# Who Beat Spock? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733 "2013-01-29T19:21:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/1 "2013-01-29T19:21:34Z")
In the movie _Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country_, there is this exchange: Captain Spock: The lieutenant was the first Vulcan to be graduated at the top of her class. Captain James T. Kirk: You must be very proud. Lieutenant Valeris: I don’t believe so. Commander Leonard ‘Bones’ McCoy, M.D.: She’s a Vulcan all right. Yippee for Valeris, but who beat Spock? Not Kirk, obviously, since he’s much younger than Spock. Not McCoy, since Star Fleet Medical is almost certainly a different thing than Star Fleet Academy, and besides, if McCoy had beat Spock, he never would have let him forget it. Scotty, maybe? Or some other person? Do any of the novels (or an episode I missed) mention this? Or, since I think Spock was one of the first to go through the Academy, was there prejudice against him? Or maybe somebody hacked into the computers to change the grades so that somebody else was first? (We know the computers can be fiddled with, Kirk did it with the Kobayashi Maru.) ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/2 "2013-01-29T19:26:08Z")
Starfleet Academy is strongly biased toward human decision-making and command training. I am not surprised that Spock was not able to fake his responses to match those defined by humans. ---
**Author:** ![YogSothoth](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/y/8edcca/32.png) [@YogSothoth](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/YogSothoth)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/3 "2013-01-29T19:31:58Z")
Maybe since Spock is half-human, they didn’t count him as the first Vulcan? ---
**Author:** ![Terminus\_Est](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/terminus_est/32/3087_2.png) [@Terminus\_Est](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Terminus_Est)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/4 "2013-01-29T19:33:21Z")
[Lizard beats Spock.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSLeBKT7-sM) ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/5 "2013-01-29T19:45:38Z")
Why are you assuming it was anyone portrayed on the show? Or it could be someone who was on the _Antares_ when Charlie Evans destroyed it. ---
**Author:** ![Skammer](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skammer/32/143_2.png) [@Skammer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skammer)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/6 "2013-01-29T20:02:09Z")
According to the Star Trek wikipedia, Spock was only one year ahead of Kirk at the academy (Spock: 2249-2253; Kirk, 2250-2254). Doesn’t answer your question though. ETA: Scotty was several years ahead, 2240-'44 ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/7 "2013-01-29T20:26:36Z")
Probably some Asian kid with a pushy mom. ---
**Author:** ![standingwave](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9de0a6/32.png) [@standingwave](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/standingwave)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/8 "2013-01-29T20:29:24Z")
> [@Terminus\_Est](#): > > [Lizard beats Spock.](http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cSLeBKT7-sM) Also, [paper disproves Spock](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock-paper-scissors-lizard-Spock), which I find highly unlikely. ---
**Author:** ![StGermain](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/stgermain/32/2868_2.png) [@StGermain](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/StGermain)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/9 "2013-01-29T20:35:06Z")
Chuck Norris. Duh. StG ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/10 "2013-01-29T20:47:33Z")
I’ve been watching the remastered TOS lately, and one thing that I’d never picked up on before is that Spock is far from a model officer. He often acts unilaterally, without consulting with other officers, and he has trouble inspiring confidence in men under his command, in large part because he continually fails to take the emotions into account. I can easily see those traits holding back his grades at the Academy. ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 8:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/11 "2013-01-29T20:59:50Z")
My answer is to reject the notion that the Star Trek movies are canon. Hence I can still believe that Spock graduated at the top of his class. ---
**Author:** ![VOW](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/vow/32/3043_2.png) [@VOW](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/VOW)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/12 "2013-01-29T21:06:23Z")
Spock was at the top of his class (DUH!) but Valeris was the first full-blooded Vulcan to graduate at the top. IIRC, Spock was the first Vulcan of ANY kind to attend Starfleet Academy. Vulcans considered Starfleet to be warmongering. ~VOW ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/13 "2013-01-29T21:14:00Z")
> [@VOW](#): > > Spock was at the top of his class (DUH!) but Valeris was the first full-blooded Vulcan to graduate at the top. Half Romulan, I thought. Actually, wouldn’t that still be full-blooded Vulcan? I doubt the Vulcans would agree, but… ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/14 "2013-01-29T21:15:15Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Why are you assuming it was anyone portrayed on the show? > > Or it could be someone who was on the _Antares_ when Charlie Evans destroyed it. Jesus, that would be a sad, sad life. Graduate top of your class from the Academy, wind up driving\* a cargo ship, get killed on the whim of a pissant omnipotent alien. \*Or worse, crewing on. ---
**Author:** ![mlees](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@mlees](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/mlees)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/15 "2013-01-29T21:19:10Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Half Romulan, I thought. In Star Trek novels, Saavik (from TWoK) is half Romulan, not Valeris. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/16 "2013-01-29T21:23:58Z")
Spock was held back a year. An accident with a mechanical rice picker. fanwanked real answer (already posted upstream), Spock is not full blooded Vulcan. (ST:ENT taught us that Vulcanians are very prejudiced, in their own logical way.) ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/17 "2013-01-29T21:27:46Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > **Jesus** , that would be a sad, sad life. Graduate top of your class from the Academy, wind up driving\* a cargo ship, get killed on the whim of a pissant omnipotent alien. Change bold to **Surak** Vulcan smiley: :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![CJJ](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ecc23a/32.png) [@CJJ](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CJJ)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 9:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/18 "2013-01-29T21:52:22Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’ve been watching the remastered TOS lately, and one thing that I’d never picked up on before is that Spock is far from a model officer. He often acts unilaterally, without consulting with other officers, and he has trouble inspiring confidence in men under his command, in large part because he continually fails to take the emotions into account. A point that, I think the early episode _The Galileio Seven_ made pretty clear. IMO one of the main dramatic functions of the ongoing Spock/McCoy rivalry is that it vocalized the conflicting arguments leading to Kirk’s command decisions, making Kirk seem like the ideal commander. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/19 "2013-01-29T22:37:02Z")
> [@NoClueBoy](#): > > Change bold to **Surak** > > Vulcan smiley: :dubious: Failure. It is a difficult concept. ^:dubious:^ ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 10:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/20 "2013-01-29T22:44:55Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > a pissant omnipotent alien. Mea culpa. A pissant human-turned-omnipotent-freak by aliens. [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733.md?page=2)