# Who are the worst Americans? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 21, 2008, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211 "2008-12-21T19:37:33Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 8:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/61 "2008-12-22T08:15:29Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Einstein For what, writing a pro-Bomb letter to Roosevelt? You realize he never actually worked on the thing, right? Or are you saying he should have just pretended never to notice the whole E=mc[sup]2[/sup] thing? (Which really didn’t have much to do with nuclear fission anyway.) ---
**Author:** ![tim314](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim314/32/3468_2.png) [@tim314](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/tim314)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 8:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/62 "2008-12-22T08:29:31Z")
Let me put it even more bluntly: Einstein’s connection to the atomic bomb is really quite tenuous. (I’m assuming the Bomb is **foolsguinea** ’s problem with him, because if not that then I can’t imagine what.) He didn’t do the fundamental research on fission that explains how it works. He didn’t play any part in the effort to build it. Didn’t advocate using it. All he did was co-author one letter urging its development. On the other hand, he did advance our knowledge of the fundamental workings of the universe more than perhaps any other individual in human history. In as much as Einstein was an American (he only had U.S. citizenship for the last 15 years of his life), he should be on the list of _best_ Americans, not worst Americans. ---
**Author:** ![Kalhoun](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/3bc359/32.png) [@Kalhoun](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kalhoun)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/63 "2008-12-22T12:10:55Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Dude, just because you can pull an arbitrary distinction out of your, um, hat, doesn’t mean that it’s a valid one. The culture is homophobic; the culture of homophobia includes such supporters of the homophobic status quo as Fred Phelps. When you’re a teen who’s taught by your culture to loathe yourself, do you really think you’re going to make such fine distinctions? Of course not…that’s precisely why Phelps can’t be credited with the distinction of being one of the Worst Americans, personally credited with causing these specific suicides. ---
**Author:** ![FriarTed](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/friarted/32/1052_2.png) [@FriarTed](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/FriarTed)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/64 "2008-12-22T13:04:49Z")
Alger Hiss and Julius Rosenberg. I’m still undecided about if Edward Mandell House was misguided or diabolical. ---
**Author:** ![panache45](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/panache45/32/64_2.png) [@panache45](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/panache45)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 1:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/65 "2008-12-22T13:35:51Z")
> [@Laudenum](#): > > . . . a prominant anti-gay-marriage campaigner. Seriously, this is how you’re characterizing Phelps? ---
**Author:** ![MsRobyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/90ced4/32.png) [@MsRobyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MsRobyn)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/66 "2008-12-22T14:16:45Z")
> [@lissener](#): > > Yes, Bryant did a lot of harm too. However, by dismissing Phelps as “just attention-seekers whom no one takes very seriously,” you make the same mistake that RickJay does: you assume that every individual sees the world the same way you do. If you’re a gay teen in the flyover states, trust me, you don’t need the Dope to tell you who Phelps is. Added to which–though it’s clearly not as bad as it was when I was a gay teen in the flyover states–the culture at large seems pretty content to, as you say, not take Phelps seriously. Try to imagine the world through eyes other than your own, and you might understand that Phelps does not mean the same thing to you as he does to someone with a completely different worldview from yours. Sorry that sounds like it does, but your response, and RickJay’s, make it pretty clear that you haven’t made much effort to empathize with that suicidal gay teen in rural Kansas. My own experience in the area of gay life is pretty limited. But from what I can tell, a lot of people end up in support of gay rights precisely because of the behavior of the Phelps family and their dog-and-pony shows. That being said, I can empathize to some degree. As a Jew, I’ve been targeted for conversion efforts by at least one religious denomination. I went through the self-loathing period. At some point, I realized that none of these people had anything worth saying, let alone listening to. I learned to ignore them and go about my business. I know it’s easier said than done, and it took a while to get to that point, but I did it. Robin ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/67 "2008-12-22T14:43:18Z")
> [@Stan\_Shmenge](#): > > Noam Chomsky. 9/11 was our fault, and we deserved it and more. I hope he joins his wife in hell very soon. See post #51. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/68 "2008-12-22T14:47:54Z")
> [@foolsguinea](#): > > Who was it ordered the assassination of Ngo Dinh Diem? Jack Kennedy? Him. [Well, not exactly.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cable_243) > [@foolsguinea](#): > > But I should mention: The nihilists who twist youth’s minds into seeing no moral meaning in the world but ephemeral pleasure & distraction–including various horror novelists & arguably Ayn Rand. But not Stephen King, to be sure! Are you thinking perhaps of Clive Barker? ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 2:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/69 "2008-12-22T14:51:29Z")
> [@FriarTed](#): > > Alger Hiss and Julius Rosenberg. Meh. The Soviets would have had the Bomb soon enough with no help from spies; they had plenty of good physicists. > [@FriarTed](#): > > I’m still undecided about if Edward Mandell House was misguided or diabolical. 😕 What harm did [he](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Edward_Mandell_House) ever do America?! ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/70 "2008-12-22T15:05:26Z")
Every little Nazi-boy’s hot dream date: Jimbo Carter. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/71 "2008-12-22T15:08:04Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > Every little Nazi-boy’s hot dream date: Jimbo Carter. WT **F?!!** ---
**Author:** ![Annie-Xmas](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ecc23a/32.png) [@Annie-Xmas](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Annie-Xmas)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/72 "2008-12-22T15:28:50Z")
Yeah, cause starting Habitant for Humanity was such an evil thing 😕 I’d go with Nixon, Anita Bryant, and Timothy McVeigh–three people who did evil cause they thought they had the right to. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/73 "2008-12-22T15:36:52Z")
Aldrich Ames and Robert Hansen. It’s not just that the betrayed America and got people killed. It’s that they did it for almost no reason. No ideology. No higher purpose. They crossed the line from “misguided” to “truly sick.” ---
**Author:** ![LonesomePolecat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/a88e57/32.png) [@LonesomePolecat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/LonesomePolecat)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/74 "2008-12-22T15:38:21Z")
> [@Liberal](#): > > My top ten: > > 1. Joe McCarthy > 2. Charles Manson > 3. Benedict Arnold > 4. John Wilkes Booth > 5. James Earl Ray > 6. Timothy McVeigh > 7. William T. Sherman > 8. Adam Yahiye Gadahn > 9. Richard Bruce Cheney > 10. Indian Hater Jackson I can pretty much understand the others, but why Sherman? ---
**Author:** ![Rune](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e68b1a/32.png) [@Rune](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rune)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/75 "2008-12-22T15:39:00Z")
> [@BrainGlutton](#): > > WT **F?!!** WTF what? Haven’t you ever trawled the dark underbelly of the Internet? The Naziboys love your little Jimboboy. He’s the hottest thing since sauerkraut and fat men in lederhosen. I can’t be bothered to list all the ills begotten by that snivelling little boy from the pathetic handling of the Iran revolution and hostage situation to Zimbabwe and his good pal Mugabe. Or his stupid books and pathetic Nobel Lobby Price. Yeah. Shove a rod of iron up his little ass. Not that I think he would notice, since he has already been buggered by practically all and everybody in the who’s who of two bit dictators. Don’t know if he is the worst. You have so many able contestants. But he’s definitely a fearsome finalist. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/76 "2008-12-22T15:46:48Z")
And don’t forget eradicating Guinea Worm! This is a man who wants to make whole species go extinct! ---
**Author:** ![Sitnam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/6a8cbe/32.png) [@Sitnam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sitnam)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/77 "2008-12-22T15:47:48Z")
I don’t know what kind of criteria you guys are using for worst American ever but I don’t think you’re on the right track, Fred Phelps? LBJ? Noam Chomsky? This is like a ‘greatest movie ever made’ thread in which everyone’s offering is one of _The Lord of the Rings_ movies. Nationalities are like friends, you can have racist friends, friends that get drunk and ruin your car, friends that talk behind your back, and as bad as they are sometimes you might still hang out with them. The Antithesis of a American is someone who knowingly and deliberately hurts all Americans because they’re Americans. So people like the Rosenburgs would be way up there. ---
**Author:** ![BrainGlutton](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/82dd89/32.png) [@BrainGlutton](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BrainGlutton)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/78 "2008-12-22T16:21:49Z")
> [@Rune](#): > > WTF what? Haven’t you ever trawled the dark underbelly of the Internet? The Naziboys love your little Jimboboy. He’s the hottest thing since sauerkraut and fat men in lederhosen. I can’t be bothered to list all the ills begotten by that snivelling little boy from the pathetic handling of the Iran revolution and hostage situation to Zimbabwe and his good pal Mugabe. Or his stupid books and pathetic Nobel Lobby Price. Yeah. Shove a rod of iron up his little ass. Not that I think he would notice, since he has already been buggered by practically all and everybody in the who’s who of two bit dictators. Don’t know if he is the worst. You have so many able contestants. But he’s definitely a fearsome finalist. . . . What has any of that to do with a Nazi agenda?! Are you using the word “Nazi” in some unconventional sense? ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/79 "2008-12-22T16:34:47Z")
> [@LonesomePolecat](#): > > I can pretty much understand the others, but why Sherman? His [March to the Sea](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sherman's_March_to_the_Sea). ---
**Author:** ![Liberal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/848f3c/32.png) [@Liberal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Liberal)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2008, 4:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211/80 "2008-12-22T16:37:11Z")
> [@ElvisL1ves](#): > > All of whom must, by your definition, be even worse than “the fucking beast from Revelations”, as you so quaintly described her not so long ago. I certainly hope I was not guilty of such a typo. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-the-worst-americans/478211.md?page=5)