](#): > > The Beach Boys win this title by a landslide. The funny thing, for me, is the OP started talking about the Beatles as a given for GOAT, but “no _Pet Sounds,_ no _Sgt. Pepper’s Lonely Hearts Club Band_” is [easy to show](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sgt._Pepper%27s_Lonely_Hearts_Club_Band#Concept_and_inspiration). Unlike, say, the Ramones’ supposed influence on the Pistols ---
**Author:** ![digs](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/digs/32/14889_2.png) [@digs](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/digs)\ **Post date:** [May 8, 2018, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/220 "2018-05-08T13:43:25Z")
Aren’t you glad you don’t have an editor yelling at you “Hey, where’s that article _‘Greatest American rock band ever’?"_ You’ve had a whole day, and we go to press in an hour. Who’d you pick?” Random reactions to random comments: > [@Jacquernagy](#): > > A lot of jam band music can arguably be called “jazz in approach” but not “jazz in sound.” It’s not a coincidence that a number of jazz fusion musicians of the 70s and 80s later trickled down into the jam band scene, like John Scofield and Kenwood Dennard, and it’s not a coincidence that Trey Anastasio has acknowledged Pat Metheny as a major influence on his playing. You can hear the similarity in Metheny’s solo, for instance, on [In France They Kiss On Main Street](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xgjdm5qXTX4) from Joni Mitchell’s _Shadows and Light_ tour (also featuring a ridiculously good bass part by none other than Jaco Pastorius.) ## If anyone doesn’t have the Joni Mitchell albums with that band (Shadows & Light and the live Miles of Aisles), it’s an amazing live band… Tasty Guitar; Pat Metheny Keyboards; Lyle Mays Amazing Bass; Jaco Pastorius Drums; Dom Alias 90s Sax; Michael Brecker Guitar (mostly electric); Joni Mitchell DooWop Vocals; The Persuasions > [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I don’t know what you mean exactly by “challenging”. My point is that Jerry Garcia’s vocals were _not_ challenging… > Jerry Garcia’s voice was just effortless, conversational, naturalistic-sounding, colloquial, however you want to put it - it just sounded like “friendly dude who’s telling you an entertaining/interesting story”. He wasn’t straining or grinding out every note with a gravelly tone, a high pitched wine, any kind of polished vibrato or falsetto - his voice just sounded like a dude’s voice. I totally agree on Jerry’s ‘ordinariness’. A bandmate who knew his shit once made the comment that Jerry Garcia and Jackson Browne had no vibrato. If (like me) you’re not wild about Jerry’s vocals, don’t forget all the great Bob Weir tunes that Jerry mostly just played guitar on. Seriously, do listen to \*“Cassidy” \*-- moody masterpiece (nice guitar licks, evocative lyrics --Robert Hunter?-- and great vocals… with vibrato!). Here’s the [Dead version](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3aMBIeD0ThU), but it’s on Weir’s beautiful “Ace” album. And a recent acoustic trio: ![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/uVYW-IleB20/maxresdefault.jpg)https://www.youtube.com/embed/uVYW-IleB20?feature=oembed&wmode=opaque&list=RDEWsrEI9G_rM And another Bob Weir tune, just to prove he can sing: [![](https://img.youtube.com/vi/Bzn8w9Zkxm8/maxresdefault.jpg "Looks Like Rain (Bob Weir) - TRI Studios - 5/13/2011") ](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bzn8w9Zkxm8) [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547.md?page=10) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547.md?page=12)