# Who are your country's best-known (historic) military leaders? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [August 24, 2009, 4:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515 "2009-08-24T16:48:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 26, 2009, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/61 "2009-08-26T23:26:56Z")
From Switzerland, the names that I can think of without looking them up: General Guisan, led the Swiss troops during World War II (i.e. organized the defense of Switzerland - no fighting of course); he’s well-known because he led the country during the most recent war on its borders General Dufour - the leader of the winning side in the 1847 civil war in Switzerland, the Sonderbund (protestants vs. catholics) Divico - tried to lead a mass exodus of the Helvetians from modern-day Switzerland to modern-day France to escape the invading Germans from the North. Divico was beaten by Julius Caesar and the Helvetians had to return to modern-day Switzerland. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 12:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/62 "2009-08-27T00:00:42Z")
Anyone else find the concept of a Swiss civil war astonishing? ---
**Author:** ![RetroVertigo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/b38774/32.png) [@RetroVertigo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RetroVertigo)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 1:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/63 "2009-08-27T01:01:08Z")
> [@Captain\_Amazing](#): > > Stonewall Jackson fought in the Mexican War and killed a bunch of Mexicans. Is that better than Jackson killing Creeks? Better? No. More evenly matched, without all the women and kids to get in the way? Probably. ---
**Author:** ![Apollyon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/apollyon/32/4238_2.png) [@Apollyon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Apollyon)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 2:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/64 "2009-08-27T02:33:07Z")
> [@Malacandra](#): > > I’ve lauded Charlie Upham repeatedly on these boards, and will likely do so again, but as a mere platoon (later company) commander, and largely remembered for his own personal deeds of valour, doesn’t he fall outside the remit of “leader” in this context? Pish tosh. 🙂 Oh, OK, the Op did ask about Generals and the like. Well.. in that case… and still fudging from the OP, I’ll offer a Brit, **Major Bagnold** (yes, yes… just a Major… but with a very odd and detached command) :), who led the [Long Range Desert Group](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group), which consisted (initially) of NZ troops released to the Brits by Fryberg, and was later quite a Commonwealth operation. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:31am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/65 "2009-08-27T03:31:39Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > I’m struggling to think of the names of any specifically Canadian historical military leaders. Lots of Brits and French leaders who fought in Canada, of course - Wolfe and Montcalm, Brock, etc. Maybe Papineau and Mackenzie, but I think they qualify more as political leaders than military leaders. Wolfred Nelson apparently did command Patriote forces during the Rebellions, and while he’s not especially well-known I did know his name. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 3:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/66 "2009-08-27T03:42:00Z")
> [@Malthus](#): > > There are lots of Canadian leaders, but they don’t have the same name recognition. Everyone knows who Wolfe was; Sir Arthur Currie and Sam Hughes, I’m ashamed to admit, I’d have to look up. You’ve never read _Starship Troopers_??? 😉 More seriously, as a lawyer, you would probably find [The Last Day, The Last Hour - The Currie Libel Trial](http://www.osgoodesociety.ca/books/book-19881.html), by Justice Sharpe of the Ontario Court of Appeal, a very interesting read. ---
**Author:** ![flodnak](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/838e76/32.png) [@flodnak](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/flodnak)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/67 "2009-08-27T07:05:27Z")
Much of Norway’s history is a history of getting dragged into _other people’s_ wars, but… There’s always [Tordenskjold.](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Peter_Tordenskjold) Mind you, that wasn’t his real name, which was the rather boring Peter Wessel. Still, you have to figure that a guy who would come to get the nickname of Thunder Shield was not destined for life as a bank clerk. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/68 "2009-08-27T07:56:15Z")
> [@RetroVertigo](#): > > Better? No. > > More evenly matched, without all the women and kids to get in the way? Probably. In the Creek War, Americans killed Creek civilians, and Creeks killed American civilians (and Creeks killed Creek civilians. It was a Creek civil war). In fact, one of the things that brought the Americans into the war was the Fort Mims Massacre, where Creek Red Sticks killed almost 300 American civilians, including women and children. In fact, there weren’t that many civilian Creek deaths in the war. ---
**Author:** ![Arnold\_Winkelried](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/3d9bf3/32.png) [@Arnold\_Winkelried](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Arnold_Winkelried)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:03pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/69 "2009-08-27T18:03:13Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > Anyone else find the concept of a Swiss civil war astonishing? Why would you find it astonishing? The Swiss are always very polite, even nowadays. ---
**Author:** ![ElvisL1ves](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/5daacb/32.png) [@ElvisL1ves](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/ElvisL1ves)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 6:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/70 "2009-08-27T18:05:32Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > From Switzerland, the names that I can think of without looking them up: What, no Wilhelm Tell? 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Alessan](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alessan/32/465_2.png) [@Alessan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Alessan)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/71 "2009-08-27T19:06:35Z")
The Bulgarians claim **Belisarius** , possible the greatest general ever to live. Do not contradict them on this. > [@willthekittensurvive](#): > > Well, the Dutch military has [Thom Karremans](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thom_Karremans), the commander of Dutchbat troops in Srebrenica, during the civil war in Bosnia. He told Serb General Ratko Mladic “not to shoot the piano player”, and let the Serbs take Srebrenica. > > Not our finest hour > > I know the truth is more complex but, and he never received the support he needed …but still > We also had had [Michiel de Ruyter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michiel_de_Ruyter)who sailed up the river Thames and stole the Brittish flagship ending the Second Anglo-Dutch War You also had a couple of guys called **William of Orange**. They seemed to know their way around a battlefield. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/72 "2009-08-27T19:17:06Z")
Yes, and as I mentioned earlier, [Maurice of Nassau](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maurice_of_Nassau) and [Frederik Hendrik, Prince of Orange,](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederick_Henry,_Prince_of_Orange) the latter of whom had what is undoubtedly [the best funeral procession of all time](http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/eb/Funeral_procession_of_Frederik_Hendrik_prince_of_Orange.jpg) (hint - click on the image to magnify it.) ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 27, 2009, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/73 "2009-08-27T19:54:23Z")
> [@Arnold\_Winkelried](#): > > Why would you find it astonishing? The Swiss are always very polite, even nowadays. Well done. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 10:12am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/74 "2009-08-28T10:12:29Z")
> [@Apollyon](#): > > Pish tosh. 🙂 Oh, Upham unquestionably had balls enough for a dozen ordinary men, and could well from his biography have been a thorough-going asshole in ordinary life, though he calmed down after the war - but there are times when an asshole is just what you need, as long as it’s mostly the other side he’s being an asshole too. A bit like Douglas Bader if you ask me. (Interesting that they were both at Colditz at the same time, but neither’s biography mentions the other. It’s surprising that the old castle was able to accommodate those two outsize personalities.) _Revenons a nos moutons…_ > [@Apollyon](#): > > Oh, OK, the Op did ask about Generals and the like. > > Well.. in that case… and still fudging from the OP, I’ll offer a Brit, **Major Bagnold** (yes, yes… just a Major… but with a very odd and detached command) :), who led the [Long Range Desert Group](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Long_Range_Desert_Group), which consisted (initially) of NZ troops released to the Brits by Fryberg, and was later quite a Commonwealth operation. Ah, the LRDG. And in a similar vein, [Orde Wingate](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orde_Wingate#Chindits_and_the_First_Long-Range_Jungle_Penetration_Mission), a card-carrying oddball but one who handed the Japanese a few surprises at the very least. ---
**Author:** ![JoseArcadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@JoseArcadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseArcadio)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 11:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/75 "2009-08-28T11:35:01Z")
First ones that spring to mind: William Wallace Robert the Bruce Bonnie Prince Charlie Hector “Fighting Mac” MacDonald ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/76 "2009-08-28T12:18:11Z")
I thought Douglas Haig would get the nod in Scotland. ---
**Author:** ![JoseArcadio](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/9fc348/32.png) [@JoseArcadio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseArcadio)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/77 "2009-08-28T12:44:09Z")
Oh darn, can’t believe I forgot big Dougie Haig! Good call, **Cicero**. ---
**Author:** ![Cicero](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cicero/32/3594_2.png) [@Cicero](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cicero)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 12:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/78 "2009-08-28T12:53:17Z")
I guess Haig is probably not as well known as William Wallace or Robert the Bruce but he certainly wielded far more power than either. ---
**Author:** ![Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/e8c25b/32.png) [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Really_Not_All_That_Bright)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 1:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/79 "2009-08-28T13:49:16Z")
I doubt anyone outside Scotland would have heard of William Wallace if not for _Braveheart_. He wasn’t mentioned in any of my history textbooks, that’s for sure (although the schools I went to only taught Scottish history as it related to English history, such as when James VI took the English throne too). ---
**Author:** ![Tamerlane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tamerlane/32/7602_2.png) [@Tamerlane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tamerlane)\ **Post date:** [August 28, 2009, 5:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515/80 "2009-08-28T17:18:00Z")
> [@Really\_Not\_All\_That\_Bright](#): > > I doubt anyone outside Scotland would have heard of William Wallace if not for _Braveheart_. I’m anyone. Darn it all :). [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-are-your-countrys-best-known-historic-military-leaders/507515.md?page=5)