# Who are your country's best-known (historic) military leaders? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515 "2009-08-24T16:48:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/1 "2009-08-24T16:48:52Z")
Inspired by **Tamerlane** ’s comment [here](http://boards.straightdope.com/sdmb/showpost.php?p=11478272&postcount=67), it occurs to me that few military leaders are well-known (except perhaps in the US, which is odd considering that we haven’t been around for long and weren’t very militaristic until this century). So, dopers- does your country have lots of famous generals and admirals? Just a couple? ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 5:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/2 "2009-08-24T17:13:32Z")
Washington, Lee, Jackson, Grant, Patton, Eisenhower. Also a couple famous for their failures: Pickett and Custer. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/3 "2009-08-24T18:17:27Z")
Are you talking about Stonewall Jackson or Andrew Jackson? Also, you left out Schwarzkopf. He used to be _really_ famous. ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/4 "2009-08-24T19:13:50Z")
Mythological: Joshua Bin-Nun Gideon David Ancient History: Judas Maccabeus Simon Bar-Kochva Modern: Moshe Dayan Yitzhak Rabin Ariel Sharon (technically still alive, but definitely historical) ---
**Author:** ![garygnu](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/garygnu/32/2924_2.png) [@garygnu](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/garygnu)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/5 "2009-08-24T19:17:14Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Are you talking about Stonewall Jackson or Andrew Jackson? > > Also, you left out Schwarzkopf. He used to be _really_ famous. Stonewall. Andrew is a blight on American history and should be forgotten. I almost included Schwarzkopf. I left him off after mentally comparing him and his fame to the others I listed. ---
**Author:** ![Wakinyan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wakinyan/32/352_2.png) [@Wakinyan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wakinyan)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/6 "2009-08-24T23:07:30Z")
[King Karl XII](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Karl_XII) due to the relentless fighting (himself at the front of course, starting as a teenager) for keeping [The Swedish Empire](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_Empire) while attacked on all fronts. [King Gustav II Adolf](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gustav_II_Adolf), also a “war king” and founder of said Empire, who also sometimes is mentioned in history of wars kind of books, for being a great tactician (somewhat revolutionized the way artillery was used, etc, from what I read) and also rather cool. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/7 "2009-08-24T23:17:33Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Stonewall. Andrew is a blight on American history and should be forgotten. The guy who beat the British and the Creek, you know, actual enemies to the US, was more of a blight on American history than a guy who actually led an army against the US? That’s an interesting set of standards. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 24, 2009, 11:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/8 "2009-08-24T23:55:25Z")
Handful of NZ nominations; I’m sure someone with more knowledge of NZ military history may have better picks. From WWII: [Captain Charles Upham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Upham) (VC & Bar), arguably the most highly decorated Commonwealth soldier of WWII. [Air Marshal Sir Keith Park](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keith_Park) (GCB, KBE, MC & Bar, etc), NZ WWI fighter pilot and later RAF commander who organized fighter defence for Dunkirk, responsible for the fighter defence of London. and [General Fryberg](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernard_Freyberg,_1st_Baron_Freyberg), Gallipoli veteran, commander of the NZ army in WWII, and himself a VC recipient. Going back to colonial times I’d suggest that the Maori chief [Te Kooti](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Te_Kooti%27s_War) might be the best known of the native leaders who fought the British, but I have a personal fondness for [Hone Heke](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hone_Heke), and the “[Flagstaff War](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flagstaff_War)”. ---
**Author:** ![Slithy\_Tove](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/slithy_tove/32/18248_2.png) [@Slithy\_Tove](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Slithy_Tove)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 12:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/9 "2009-08-25T00:22:31Z")
For us Americans, can we narrow it down to our home state? My home state of Wisconsin isn’t known as a particularly bellicose place, compared with, say, Virginia or Texas. But it did supply three of the five regiments which made up the **Iron Brigade** in the Civil War. **Arthur McArthur** , Douglas’ father, was a 19-year old officer from Milwaukee who rallied his soldiers by grabbing the flag and yelling “On Wisconsin” at Missionary Ridge. This was used as the title of the state’s football team’s figh song. Neither Texas nor Virginia uses an actual battle cry at their football games (although Austin does have that “make them eat shit” charmer). Douglas McArthur wasn’t a true Wisconsinite in the corn-fed and hand-spanked traditon, having followed his father’s career though Army post in the American West and the Phillipines, but the family mansion was on the bluffs overlooking the lake in Milwaukee. While visiting there as a boy, he had to endure the put-downs of the slightly older and at that time bigger neighbor, **Billy Mitchell**. Mitchell failed to look ahead at the possibility that someday MacArthur would sit on his court martial panel, and later write of it “I did what I could for General Mitchell.” My hometown had about 2,000 people, but it still produced two brothers: one a three-star Marine General and the other became Air Force Chief of Staff. When we lived there my dad used to drink with the older Wisconsin guys at the local VFW. Today he drinks with the old Georgia boys down here at his American Legion post. Despite the stronger martial traditon of the South, his current companions aren’t like his fomrer ones who cheerfully told stories of how their mom’s confiscated the bags of Japanese gold tooth fillings they brought home in 1945. Wisconsites made good soldiers not because they’re especially brave, just dog-mean. ---
**Author:** ![Peter\_Morris](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/peter_morris/32/359_2.png) [@Peter\_Morris](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peter_Morris)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/10 "2009-08-25T03:16:56Z")
Wellington Nelson ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/11 "2009-08-25T03:44:40Z")
Sir John Monash. One of the most capable generals of the Great War from either side. ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/12 "2009-08-25T04:05:02Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > The guy who beat the British and the Creek, you know, actual enemies to the US, was more of a blight on American history than a guy who actually led an army against the US? That’s an interesting set of standards. OH yeah! Nothing like some good ole injun killin’ to get the blood moving. ---
**Author:** ![thirdwarning](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/ecccb3/32.png) [@thirdwarning](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thirdwarning)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 4:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/13 "2009-08-25T04:14:37Z")
> [@garygnu](#): > > Washington, Lee, Jackson, Grant, Patton, Eisenhower. > > Also a couple famous for their failures: Pickett and Custer. Arnold? You only said famous, you didn’t say loyal. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 5:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/14 "2009-08-25T05:20:17Z")
There really needs to be some kind of variation of Godwin’s law that says that in any discussion of Andrew Jackson, somebody is inevitably going to bring up his persecution of the Indians, as if it is completely impossible to analyze or discuss anything about Andrew Jackson without doing so. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 6:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/15 "2009-08-25T06:16:53Z")
> [@RetroVertigo](#): > > OH yeah! Nothing like some good ole injun killin’ to get the blood moving. Stonewall Jackson fought in the Mexican War and killed a bunch of Mexicans. Is that better than Jackson killing Creeks? ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/16 "2009-08-25T09:58:42Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Handful of NZ nominations; I’m sure someone with more knowledge of NZ military history may have better picks. > > From WWII: > [Captain Charles Upham](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Charles_Upham) (VC & Bar), arguably the most highly decorated Commonwealth soldier of WWII. I’ve lauded Charlie Upham repeatedly on these boards, and will likely do so again, but as a mere platoon (later company) commander, and largely remembered for his own personal deeds of valour, doesn’t he fall outside the remit of “leader” in this context? ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 1:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/17 "2009-08-25T13:43:52Z")
Keep 'em coming. Also, please note whether these are off the tops of your heads or whether you had to look them up. ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/18 "2009-08-25T15:27:41Z")
The only Spanish military leader I expect foreigners to have heard about is Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, alias El Cid, Mío Cid or El Cid Campeador. Sadly, many of them know him because he looked like Charlton Heston, but hey, better than nothing. Ones I remember are Pelayo (first King of Asturias, the kingdom which later became Galicia and later León and later Castille); Jaime I El Conquistador (king of Aragon); the two “big Sanchos” of Navarra (Sancho III and Sancho VII); Alfonso el Batallador (not sure of the number, Castilian). More modern, Espartero and Zumalacárregui come to mind. And in ancient times, a Lusitanian whose name refuses to come out right now (and which the Portuguese also claim, of course, he’s sort of an all-Iberian MVP). ETA: Got the name: Viriato. There were several Roman generals and emperors born in Iberia; the only one whose name I remember as being a military leader was Pompeyo (founder of my home town of Pamplona). ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/19 "2009-08-25T15:38:04Z")
You forgot Maximus Decimus Meridius. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 3:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/20 "2009-08-25T15:38:07Z")
This may be a hijack, but… Why not see how many great military leaders you can name from OTHER nations? I’m guessing if you asked an American to name some military leaders from other lands, you’d hear: **Great Britain** : Lord Nelson, the Duke of Wellington, and Bernard Law Montgomery are probably the British military heroes best known here. **Japan:** Admiral Yamamoto is one of the few Japanese military leaders most Americans could name. \*\*Russia \*\*: General Zhukov is the most famous… but considering that Russia played the leading role in defeating Hitler, it’s astonishing how little known Zhukov is here. **France:** Napoleon first, by a mile. Then DeGaulle and Lafayette, probably. \*\* Germany:\*\* Erwin Rommel is definitely the most famous. Von Clausewitz’s writing make him very famous, and von Steuben’s aid to the American Revolutionary forces makes him very famous, too. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515.md?page=2)