# Who are the strongest contenders for the title of "greatest American rock band ever"? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [May 4, 2018, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547 "2018-05-04T02:32:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 8
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/141 "2018-05-06T14:16:53Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > In the end, ‘Subdivisions’ is a better description of the average life of a rock fan than ‘I Wanna Be Sedated’. We vicariously take chances and court danger through others because, deep down, we KNOW that’s a stupid-ass thing to do. Take the ‘American’ out of the OP and Rush was the first band that came to mind. They have (had?) both the virtuosity and the popularity. ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/142 "2018-05-06T15:04:50Z")
> [@Jonathan\_Chance](#): > > Except that a lot of the best of it never was. > > We’ll always get bogged down in definitions here. We’ve seen that very thing in this thread. But Buddy Holly wasn’t dangerous at all. He just wrote great songs around a basic blues structure. Ditto for The Beach Boys, Journey and many others. > > Sure, Link Wray was a great guitarist and his myth has brought him a bit of ‘bad boy’ substance. But Brian Wilson and the Beach Boys wrote and performed much better songs just by taking a snapshot of what was going on around them. > > Hell, Elvis himself was an attempt to package ‘dangerous’ (read: black) music into a safer format. The entire concept is founded on ‘dangerous, but not really’. > > There’s always the undercurrent in rock and roll between the critical darlings who don’t sell and the better songwriters who do. It doesn’t prevent such things from happening. Hell, the Monkees are derided publicly. But those are tight, well written songs that are performed well. > > Or The Sweet. Ballroom Blitz and Sweet FA are held up as great mid-70s songs that get people moving. But they were as much of a manufactured band as The Monkees. Nikki Chinn and Mike Chapman wrote those songs for them to appeal to the suburban kids who wanted to think they were dangerous and edgy but had to get to school in the morning. > > I’m not making fun, here, get me. But songwriting is a craft, and I prefer to see it done honestly instead of the opposite. I think you may be overthinking this. Danger is merely: does it scare parents? Back in the day, rock music did this, across a lot of demographics and for a variety of reasons. You can dismiss Elvis as re-packaged Black music, but while he clearly was that, he was still legitimately dangerous in parents’ minds. These days, music no longer serves that parent-scaring function. The Internet does. So we look at rock music differently. As for Buddy Holly, I dunno - I think parents likely lumped him in with scary rock n’ roll music in general. The Beatles loved him and got in trouble with their parents / Aunt Mimi because they greased up their hair and hemmed in their drainpipe trousers. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/143 "2018-05-06T15:18:32Z")
I think by the late 60s or early 70s, it got to the point where there was a lot of rock music that was _not_ threatening to _anyone_. Certainly by the mid-70s. One of the Sirius XM stations on regular rotation on my stereo is “Yacht Rock.” You might hear Kenny Loggins, Seals & Crofts, Stephen Bishop, Michael McDonald, Christopher Cross…this is all pretty good music from the standpoint of musicianship. It has good grooves, it has session players with great chops, the lyrics have a nice flow, and it is “soft” rock, but it’s still rock. Stephen Bishop’s song _Save it For A Rainy Day_ is rock music, no matter how you look at it. It’s driven by the drums and guitar, Eric Clapton plays a solo on it ffs, but it’s based around major chords and major sevenths rather than ‘blue notes’ or dominant sevenths. The music Kenny Loggins created was rock music. “Heart To Heart” is rock music. But there isn’t the slightest hint of anything threatening about any of this music. There aren’t (usually) any references to drugs; the sexual innuendo, if any, is very tame. It’s also easy to dismiss it as “white” but I regularly hear black artists on that channel too, and unless someone’s just outright racist, there’s nothing about it that anyone would find to be culturally transgressive. ---
**Author:** ![DavidwithanR](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/3bc359/32.png) [@DavidwithanR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DavidwithanR)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/144 "2018-05-06T16:37:33Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Take the ‘American’ out of the OP and Rush was the first band that came to mind. They have (had?) both the virtuosity and the popularity. Rush interests me because they have so much instrumental skill, but their songwriting is… different. Lyrics seem to be an afterthought, and some of the songs might have been better if they had just skipped that step. It’s very guitar-geek-y (well, band-geek-y) music, without the, umm… without the unnecessary distraction of good lyrics. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 5:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/145 "2018-05-06T17:25:20Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Rush interests me because they have so much instrumental skill, but their songwriting is… different. Lyrics seem to be an afterthought, and some of the songs might have been better if they had just skipped that step. It’s very guitar-geek-y (well, band-geek-y) music, without the, umm… without the unnecessary distraction of good lyrics. 🙂 Neil Peart’s lyrics are considered the soul of the band. And as for Yacht Rock, yeah - it ain’t really rock, to me. And Fleetwood Mac gets lumped in with Carly Simon and Seals and Crofts, but Lindsey Buckingham brings the danger 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 6:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/146 "2018-05-06T18:40:05Z")
OK, if it’s not “rock”, is it “pop”? Not rhetorical, I actually want to know what you’d say. ---
**Author:** ![silenus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/silenus/32/166_2.png) [@silenus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/silenus)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 6:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/147 "2018-05-06T18:58:37Z")
> [@WordMan](#): > > Neil Peart’s lyrics are considered the soul of the band. Which is why so many of us dismiss them without hesitation. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![WordMan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e8c25b/32.png) [@WordMan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WordMan)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/148 "2018-05-06T19:40:23Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > OK, if it’s not “rock”, is it “pop”? > > Not rhetorical, I actually want to know what you’d say. I guess I’d say it was more Pop that happened to be done with guitar/rock arrangements. Just like Pop now can often be found today with EDM arrangements. It’s not worth arguing whether a given song/group is or is not Rock. As you say, if there’s guitars and drums and a Clapton solos…but It can still be rock-flavored Pop more than rock. But if the discussion is about the _greatest_ rock band, then hell yes, danger would have to be a major factor. But Kenny Loggins isn’t in that discussion so we’re cool 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 8:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/149 "2018-05-06T20:07:49Z")
Hey; he’s alright; nobody worry 'bout him. Of course my pick is the Ramones, but y’all knew that, didn’t you? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/150 "2018-05-06T20:11:42Z")
> [@DavidwithanR](#): > > Rush interests me because they have so much instrumental skill, but their songwriting is… different. Lyrics seem to be an afterthought, and some of the songs might have been better if they had just skipped that step. It’s very guitar-geek-y (well, band-geek-y) music, without the, umm… without the unnecessary distraction of good lyrics. 🙂 Eh, they pretty much fell off a cliff lyrically after _Roll The Bones_. But they (and Peart specifically) started by applying myth to music, and then phased more into commenting on life, politics, etc., both interesting pursuits. _2112_ is a classic in the first vein, no two ways about it. By _Moving Pictures_ they had mostly moved on…“Limelight”, though not particularly high on the cosmic truth scale, was a helluva good song. “Witch Hunt” would be more of an example of their political comment, and highly applicable today (35 years before the Trumpus was amungus). _Signals_ and _Grace Under Pressure_ mixed the two. And then they started going mostly pop, with a minor resurrection on _Roll The Bones_. They lost it after that, songwriting not particularly engaging and lyrics decidedly meh. As you can guess, I know a thing or three about them. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Snowboarder\_Bo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/snowboarder_bo/32/229_2.png) [@Snowboarder\_Bo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Snowboarder_Bo)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 8:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/151 "2018-05-06T20:25:53Z")
I’m willing to vouch for the accuracy of **Johnny** ’s post, eh. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 10:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/152 "2018-05-06T22:19:23Z")
I’m not exactly trying to _debate_ **WordMan** ’s definitions of what is ‘rock’ and what is ‘pop,’ but it does raise some questions. Is Michael Jackson rock? Is Prince rock? Is Vulfpeck’s song [Back Pocket](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5pYL-Y--To) rock? Is [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozr4KsZBTvQ) by an Australian band called Hiatus Kaiyote, an example of rock? Is Steely Dan rock? ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 6, 2018, 11:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/153 "2018-05-06T23:54:15Z")
> [@Jacquernagy](#): > > I’m not exactly trying to _debate_ **WordMan** ’s definitions of what is ‘rock’ and what is ‘pop,’ but it does raise some questions. > > Is Michael Jackson rock? Is Prince rock? > > Is Vulfpeck’s song [Back Pocket](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r5pYL-Y--To) rock? > > Is [this song](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ozr4KsZBTvQ) by an Australian band called Hiatus Kaiyote, an example of rock? > > Is Steely Dan rock? During what part of their careers? MJ: Jackson 5, mostly Motown/pop. Solo, ranging from pop to soft rock to rock. Prince: Mainly funk/rock, ranging almost to hip hop later on. Steely Dan is mainly prog rock, I think…and their sound pretty much stayed the same. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/154 "2018-05-07T00:01:46Z")
I’m not sure Dan is “prog”, although they overlap with that genre somewhat in the sense of meticulous studio arrangements. There’s too much jazz influence in their work to put them in the same category as Yes, Genesis, Marillion, Gentle Giant, Camel, &c. I also think there’s too much difference between _Can’t Buy A Thrill_ and _Aja_ or _Goucho_ to say their sound didn’t change. But they did always maintain a stylistic continuity from one album to the next. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_Ace](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/6bbea6/32.png) [@Johnny\_Ace](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_Ace)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/155 "2018-05-07T00:02:10Z")
Funny, Vulfpeck sounds a lot like the Jackson 5 and Hiatus Kayote sounds like Steely Dan. Intentional? 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/156 "2018-05-07T00:03:16Z")
Vulfpeck are capable of sounding like a lot of things, but yeah that song is Jackson 5-ed out to the max, no doubt. ---
**Author:** ![pulykamell](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/pulykamell/32/3166_2.png) [@pulykamell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/pulykamell)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/157 "2018-05-07T00:15:56Z")
> [@Johnny\_Ace](#): > > Steely Dan is mainly prog rock, I think…and their sound pretty much stayed the same. No, I wouldn’t at all put them in prog rock, though I can see an argument for it, depending on how one defines prog rock. To me, it’s in the jazz-rock category, with bands like Chicago and Mahavishnu Orchestra. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 12:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/158 "2018-05-07T00:51:37Z")
I’ll make another point about the Dead, also: I think it was Jerry, more than even Bob Dylan, who demonstrated to Americans that it’s possible to be a rock singer without having a great voice or some kind of vocal gimmick. People argue about whether Dylan had a good voice or not, but whatever it was, it was unique. It was gravelly, and somewhat affected. Like Mick Jagger, it’s been argued that Dylan was trying to sound black. Whether it’s that, or whether he was trying to just sound like some kind of drunken hobo, I don’t know. But it’s an affected voice. It’s a “rock singer” voice. Jerry didn’t have a “rock singer” voice. He had a really natural, casual-sounding voice, with an almost conversational tone to it. For lack of a better word, he just sounded “like a normal guy” when he sang. His voice never overshadowed any of the instruments, it was just another instrument in the band. ---
**Author:** ![caligulathegod](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/caligulathegod/32/9685_2.png) [@caligulathegod](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/caligulathegod)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 1:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/159 "2018-05-07T01:14:59Z")
Another vote for Ramones. If you have to Google them, that says more about you than them. ---
**Author:** ![Lamoral](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/lamoral/32/16078_2.png) [@Lamoral](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Lamoral)\ **Post date:** [May 7, 2018, 1:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-strongest-contenders-for-the-title-of-greatest-american-rock-band-ever/813547/160 "2018-05-07T01:16:38Z")
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