# Who are your country's best-known (historic) military leaders? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515 "2009-08-24T16:48:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/41 "2009-08-25T20:13:48Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I think the tank helps too. Both have tanks named after them, though. But that reminds me, if people are going to list Jackson, we also have to include Sherman. My Russian consultant (i.e., the person who sits across the hall from me) says Voroshilov is another biggie in Russia. I looked him up, and AFAICT one would do best to forget him, but there you are. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/42 "2009-08-25T20:23:46Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > Both have tanks named after them, though. Only Patton got a tank. Bradley got an [infantry fighting vehicle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry_fighting_vehicle), which is much less cool. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/43 "2009-08-25T20:42:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Only Patton got a tank. Bradley got an [infantry fighting vehicle](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Infantry_fighting_vehicle), which is much less cool. See, like I said, the guy just doesn’t get as much respect. 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![mnemosyne](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/c4cdca/32.png) [@mnemosyne](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mnemosyne)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/44 "2009-08-25T20:42:33Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I’m struggling to think of the names of any specifically Canadian historical military leaders. Lots of Brits and French leaders who fought in Canada, of course - Wolfe and Montcalm, Brock, etc. How about Roméo Dallaire? He was the leader of the UN mission in Rwanda in the early-mid 90s, trying to stop the Tutsis genocide there. That was the first name that came to mind - it wasn’t all that long ago, but it certainly is an important historical event and level of involvement on his part (looking up just this part on [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom%C3%A9o_Dallaire#Original_mission)🙂 > [@](#): > > Dallaire’s actions are credited with directly saving the lives of 32,000 Tutsis and Hutus . ---
**Author:** ![Malthus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/85f322/32.png) [@Malthus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malthus)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 8:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/45 "2009-08-25T20:54:30Z")
> [@mnemosyne](#): > > How about Roméo Dallaire? He was the leader of the UN mission in Rwanda in the early-mid 90s, trying to stop the Tutsis genocide there. That was the first name that came to mind - it wasn’t all that long ago, but it certainly is an important historical event and level of involvement on his part (looking up just this part on [wiki](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rom%C3%A9o_Dallaire#Original_mission)🙂 . Well I was thinking more in terms of historical generals, but you are right - I even read general Dallaire’s book, _Shake Hands With The Devil_. ---
**Author:** ![Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/cc9497/32.png) [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capt.Ridley_s_Shooting_Party)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/46 "2009-08-25T21:22:04Z")
> [@Nava](#): > > The only Spanish military leader I expect foreigners to have heard about is Rodrigo Díaz de Vivar, alias El Cid, Mío Cid or El Cid Campeador. Sadly, many of them know him because he looked like Charlton Heston, but hey, better than nothing. > > Ones I remember are Pelayo (first King of Asturias, the kingdom which later became Galicia and later León and later Castille); Jaime I El Conquistador (king of Aragon); the two “big Sanchos” of Navarra (Sancho III and Sancho VII); Alfonso el Batallador (not sure of the number, Castilian). More modern, Espartero and Zumalacárregui come to mind. And in ancient times, a Lusitanian whose name refuses to come out right now (and which the Portuguese also claim, of course, he’s sort of an all-Iberian MVP). ETA: Got the name: Viriato. > > There were several Roman generals and emperors born in Iberia; the only one whose name I remember as being a military leader was Pompeyo (founder of my home town of Pamplona). Buenaventura Durruti’s pretty famous, too. ---
**Author:** ![Cunctator](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/43a26b/32.png) [@Cunctator](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cunctator)\ **Post date:** [August 25, 2009, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/47 "2009-08-25T22:36:10Z")
> [@Cicero](#): > > Sir John Monash. One of the most capable generals of the Great War from either side. And knighted by King George V on the battlefield - the first commander in 200 years to receive such an honour. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 1:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/48 "2009-08-26T01:15:41Z")
> [@Cunctator](#): > > And knighted by King George V on the battlefield - the first commander in 200 years to receive such an honour. He was probably the first commander ever to receive the honor of being knighted by King George V on the battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 1:39am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/49 "2009-08-26T01:39:54Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > He was probably the first commander ever to receive the honor of being knighted by King George V on the battlefield. _snork_ ---
**Author:** ![Ponch8](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ponch8/32/9883_2.png) [@Ponch8](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ponch8)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 2:04am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/50 "2009-08-26T02:04:31Z")
[George McClellan](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/George_B._McClellan), mostly because of his incompetency during the Civil War ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/51 "2009-08-26T05:42:12Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > Not really, in light of the cold war. > > I would guess that Kutuzov is pretty well-known in Russia as well. > > In America, it’s amazing that Patton is more well-known than Omar Bradley. I guess the movie helped a lot. During WWII (according to my dad; I’m not that old), you heard about Bradley 20 times for every mention of Patton. Certainly, Kutuzov is well known to anyone who’s read “War and Peace.” I don’t know how he’s viewed in Russia. Tolstoy obviously admired the man tremendously, but reading between the lines, one gets the sense that many/most Russians regarded Kutuzov the way Americans view George McClellan: as a man who was far too cautious, and didn’t seem to want to fight. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Second\_Stone](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/bbe5ce/32.png) [@The\_Second\_Stone](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Second_Stone)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 5:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/52 "2009-08-26T05:49:17Z")
Pershing, George Marshall and Douglas MacArthur were also well known military leaders. ---
**Author:** ![willthekittensurvive](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/91b2a8/32.png) [@willthekittensurvive](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/willthekittensurvive)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 12:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/53 "2009-08-26T12:50:41Z")
Well, the Dutch military has [Thom Karremans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Karremans), the commander of Dutchbat troops in Srebrenica, during the civil war in Bosnia. He told Serb General Ratko Mladic “not to shoot the piano player”, and let the Serbs take Srebrenica. Not our finest hour I know the truth is more complex but, and he never received the support he needed …but still We also had had [Michiel de Ruyter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michiel_de_Ruyter)who sailed up the river Thames and stole the Brittish flagship ending the Second Anglo-Dutch War ---
**Author:** ![Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/58956e/32.png) [@Speak\_to\_me\_Maddie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speak_to_me_Maddie)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 2:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/54 "2009-08-26T14:18:27Z")
> [@omgzebras](#): > > (Off the top of my head) > > Among Texans, at least, Sam Houston is pretty popular. Yes, there are statues of that man everywhere in Texas, and deservedly so I think. Others for Texas: **Sam Houston** - bascially every war Texas was involved in from 1812 to the Civil War (he retired in protest of secession) **William Travis** - commander at the Alamo, remember? **Chester Nimitz** - WWII, head Naval honcho in the Pacific. Had a whole class of warships named after him. **James Rudder** - Army Ranger commander, D-Day, Battle of the Bulge, etc. **Dwight D. Eisenhower** - Not sure if he counts for Texas. He was born here but moved away in childhood. ---
**Author:** ![kelly5078](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/6f9a4e/32.png) [@kelly5078](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/kelly5078)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 2:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/55 "2009-08-26T14:57:31Z")
> [@astorian](#): > > Certainly, Kutuzov is well known to anyone who’s read “War and Peace.” > > I don’t know how he’s viewed in Russia. Tolstoy obviously admired the man tremendously, but reading between the lines, one gets the sense that many/most Russians regarded Kutuzov the way Americans view George McClellan: as a man who was far too cautious, and didn’t seem to want to fight. I don’t know how he’s viewed in Russia either, and I don’t feel like hitting up my Russia consultant again. But he is certainly one of the most well-known, which I believe was the subject of the thread. For a guy who didn’t want to fight, he certainly had a terminal effect on a lot of the French. ---
**Author:** ![bordelond](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bordelond/32/150_2.png) [@bordelond](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bordelond)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/56 "2009-08-26T16:00:43Z")
I would imagine that Tunisia could claim Hannibal Barca if they were so inclined 😃 I’d think Simón Bolívar is a slam dunk for Venezuela’s most famous military leader. And, probably regrettably, General Santa Anna for Mexico. Sun Tzu is a Chinese military name known in the West, but his history is pretty cloudy. ---
**Author:** ![astorian](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/ad7895/32.png) [@astorian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/astorian)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/57 "2009-08-26T16:12:10Z")
> [@kelly5078](#): > > I don’t know how he’s viewed in Russia either, and I don’t feel like hitting up my Russia consultant again. But he is certainly one of the most well-known, which I believe was the subject of the thread. > > For a guy who didn’t want to fight, he certainly had a terminal effect on a lot of the French. But he didn’t so much defeat the French in open combat as withdraw, pull back, and retreat strategically on a regular basis. In the process, he allowed the French to capture Moscow, which was largely burned down during the French occupation. Strategically, Kutuzov may have been 100% correct to avoid direct confrontation. The end result may have borne out his wisdom. But at the time, the tsar and many other Russians had to be wondering, “Is he REALLY going to give up holy Moscow without a fight? Is he a coward, or what?” ---
**Author:** ![Sailboat](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sailboat/32/461_2.png) [@Sailboat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sailboat)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/58 "2009-08-26T16:42:51Z")
Does Abraham Lincoln count? He had [been in the militia](http://www.geocities.com/old_lead/abe.htm), including some time as a captain; he did not fight as far as I can see, but his unit helped bury the dead from the battle of Stillman’s Run. Once the Civil War started, Lincoln studied military strategy, both because he felt that the commander-in-chief should know as much as possible and also because it was clear his generals weren’t serving him very well. He is known to have lectured generals on points of military strategy on numerous occasions: > [@](#): > > Next time, gentlemen, put in \*all \*your men > [@](#): > > I state my general idea of this war to be that we have the greater numbers, and the enemy has the greater facility of concentrating forces upon points of collision; that we must fail, unless we can find some way of making our advantage an over-match for his ; and that this can only be done by menacing him with superior forces at _different_ points, at the _same_ time; so that we can safely attack, one, or both, if he makes no change; and if he weakens one to strengthen the other, forbear to attack the strengthened one, but seize, and hold the weakened one, gaining so much. He attended at least two battles in person ([Fort Stevens](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fort_Stevens_%28Washington,_D.C.%29), at which he was exposed to enemy fire, and he was reviewing troops at Petersburg when the Army of Northern Virginia made its last great attack at [Fort Stedman](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Battle_of_Fort_Stedman). He was not under fire at Petersburg, but he was close enough to be seen by Confederate prisoners being led away from the front lines.) He constantly searched for battlefield success among his generals and replaced them until he finally got it. He was cheered wildly by the common soldiers whenever he came within sight of them. He looked out for their well being and he pardoned many of them who were accused of offenses (he was a notorious softie about hanging offenses). He followed war news constantly and was often camped out at the telegraph office waiting for news. His presidency was not exclusively about war and his greatness transcends war, but he was as much a military man, and as much a leader, as most generals, and more so than many heads of state. And he’s a _little_ famous. 🙂 . ---
**Author:** ![Nava](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/da6949/32.png) [@Nava](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Nava)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 4:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/59 "2009-08-26T16:55:17Z")
> [@Capt.Ridley\_s\_Shooting\_Party](#): > > Buenaventura Durruti’s pretty famous, too. Only if you’re an anarchist. And he wasn’t really a military leader, even if he did die in military action and leading a column. Politician, yes; military leader, only because he had to and not particularly good. May as well call Agustina de Aragón or any number of the guerrillas who took up arms against Napoleon’s troops “military leaders.” I thought Pompeyo was from Hispania, my mistake. ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 9:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/60 "2009-08-26T21:42:25Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > Italy: [Ambrosio Spinola](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ambrosio_Spinola) is the first to come to mind, although he fought for Spain primarily… I class him as a Spanish general. Pre-19th century nationalism, nationality was not necessarily tied to primary military service. One of France’s great generals, **Maurice de Saxe** , was a german nobleman - bastard son of the Elector of Saxony/king of Poland. Probably Austria’s greatest commander, **Eugene of Savoy** , was born and raised in France ( to the age of 20 ). Another good Austrian commander, **Laudon** , was from Latvia and spent the first nine years of his military career in the Russian army. Catholic Europe was speckled with generals of Irish descent ( ‘Wild Geese’ ). And at the battle of Almanza, the “French” general **James FitzJames** ( bastard son of James II of England, overthrown in the Glorious Revolution ), defeated the “English” general **Henri de Massue** ( a Hugenot noble who had defected after the revocation of the Edict of Nantes ). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515.md?page=4)