# Who are we, fucking CHINA!?! **URL:** \ **Category:** The BBQ Pit\ **Created:** [December 6, 2010, 2:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146 "2010-12-06T14:45:20Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![shiftless](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e9c0ed/32.png) [@shiftless](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/shiftless)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/21 "2010-12-06T19:25:00Z")
We (I’m a government employee) did get emails with guidelines about the wikileaks site. I don’t remember anything threatening me with evil if I look at the data there. Heck, we get emails with guidelines all the time. A couple of things in play here I think: 1. Government employees work under some different rules from others. In general we aren’t supposed to be working for parties or campaigning, for example. In the case of the wikileaks I would say that we, as employees of this government, shouldn’t be working against the stated goals of the gov. 2. I don’t think I am prevented from viewing wikileaks in my own home, on my own time but I have, as part of my job, agreed to restrictions on the way I use certain data. If I have sworn to not reveal certain data then that limitation is not lifted just because someone else revealed it first. Also, my employer has a lot of restrictions on the websites I can visit during work. I am supposed to be doing work here, not browsing wikileaks for information I can use against my boss. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/22 "2010-12-06T19:34:58Z")
> [@Chessic\_Sense](#): > > It is still therefore a crime to release or discuss classified information even if it’s on the front page of the paper. But is it a crime to _read_ the paper? ---
**Author:** ![sqweels](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/f19dbf/32.png) [@sqweels](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/sqweels)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 8:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/23 "2010-12-06T20:15:46Z")
Fun with misplaced commas. ---
**Author:** ![Chessic\_Sense](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/7c8e57/32.png) [@Chessic\_Sense](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chessic_Sense)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 8:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/24 "2010-12-06T20:37:19Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > But is it a crime to _read_ the paper? In the technical, legal sense? I don’t know. You’d have to ask a lawyer. In a practical sense? No, probably not. I don’t think anyone would actually have a problem with it. But just because it’s not a crime doesn’t mean it’s a good idea. I wouldn’t look at it on my work computer, that’s for sure. if I looked it up at home, I wouldn’t discuss what I saw there, even with my coworkers. I wouldn’t want to have to cop to it on a polygraph either. That’s why I’m not going to look at the site. And as was said earlier, if it’s against gov’t policy and you work for the gov’t, then you have to do as they say or you can get fired. It’s not much different than Best Buy demanding that you wear khakis. That’s hardly out of line, I think. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/25 "2010-12-06T20:54:57Z")
> [@xtisme](#): > > Fire them? If their actions are criminal then put them in jail or impeach them? Is this a trick question (I’m not being sarcastic…I don’t get it)? How do you find out the abuse in order to fire/prosecute the malfactor in the first place, if not through leaks? Further, suppose you’ve suffered at the hands of agents of the state (or another). You pursue your grievance through the court system, [only to find your case is stopped in its tracks due to “national security concerns”](http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2006/05/18/AR2006051802107.html). What then? (The case of the German grocer kidnapped, tortured and held incommunicado by the CIA is especially relevant, as one of the latest leaks directly implicates the US in pressuring the German government to cancel the arrest warrants for the thirteen CIA agents involved.) ---
**Author:** ![The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/73ab20/32.png) [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Tao_s_Revenge)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 9:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/26 "2010-12-06T21:01:32Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This Pitting would be much better if it actually involved sex with China. 1/10. What the hell do you call an orgy 1.5 billion strong? a 10[sup]9.17609126[/sup]some? I agree that would be an incredible thread though. ---
**Author:** ![D\_Odds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/d_odds/32/2882_2.png) [@D\_Odds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/D_Odds)\ **Post date:** [December 6, 2010, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/27 "2010-12-06T23:44:49Z")
In addition, classified information tends to be compartmentalized. The reason for this is so that a single person acting alone cannot reveal _too_ much. Government employees, especially those with a security clearance, should not knowingly break the compartmentalization. Secondly, government employees who know the accuracy and veracity of the data should neither confirm nor refute any information. I help top secret codeword clearance while in the Air Force, and spent the bulk of my one tour in England. We were told to answer seemingly innocent questions about our jobs with “I cannot confirm nor deny that”. Also popular was “I just work in the kitchens. I don’t know anything going on there.” [aside]We would watch a TV movie, whose name I’ve long forgot, in our secure facility. The movie focused on our specific job, except was based in a Japanese air base. We liked to laugh at the mistakes. I’ll give you one big reveal…the movie showed geisha roaming the secure, compartmentalized work area delivering tea. Those who had done time at the Japanese base readily confirmed what we all already knew - no geisha in secure areas (or on the base at all). Besides, our coffee urn ran 24/7, 365. It had so much caffeine baked into it that it could deliver the coffee itself. We didn’t need whatever the English equivalent would have been.[/aside] ---
**Author:** ![Chefguy](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chefguy/32/138_2.png) [@Chefguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chefguy)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 12:09am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/28 "2010-12-07T00:09:07Z")
In United States, China fucking YOU! ---
**Author:** ![Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ccd318/32.png) [@Paul\_in\_Qatar](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Paul_in_Qatar)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 1:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/29 "2010-12-07T01:29:47Z")
I have not read whatever the State Department said, but I sort of understood it to be something like, “Want a job with us after graduation? You know we check FaceBook and stuff. It would be better is you were not distributing that WikiLeak stuff, we take security seriously.” ---
**Author:** ![Darth\_Nader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/ad7895/32.png) [@Darth\_Nader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darth_Nader)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/30 "2010-12-07T02:32:00Z")
> [@The\_Tao\_s\_Revenge](#): > > What the hell do you call an orgy 1.5 billion strong? Messy. Bring your own towel. ---
**Author:** ![Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/spectre_of_pithecanthropus/32/12343_2.png) [@Spectre\_of\_Pithecanthropus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Spectre_of_Pithecanthropus)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/31 "2010-12-07T02:32:59Z")
My take on the announcement is that the government is speaking as a government, but as employers and executives. The executive class pretty much runs the country, as demonstrated by today’s news on the Bush tax cuts. Both public and private employers apparently have considerable leeway to act against current or would-be employees for things they’ve said or done online. I don’t mean to suggest that the US is alone in this, but it does happen. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/32 "2010-12-07T02:56:00Z")
The various state bar character and fitness boards sure as hell look at your social media pages to see what you’ve been jabbering about, and to the best of my knowledge none of _them_ are being pitted. ---
**Author:** ![Rand\_Rover](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/db5fbb/32.png) [@Rand\_Rover](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Rand_Rover)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 2:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/33 "2010-12-07T02:57:37Z")
> [@Sitnam](#): > > I’m so fucking pissed off right now, I take back my early misgivings about Assange’s activities and now fully support him. They can both be wrong, you know (which is what I think, at least). ---
**Author:** ![mhendo](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mhendo/32/3159_2.png) [@mhendo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mhendo)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 3:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/34 "2010-12-07T03:36:04Z")
> [@D\_Odds](#): > > We were told to answer seemingly innocent questions about our jobs with “I cannot confirm nor deny that”. Wow, you guys must have been a ball of fun at parties! > [@D\_Odds](#): > > Also popular was “I just work in the kitchens. I don’t know anything going on there.” At least that shows a glimpse of human feeling and a certain self-awareness. “I cannot confirm nor deny that” just sounds moronic. ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 4:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/35 "2010-12-07T04:35:26Z")
> [@mhendo](#): > > Wow, you guys must have been a ball of fun at parties! At least that shows a glimpse of human feeling and a certain self-awareness. “I cannot confirm nor deny that” just sounds moronic. I used to have top secret security clearance and that’s what I was supposed to say too, if anybody ever asked about anything. Not that anybody ever asked, and I haven’t had the clearance since I left that position about 15 years ago. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 10:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/36 "2010-12-07T10:03:17Z")
Okay, Ridley beat me, but I like the way I said it, so I’ll leave this. > [@xtisme](#): > > Fire them? If their actions are criminal then put them in jail or impeach them? Is this a trick question (I’m not being sarcastic…I don’t get it)? We can’t. If they’re doing all this in secret, we have no way of policing them. We have no way of saying “Elect this guy because he handles secret information well.” You might argue that we’d know if someone leaked, at least by the response of the others calling it a leak. Barring a wide conspiracy, hat’s true, but that’s not the only way to betray our trust. They could be keeping things secret that shouldn’t be secret\*. Illegal, immoral things. And we will just keep on electing them, because we don’t know anything. Heck, I wouldn’t be surprised if that’s the real reason so many people are upset. \*as judged by us, obviously. ---
**Author:** ![Koxinga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/4af34b/32.png) [@Koxinga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Koxinga)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 10:27am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/37 "2010-12-07T10:27:26Z")
> [@suranyi](#): > > I used to have top secret security clearance . . . Now, you know you can’t just leave us hanging like that – c’mon, dish! ---
**Author:** ![suranyi](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/e36b37/32.png) [@suranyi](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/suranyi)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 5:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/38 "2010-12-07T17:37:59Z")
> [@Koxinga](#): > > Now, you know you can’t just leave us hanging like that – c’mon, dish! I used to work – well, I was a student employee, I was a graduate student – at the Lawrence Livermore National Laboratory. I had the clearance so I could go into the secure area of the lab. My actual work was not classified, and indeed I pretty much never came across actual classified information. But because I was in the area where classified info was created and discussed I had the whole briefing. It was a long process to get the clearance. I think they interviewed everyone I ever knew well, plus lots of my neighbors, etc. Only a few weeks after I left the lab I got a very stern letter telling me that I risked all kinds of punishment if I didn’t return my badge IMMEDIATELY. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 5:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/39 "2010-12-07T17:55:15Z")
> [@gonzomax](#): > > The trend has been toward over classification. At Assange’s first dump, most politicians, after getting over their faux anger, admitted the vast majority of the stuff was in the public already or not worth arguing about. The shock subsided and we went along with no harm. Well, yes, but the first dump didn’t have a lot of dirt that showed politicians and diplomats backbiting and sniping at each other like cliquish high school students. ---
**Author:** ![Steve\_MB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/steve_mb/32/5339_2.png) [@Steve\_MB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_MB)\ **Post date:** [December 7, 2010, 5:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146/40 "2010-12-07T17:59:09Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > This Pitting would be much better if it actually involved sex with China. “An hour later, I was horny again…” [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-we-fucking-china/563146.md?page=3)