# Who are the strongest contenders for the title of "greatest American rock band ever"?
**URL:** https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547
**Category:** Cafe Society
**Created:** [May 4, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547 "2018-05-04T02:32:30Z")
**Posts on this page:** 20
**Page:** 15
### Author:  [@Snarky\_Kong](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snarky_Kong)
#### Post date: [May 10, 2018, 7:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/281 "2018-05-10T19:43:52Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#):
>
> Anyone who thinks the Dead lack “energy”, I don’t even know what the hell to say. They have more musical stamina than any band I’ve ever heard (maybe with the exception of the Allman Bros.) to power through extended jam after extended jam.
I’m going to sleep longer tonight that a Dead concert, but that doesn’t mean my snoring has energy.
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### Author:  [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 10:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/282 "2018-05-18T10:10:05Z")
Late to the party, but want to add votes for R.E.M. and Van Halen.
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### Author:  [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 10:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/283 "2018-05-18T10:36:49Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#):
>
> In _my_ own opinion, the question of songwriting does not really play a role. It’s cool to have a band that has a coherent, continuous, and unique writing style derived from its own members, but it’s not necessary, as long as whoever _did_ write the songs is talented. …God knows Led Zeppelin didn’t write a lot of their songs, but that doesn’t stop me from considering them an outstanding band.
>
> If every single one of the Beatles’ songs were written by separate songwriters who weren’t part of the band, it would not remotely make them any less great, in my opinion.
I couldn’t disagree with you more. The genius of Lennon and McCartney as songwriters is the primary reason the Beatles were great, IMHO.
Also: Plant and Page are credited songwriters on 80%+ of Zeppelin’s album tracks. Bonham and Jones get plenty of credits, too.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/284 "2018-05-18T11:01:49Z")
> [@LLCoolL](#):
>
> I couldn’t disagree with you more. The genius of Lennon and McCartney as songwriters is the primary reason the Beatles were great, IMHO.
>
> Also: Plant and Page are credited songwriters on 80%+ of Zeppelin’s album tracks. Bonham and Jones get plenty of credits, too.
The reference to Zep is the fact that they ripped off a bunch of blues players like Willie Dixon in creating their Zep versions of songs. The songs are often significantly different, but Zep should’ve included songwriting credits to the original writers of the song, period.
Yes, songwriting totally matters. It is, to me, one of the defining characteristics of rock n’ roll.
\*\*Danger \*\*+ **Your Songs** (which cross genres) + **Using Cheaper, More Accessible Instruments & Technology to Sound Big = Rock**
Elvis had songs that folks thought of as “his,” even though he didn’t write them. That’s All Right Mama, Heartbreak Hotel, Jailhouse Rock - but it feels like a reasonable argument to assert that over time, Chuck Berry will outstrip Elvis in importance, in large part because he wrote his own songs and redefined guitar by coming up with licks that mimic’d horn lines of the fancier bands.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 11:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/285 "2018-05-18T11:31:38Z")
I suppose there should be something like “crossing genres, with an emphasis on poorer-class genres from the early 20th century- Blues, Country, Gospel, Folk”
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### Author:  [@RTFirefly](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RTFirefly)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 4:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/286 "2018-05-18T16:06:58Z")
> [@Guest-starring\_Id](#):
>
> Maybe a toss-up between [Bubble Puppy 🙂](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qja2ptq_p7I) and [Immolation](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ljhLSb-0rM4).
Can’t believe I actually remembered what song was Bubble Puppy’s claim to fame before I clicked the link.
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/287 "2018-05-18T16:12:38Z")
Late to the voting, but how about Heart as a choice? And I forget, did anyone mentione Jefferson Airplane/Starship?
My personal vote still leans to The Eagles, maybe the Doors. They seem the most “American”, even more than America. 🙂
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### Author:  [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 6:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/288 "2018-05-18T18:46:06Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> The reference to Zep is the fact that they ripped off a bunch of blues players like Willie Dixon in creating their Zep versions of songs. The songs are often significantly different, but Zep should’ve included songwriting credits to the original writers of the song, period. …
Willie Dixon gets songwriting credits on a few songs on Zeppelin’s first couple of albums. Memphis Minnie gets a credit on “When the Levee Breaks”. That’s about it, though.
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### Author:  [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/289 "2018-05-18T19:40:09Z")
> [@RTFirefly](#):
>
> Can’t believe I actually remembered what song was Bubble Puppy’s claim to fame before I clicked the link.
I love “Hot Smoke and Sassafras”! Didn’t have to look it up, either.
> [@LLCoolL](#):
>
> Willie Dixon gets songwriting credits on a few songs on Zeppelin’s first couple of albums. Memphis Minnie gets a credit on “When the Levee Breaks”. That’s about it, though.
They didn’t when the albums first came out. The co-writing credits only appear on the cuts for which lawsuits were successful.
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### Author:  [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/290 "2018-05-18T20:02:09Z")
> [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](#):
>
> My personal vote still leans to The Eagles, maybe the Doors. They seem the most “American”, even more than America. 🙂
You could, if you wanted, now bring this whole thing full circle by singing along to a British version of a Russian version of the Beach Boys. 😉
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### Author:  [@Whack-a-Mole](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Whack-a-Mole)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/291 "2018-05-18T20:29:17Z")
nm
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### Author:  [@Just\_Asking\_Questions](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Just_Asking_Questions)
#### Post date: [May 18, 2018, 10:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/292 "2018-05-18T22:54:26Z")
> [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](#):
>
> You could, if you wanted, now bring this whole thing full circle by singing along to a British version of a Russian version of the Beach Boys. 😉
I prefer Les Garçons de la Plage.
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### Author:  [@whispers\_of\_xanadu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/whispers_of_xanadu)
#### Post date: [May 21, 2018, 1:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/293 "2018-05-21T13:19:32Z")
The Music Machine. Only had 1 song on the charts. Their influence extended to the Doors and the Ramones who were both highly influential.
The Ramones to me were the most important but personally the Music Machine is my choice for changing the tone and volume of pop music.
Grateful Dead doesn’t make me want to fight or fornicate so they’re disqualified.
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### Author:  [@LLCoolL](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LLCoolL)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2018, 8:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/294 "2018-05-23T08:18:20Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#):
>
> …They (credits for Willie Dixon and Memphie Minnie on select Zeppelin songs) didn’t when the albums first came out. The co-writing credits only appear on the cuts for which lawsuits were successful.
I did not know that. Thanks for educating me.
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2018, 10:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/295 "2018-05-23T10:31:33Z")
A lot of those old blues songs were handed down over the years and the copyright holder is just the first one to record it or the first one to apply for it.
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2018, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/296 "2018-05-23T14:45:09Z")
I’m going to change my earlier answer to R.E.M., knowing its largely informed by my generational peculiarities.
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/297 "2018-05-23T17:25:43Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> I can make some very specific arguments with regards to the Sex Pistols, but [the gist of the arguments also held true for Motörhead (and heavy metal music in general), and I think I laid that out pretty clearly some time ago](https://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showthread.php?t=636954&page=2&post=#66).
>
> The Ramones influence on modern rock music simply cannot be overstated, IMO.
“they made the market a viable place for a band like Motörhead”
I don’t know how old you are but the ramones had no effect on any markets. On scenes ok. The Pistols existence had a much bigger influence on whether motorhead was going to happen or not commercially.
The ramones are a symbol. It’s fun to write about them, and place them in history. But maybe more so than it is to actually listen to them, which is a little wrinkle to be dealt with.
The influence was to be “brutal”, and to not have pretentious stage shows. (They didn’t advance on that ) You want to prove the DNA of that is in a later scene who may or may not have heard it. Because heavy metal is “brutal.”
But I’m not convinced. I think stylistic changes happen in hard rock by peer influences. They are a stolid stoic little group.
And do you know that rockers and punks were not close buddies at the time? They were “others” to each other.
Besides being brutal, streamlining the tunes, and cutting the BS, what are you hanging your hat on here?
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### Author:  [@tnetennba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tnetennba)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2018, 8:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/298 "2018-05-23T20:36:07Z")
> [@Snowboarder\_Bo](#):
>
> The Ramones influence on modern rock music simply cannot be overstated, IMO.
You can’t put too much water into a nuclear reactor.
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### Author:  [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2018, 9:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/299 "2018-05-23T21:05:59Z")
> [@drad\_dog](#):
>
> “they made the market a viable place for a band like Motörhead”
>
> I don’t know how old you are but the ramones had no effect on any markets. On scenes ok. The Pistols existence had a much bigger influence on whether motorhead was going to happen or not commercially.
>
> The ramones are a symbol. It’s fun to write about them, and place them in history. But maybe more so than it is to actually listen to them, which is a little wrinkle to be dealt with.
>
> The influence was to be “brutal”, and to not have pretentious stage shows. (They didn’t advance on that ) You want to prove the DNA of that is in a later scene who may or may not have heard it. Because heavy metal is “brutal.”
>
> But I’m not convinced. I think stylistic changes happen in hard rock by peer influences. They are a stolid stoic little group.
>
> And do you know that rockers and punks were not close buddies at the time? They were “others” to each other.
>
> Besides being brutal, streamlining the tunes, and cutting the BS, what are you hanging your hat on here?
Your tone stinks, as always.
As to the influence of The Ramones, I Googled “How Influential were The Ramones” here are the first few entries:
10 Bands that Wouldn’t Exist Without The Ramones: [Ten Bands That Wouldn't Exist Without the Ramones in Honor of Johnny and CJ's B-Day | Crossfade | Miami | Miami New Times | The Leading Independent News Source in Miami, Florida](http://www.miaminewtimes.com/music/ten-bands-that-wouldnt-exist-without-the-ramones-in-honor-of-johnny-and-cjs-b-day-6472634) (they include Metallica, an enemy metal band!!)
1, 2, 3…40: How the Ramones Inspired a Generation: [1, 2, 3...40: How the Ramones Inspired a Generation](https://consequenceofsound.net/2016/04/1-2-3-40-how-the-ramones-inspired-a-generation/)
How The Ramones Changed The Face Of Rock Music With Their Debut Album: [How The Ramones Changed The Face Of Rock Music With Their Debut Album](https://uproxx.com/music/ramones-debut-album-punk-rock/)
The Influence of the Ramones on British Punk Bands: [http://www.bombedoutpunk.com/history/the-influence-of-the-ramones-on-british-punk-bands/](http://www.bombedoutpunk.com/history/the-influence-of-the-ramones-on-british-punk-bands/)
Forty years of the Ramones: ‘They were the smartest dumb band you ever heard’:
[Forty years of the Ramones: ‘They were the smartest dumb band you ever heard’ | The Ramones | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/feb/02/forty-years-of-the-ramones-they-were-the-smartest-dumb-band-you-ever-heard)
The Curse of The Ramones (a Rolling Stone Think Piece about how important they are):
[The Curse of the Ramones](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-curse-of-the-ramones-20160519)
Maybe you could do some of this “Googling” for yourself.
And as for listening to them, not sure what your point is. I fucking love listening to The Ramones. I played The Ramones alongside Chuck Berry, The Beach Boys, The Beatles and The Sweet\* for my kids on weekend morning in the kitchen when I cooked breakfast. Do you know how cool Sheena is a Punk Rock Rocker sounds rocking out with your kids on a Sunday morning? Please.
\*Kids adore Fox on the Run.
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### Author:  [@drad\_dog](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/drad_dog)
#### Post date: [May 23, 2018, 10:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/300 "2018-05-23T22:04:27Z")
> [@WordMan](#):
>
> Your tone stinks, as always.
>
> As to the influence of The Ramones, I Googled “How Influential were The Ramones” here are the first few entries:
>
> 10 Bands that Wouldn’t Exist Without The Ramones: [Ten Bands That Wouldn't Exist Without the Ramones in Honor of Johnny and CJ's B-Day | Crossfade | Miami | Miami New Times | The Leading Independent News Source in Miami, Florida](http://www.miaminewtimes.com/music/ten-bands-that-wouldnt-exist-without-the-ramones-in-honor-of-johnny-and-cjs-b-day-6472634) (they include Metallica, an enemy metal band!!)
> 1, 2, 3…40: How the Ramones Inspired a Generation: [1, 2, 3...40: How the Ramones Inspired a Generation](https://consequenceofsound.net/2016/04/1-2-3-40-how-the-ramones-inspired-a-generation/)
> How The Ramones Changed The Face Of Rock Music With Their Debut Album: [How The Ramones Changed The Face Of Rock Music With Their Debut Album](https://uproxx.com/music/ramones-debut-album-punk-rock/)
> The Influence of the Ramones on British Punk Bands: [http://www.bombedoutpunk.com/history/the-influence-of-the-ramones-on-british-punk-bands/](http://www.bombedoutpunk.com/history/the-influence-of-the-ramones-on-british-punk-bands/)
> Forty years of the Ramones: ‘They were the smartest dumb band you ever heard’:
> [Forty years of the Ramones: ‘They were the smartest dumb band you ever heard’ | The Ramones | The Guardian](https://www.theguardian.com/music/2016/feb/02/forty-years-of-the-ramones-they-were-the-smartest-dumb-band-you-ever-heard)
> The Curse of The Ramones (a Rolling Stone Think Piece about how important they are):
> [The Curse of the Ramones](https://www.rollingstone.com/music/features/the-curse-of-the-ramones-20160519)
>
> Maybe you could do some of this “Googling” for yourself.
>
> And as for listening to them, not sure what your point is. I fucking love listening to The Ramones. I played The Ramones alongside Chuck Berry, The Beach Boys, The Beatles and The Sweet\* for my kids on weekend morning in the kitchen when I cooked breakfast. Do you know how cool Sheena is a Punk Rock Rocker sounds rocking out with your kids on a Sunday morning? Please.
>
> \*Kids adore Fox on the Run.
Ah well…
I’ve seen them twice, in the 70s.
Don’t care to address my points as usual.
They were a stripped down brutalist rock, a high concept thing that was great. Because of this there is more to write about and philosophize in them than to listen to or grow with. Same with Andy Warhol and a lot of people. It’s not a sin or wrong. It 's the metier.
There are people who like to talk and write about music more than play it. Does this sound familiar to you? Anyway thanks for making my point about how people love to write about the ramones to express themselves. They were influential, but the mythifying and mission creep gets overbearing at times.
At least I don’t see them as dad rock.
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