# Who Beat Spock? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [January 29, 2013, 7:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733 "2013-01-29T19:21:34Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Chimera](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/8e8cbc/32.png) [@Chimera](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chimera)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/21 "2013-01-29T23:11:39Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I’ve been watching the remastered TOS lately, and one thing that I’d never picked up on before is that Spock is far from a model officer. He often acts unilaterally, without consulting with other officers, and he has trouble inspiring confidence in men under his command, in large part because he continually fails to take the emotions into account. Bingo! When everyone else was prattling on about how great Spock was, I was standing there going “Really? Have you seen the episodes when he’s in command? He’s an asshole!” ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/22 "2013-01-29T23:23:40Z")
Spock is indeed surprisingly incompetent at times, the single worst example being, I guess, that scene in _Whom Gods Destroy_: “Well, one of you is Captain Kirk and the other is a homicidal psychopath who _looks_ like Captain Kirk, so I’ll just turn my back while this gets sorted out…” ---
**Author:** ![KneadToKnow](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/kneadtoknow/32/3999_2.png) [@KneadToKnow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KneadToKnow)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/23 "2013-01-29T23:27:35Z")
Well, say what we may about his abilities as a student, he did finally come up with the definitive real-world solution to the _Kobayashi Maru_ test. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 29, 2013, 11:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/24 "2013-01-29T23:46:52Z")
> [@Ethilrist](#): > > Failure. It is a difficult concept. ^:dubious:^ Yeah, i wish they had added pointy ears, because the way you (& others) post it looks funny to me. ymmv ---
**Author:** ![Miller](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/miller/32/481_2.png) [@Miller](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Miller)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/25 "2013-01-30T02:58:00Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > A point that, I think the early episode _The Galileio Seven_ made pretty clear. IMO one of the main dramatic functions of the ongoing Spock/McCoy rivalry is that it vocalized the conflicting arguments leading to Kirk’s command decisions, making Kirk seem like the ideal commander. That’s just the episode I had in mind. Although in fairness to Spock, if I’d been in his shoes when that idiot demanded they hold a funeral service before they escaped the planet, I don’t think I could have stopped myself from drawing a phaser on him. ---
**Author:** ![The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/the_other_waldo_pepper/32/12370_2.png) [@The\_Other\_Waldo\_Pepper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Other_Waldo_Pepper)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/26 "2013-01-30T03:05:25Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Well, say what we may about his abilities as a student, he did finally come up with the definitive real-world solution to the _Kobayashi Maru_ test. That sure is a fancy way of saying _“Get Saved By Captain Kirk.”_ ---
**Author:** ![Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tim_r.mortiss/32/142_2.png) [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tim_R.Mortiss)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 3:19am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/27 "2013-01-30T03:19:25Z")
> [@CJJ](#): > > A point that, I think the early episode _The Galileio Seven_ made pretty clear. IMO one of the main dramatic functions of the ongoing Spock/McCoy rivalry is that it vocalized the conflicting arguments leading to Kirk’s command decisions, making Kirk seem like the ideal commander. I always thought of the three of them as the perfect Freudian trio: Spock was Ego, McCoy was Superego, Kirk was pure Id. ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 7:03am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/28 "2013-01-30T07:03:48Z")
> [@Bryan\_Ekers](#): > > Spock is indeed surprisingly incompetent at times, the single worst example being, I guess, that scene in _Whom Gods Destroy_: “Well, one of you is Captain Kirk and the other is a homicidal psychopath who _looks_ like Captain Kirk, so I’ll just turn my back while this gets sorted out…” _The Paradise Syndrome_, too. “It’s months until this asteroid hits the planet, but instead of spending the time trying to figure out a Plan B, I’m going to order Mr Scott to keep the phasers firing until the warp drive burns out and we’re firmly painted into this corner. That way, if the Captain’s in trouble on the planet, I can ensure he doesn’t get any help until about five minutes before the rock hits, instead of later this afternoon.” ---
**Author:** ![Thudlow\_Boink](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/thudlow_boink/32/320_2.png) [@Thudlow\_Boink](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Thudlow_Boink)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 1:09pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/29 "2013-01-30T13:09:21Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I always thought of the three of them as the perfect Freudian trio: Spock was Ego, McCoy was Superego, Kirk was pure Id. **Pure Id** in command of a starship? :dubious: ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 1:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/30 "2013-01-30T13:15:45Z")
> [@Thudlow\_Boink](#): > > **Pure Id** in command of a starship? :dubious: What does **Pure Id** need with a starship? ---
**Author:** ![Bryan\_Ekers](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bryan_ekers/32/183_2.png) [@Bryan\_Ekers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bryan_Ekers)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/31 "2013-01-30T14:26:00Z")
Hey, you don’t ask Id for his I.D. ---
**Author:** ![John\_DiFool](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/john_difool/32/19543_2.png) [@John\_DiFool](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/John_DiFool)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 2:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/32 "2013-01-30T14:55:18Z")
> [@Tim\_R.Mortiss](#): > > I always thought of the three of them as the perfect Freudian trio: Spock was Ego, McCoy was Superego, Kirk was pure Id. Got that all wrong: Spock=Superego, McCoy=Id, Kirk=Ego (as in he makes the final decisions). ---
**Author:** ![AK84](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/85e7bf/32.png) [@AK84](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AK84)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 6:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/33 "2013-01-30T18:12:30Z")
> [@Skammer](#): > > According to the Star Trek wikipedia, Spock was only one year ahead of Kirk at the academy (Spock: 2249-2253; Kirk, 2250-2254). Doesn’t answer your question though. > > ETA: Scotty was several years ahead, 2240-'44 I can understand Scotty, but Spock was the First Officer. If Kirk is an O-6 (Captain) than Spock cannot be a Lt Commander in the first season and a Commander in the second. As First Officer he is clearly in line for a command of his own, it does not make sence that he is senior to Kirk. ---
**Author:** ![AncientHumanoid](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ancienthumanoid/32/278_2.png) [@AncientHumanoid](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AncientHumanoid)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 6:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/34 "2013-01-30T18:20:13Z")
The Federation is a Homo Sapiens Only club (incorrect statement made during dinner party in ST-VI:TUD) Who is the monsters from the id? Wesley? ---
**Author:** ![rocking\_chair](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/rocking_chair/32/2918_2.png) [@rocking\_chair](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/rocking_chair)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 11:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/35 "2013-01-30T23:19:26Z")
perhaps spock was first in academics, but not in the “plays well with others”; which did something to his grade average. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 30, 2013, 11:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/36 "2013-01-30T23:26:57Z")
> [@Dendarii\_Dame](#): > > In the movie _Star Trek: The Undiscovered Country_, there is this exchange: > Captain Spock: The lieutenant was the first Vulcan to be graduated at the top of her class. > Captain James T. Kirk: You must be very proud. > Lieutenant Valeris: I don’t believe so. > Commander Leonard ‘Bones’ McCoy, M.D.: She’s a Vulcan all right. > Yippee for Valeris, but who beat Spock? Not Kirk, obviously, since he’s much younger than Spock. Not McCoy, since Star Fleet Medical is almost certainly a different thing than Star Fleet Academy, and besides, if McCoy had beat Spock, he never would have let him forget it. Scotty, maybe? Or some other person? Do any of the novels (or an episode I missed) mention this? > > Or, since I think Spock was one of the first to go through the Academy, was there prejudice against him? Or maybe somebody hacked into the computers to change the grades so that somebody else was first? (We know the computers can be fiddled with, Kirk did it with the Kobayashi Maru.) I don’t TOS!Kirk was _much_ younger than Spock. I took it that Spock was about 35 (Vulcan) years old in the second season, while Kirk was a fear years younger–early 30s or so, since he comments that he’s either 32 or 34 in the Deadly Years. That said, it’s easy for me to believe that Spock wasn’t first in his class. Starfleet seems to consist of mostly humans, and I can easily see Spock shining in some classes and doing poorly in others because he had difficulty seeing things from a human pov. ---
**Author:** ![Voyager](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/voyager/32/133_2.png) [@Voyager](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Voyager)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 12:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/37 "2013-01-31T00:59:42Z")
> [@AK84](#): > > I can understand Scotty, but Spock was the First Officer. If Kirk is an O-6 (Captain) than Spock cannot be a Lt Commander in the first season and a Commander in the second. As First Officer he is clearly in line for a command of his own, it does not make sence that he is senior to Kirk. In **The Galileo Seven** in the first season it was clearly stated that this was Spock’s first command. I think in other places it was clear that he was not interested in command - he became a diplomat, after all, not a senior Star Fleet officer after TOS. Aside from the reboot, I don’t recall any evidence that Spock and Kirk’s paths crossed in the Academy. In **The Corbomite Maneuver** he claims to never have heard of poker, which is odd for someone at the Academy - unless he was planning to fleece Scott and McCoy. ---
**Author:** ![Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ecccb3/32.png) [@Skald\_the\_Rhymer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skald_the_Rhymer)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/38 "2013-01-31T01:07:50Z")
> [@Voyager](#): > > In **The Galileo Seven** in the first season it was clearly stated that this was Spock’s first command. I think in other places it was clear that he was not interested in command - he became a diplomat, after all, not a senior Star Fleet officer after TOS. > Aside from the reboot, I don’t recall any evidence that Spock and Kirk’s paths crossed in the Academy. In **The Corbomite Maneuver** he claims to never have heard of poker, which is odd for someone at the Academy - unless he was planning to fleece Scott and McCoy. I choose to believe that Galileo 7 never happened. The premise is simply stupid. Spock wasn’t some random officer; he was the ship’s first officer. Even given Kirk’s propensity for leading landing parties himself, I just can’t believe that Spock had never once been in charge of such a mission. For Athena’s sake, SULU was in charge of the landing party in that episode when Kirk got split in two and Wolf!Kirk tried to rape Janice Rand. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 2:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/39 "2013-01-31T02:40:10Z")
> [@KneadToKnow](#): > > Jesus, that would be a sad, sad life. Graduate top of your class from the Academy, wind up driving\* a cargo ship, get killed on the whim of a pissant omnipotent alien. > > \*Or worse, crewing on. I agree with the Walt Kelly principle: characters mentioned in passing may actually have far more interesting and adventurous lives than those on the show. Maybe other ships had far more interesting adventures than _the Enterprise._ ---
**Author:** ![Dendarii\_Dame](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/bbce88/32.png) [@Dendarii\_Dame](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dendarii_Dame)\ **Post date:** [January 31, 2013, 2:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733/40 "2013-01-31T14:43:11Z")
> [@rocking\_chair](#): > > perhaps spock was first in academics, but not in the “plays well with others”; which did something to his grade average. Or–horrors!–maybe Spock ran with scissors. 🙂 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-beat-spock/648733.md?page=3)