# Who buys crappy cars? **URL:** \ **Category:** In My Humble Opinion\ **Created:** [October 4, 2011, 1:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546 "2011-10-04T13:44:12Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/21 "2011-10-04T15:52:52Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > 1. The buyers have different standards than the car magazines about what constitutes a good car. > > 2. Even in a car that’s crappy, there are thousands of them that run well for years without problems. > > 3. Much of the determination is based upon things like styling, which is purely subjective. Or road noise, which doesn’t bother a lot of people. Or acceleration, which many drivers aren’t going to notice. > > 4. Cost. The car may be cheaper to buy and operate. 1. Agreed, if somebody wanted a car strictly for transportation I would not suggest they read reviews from Car and Driver magazine. And if someone’s highest priority was handling/ fun to drive I wouldn’t use consumer reports as my primary source of information. But there are some cars that all the major publications agree are crap. 2. Sure, but why would you pick a car that is much worse when there is a better option is available for the close to the same price. And usually these cars are much more likely to have problems. 3. I understand when cars are relatively close and someone decides they want to pick the one that looks better. I also understand when people decide something (road noise, rough ride, etc.) is not an issue for them when they buy a car. But the cars I am talking about are usually worse than the competition in almost every way. 4. I already mentioned that better cars are usually cheaper in the long run due to better reliability and higher resale value. And often the better car is cheaper initially too. ---
**Author:** ![madmonk28](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/madmonk28/32/20811_2.png) [@madmonk28](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/madmonk28)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/22 "2011-10-04T15:59:23Z")
One issue is that it takes a while for a consensus to form as to whether a car is a piece of junk. If were one of the first people to buy a Pinto, you didn’t have a wealth of knowledge built up about the car. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/23 "2011-10-04T16:01:38Z")
> [@Anachronism](#): > > Not sure what the ‘why?’ is to. I say it’s a piece of junk because it scored 28 in consumer reports and I have seen other bad reviews. It is priced close to cars that are much more useful and practical like the Honda Fit. It does get better mileage but the fact that it needs premium negates some of that cost savings. Despite its better mileage Consumer Reports also shows it as having a higher total cost than the Honda Fit. The total cost number does seem to vary a bit depending on who calculates it. > > I am sure some people are willing to spend more or suffer with the short commings just for the ‘look at me’ factor or the ‘hey, I’m saving the planet’ message they want to send. I agree with that. The Smart Fortwo only seats two people and (I think) no luggage not even groceries. The mileage is in the mid-30s and the cost is roughly similar to a base Honda Fit. The Fit, on the other hand, has mileage of 27 city/33 highway, four doors, seat four or five people and still has room for luggage or groceries. I really don’t see the appeal of the Fortwo, unless you’re parking in the city a lot and the small size is appealing for that reason. (But then I bought a Honda Fit last year, so perhaps I’m biased.) ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/24 "2011-10-04T16:02:22Z")
Having looked at the list that **Anachronism** posted, I’m wondering if a big part of the answer to his question might be “rental companies”, which results in high numbers of these cars showing up in the used car market, where they are really cheap. ---
**Author:** ![joebuck20](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/74df32/32.png) [@joebuck20](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/joebuck20)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/25 "2011-10-04T16:30:04Z")
> [@Crotalus](#): > > Having looked at the list that **Anachronism** posted, I’m wondering if a big part of the answer to his question might be “rental companies”, which results in high numbers of these cars showing up in the used car market, where they are really cheap. Purely anecdotal here, but I have gotten quite a few Aveos (one of the cars Anachronism mentions as being crappy) when I’ve rented, so you may have a point. ---
**Author:** ![Crotalus](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crotalus/32/41_2.png) [@Crotalus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crotalus)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/26 "2011-10-04T16:44:35Z")
> [@joebuck20](#): > > Purely anecdotal here, but I have gotten quite a few Aveos (one of the cars Anachronism mentions as being crappy) when I’ve rented, so you may have a point. Aveo was the name that triggered my thoughts; I have rented a few and seen many more on the rental lots when I travel. More recently, Chrysler products have been more common. ---
**Author:** ![WolfpackJeep](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolfpackjeep/32/2921_2.png) [@WolfpackJeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/WolfpackJeep)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 4:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/27 "2011-10-04T16:57:39Z")
Some people probably don’t care what _Consumer Reports_ has to say about the car they intend to purchase. I haven’t paid any attention to them since 1997 or so…their review of my then-new vehicle listed many issues that I had not encountered or simply didn’t agree with (in particular, I recall the review saying some really harsh things about the steering that did not hold true in my experience). ---
**Author:** ![thelabdude](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dc4da7/32.png) [@thelabdude](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/thelabdude)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/28 "2011-10-04T17:16:44Z")
I have a strong pro American bias and most of the ratings have a strong anti American bias. I don’t remember, may not have even looked, but I am sure my 02 Cavalier didn’t rate well. It is now pushing 10 years and 200K and still going strong with very little expense outside wear items. Note, wear items doesn’t a timing belt. They are a a big deal and the magazines all give the forign companies a pass on them. ---
**Author:** ![jz78817](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jz78817/32/1028_2.png) [@jz78817](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/jz78817)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 5:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/29 "2011-10-04T17:32:26Z")
the problem is that car mags are almost universally staffed by some levels of experts and enthusiasts. As has been already said, what they think is a crappy car isn’t what the average consumer thinks. For example, Car and Driver had a comparison of compact cars in the most recent issue. The Nissan Versa was way at the bottom of the rankings, because it was slow, had soft handling, and very low-cost interior materials. But the person who is looking to buy a Versa doesn’t care about any of that. they see an inexpensive car from a respectable brand, and meets their basic needs. They don’t care if the Fiesta has better interior materials, or the Fit is more reliable, or the Mazda 2 handles a lot better. **ETA:** this is kind of why I hate comparison tests in magazines. A car can end up last in the rankings, but still be competent, and objectively not a bad car. But it looks like that because of the 7th place finish. ---
**Author:** ![Moonlitherial](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4bbf92/32.png) [@Moonlitherial](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Moonlitherial)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/30 "2011-10-04T18:22:51Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > I agree with that. The Smart Fortwo only seats two people and (I think) no luggage not even groceries. The mileage is in the mid-30s and the cost is roughly similar to a base Honda Fit. The Fit, on the other hand, has mileage of 27 city/33 highway, four doors, seat four or five people and still has room for luggage or groceries. I really don’t see the appeal of the Fortwo, unless you’re parking in the city a lot and the small size is appealing for that reason. > > (But then I bought a Honda Fit last year, so perhaps I’m biased.) We just bought the Smart so I’m a little biased on the other side but I can clear up some misconceptions in your post. There is an amazing amount of space inside the Smart. It does hold only two passengers but I have more legroom in it than I do in our minivan. For cargo space, I was able to fit 2 40lb bags of dogfood and 4 bags of groceries without taking off the cargo cover while running errands this weekend. Since this was a purchase primarily for my husband he did most of the research and the Fit was his second choice. Major change for us since we have only purchased Ford vehicles our entire marriage thanks to his brother’s family plan rates. What the final decision came down to was that for the options we wanted the Fit was slightly more expensive and we had absolutely no need for the extra two seats. Even though the cost delta was fairly low it was a delta for an unneeded and unwanted extra. We’ve had it for almost 3 weeks now and we’re pretty happy with it. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/31 "2011-10-04T18:34:29Z")
> [@Anachronism](#): > > 1. Sure, but why would you pick a car that is much worse when there is a better option is available for the close to the same price. And usually these cars are much more likely to have problems. Other factors, like the dealer is in a more convenient location, gives a better deal, is someone you’ve bought from before and trust. And likely is “likely” and not necessarily true of any one car of that make or model. Many of these “crap cars” will run perfectly fine for the time the owner wants them to. > [@](#): > > 1. I understand when cars are relatively close and someone decides they want to pick the one that looks better. I also understand when people decide something (road noise, rough ride, etc.) is not an issue for them when they buy a car. But the cars I am talking about are usually worse than the competition in almost every way. “Almost every way” – but according to the criteria of the reviewer. It may be superior according to the buyer. > [@](#): > > 1. I already mentioned that better cars are usually cheaper in the long run due to better reliability and higher resale value. And often the better car is cheaper initially too. Resale value doesn’t mean a thing if you plan to keep the car for over ten years. (I try to keep mine for 20.) I know there will be no resale value, so I don’t care. And again, someone may buy a car that the reviews say is unreliable and have it run 20 years, while someone else might buy a highly recommended car that craps out after three. Each car is different and your “better” car might end up costing more in the long run – you can’t tell. My parents owned an Edsel; they were very happy with it – it ran just fine. The question is whether the car is going to get you dependably from place to place, and there are thousands of the crappiest cars out there (as named by the car experts) that do that quite well. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/32 "2011-10-04T18:42:54Z")
> [@Moonlitherial](#): > > We just bought the Smart so I’m a little biased on the other side but I can clear up some misconceptions in your post. There is an amazing amount of space inside the Smart. It does hold only two passengers but I have more legroom in it than I do in our minivan. For cargo space, I was able to fit 2 40lb bags of dogfood and 4 bags of groceries without taking off the cargo cover while running errands this weekend. So were you able to carry the driver, passenger, groceries and dog food, or did the groceries and dog food take up the passenger’s space? ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:51pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/33 "2011-10-04T18:51:57Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > So were you able to carry the driver, passenger, groceries and dog food, or did the groceries and dog food take up the passenger’s space? There is space for all that behind the seats. The rear visibility might be compromised if the dog food bag was on end, but the shelf was designed to hold groceries. In a city like Chicago, being able to fit into a particular parking space is worth thousands of dollars. ---
**Author:** ![Dewey\_Finn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dewey_finn/32/4222_2.png) [@Dewey\_Finn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Dewey_Finn)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/34 "2011-10-04T18:56:32Z")
OK. I was under the (mistaken) impression that there was no cargo room in the Fortwo. But I’m still disappointed in the mileage, at least on the American version. The European version gets better mileage, especially in the diesel version. ---
**Author:** ![gaffa](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/g/e68b1a/32.png) [@gaffa](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/gaffa)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 6:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/35 "2011-10-04T18:59:22Z")
> [@Dewey\_Finn](#): > > OK. I was under the (mistaken) impression that there was no cargo room in the Fortwo. But I’m still disappointed in the mileage, at least on the American version. The European version gets better mileage, especially in the diesel version. I checked the [US web site,](http://www.smartusa.com/models/pure-coupe/specifications.aspx) and it states that there is: Luggage compartment capacity: 7.8 (up tp beltline)/12 (to roof) cu. ft. I don’t drive, so I have no stake in this, but I have to say the ForTwo is comfortable. I’m 6’ tall and 248 lbs, and I routinely hit my head getting into SUVs - most of them are just so poorly designed. And the Smart had a lot more legroom than the SUVs, minivans and even a lot of sedans I’ve been a passenger in. ---
**Author:** ![Anaamika](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/5f9b8f/32.png) [@Anaamika](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anaamika)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/36 "2011-10-04T19:18:18Z")
Well. I’m a girl and a bit of a car geek, but I’d still buy a car because of its sexiness/cuteness quotient and the cost and not necessarily what a bunch of car magazines say. I mean, if I could afford a Lotus Elise, I’d buy it. Instead I am looking at Matrixes, Focuses, Yarises, etc., because they are in my price range and they are cute! ---
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/37 "2011-10-04T19:18:34Z")
> [@WolfpackJeep](#): > > Some people probably don’t care what _Consumer Reports_ has to say about the car they intend to purchase. I haven’t paid any attention to them since 1997 or so…their review of my then-new vehicle listed many issues that I had not encountered or simply didn’t agree with (in particular, I recall the review saying some really harsh things about the steering that did not hold true in my experience). I know I mentioned Consumer Reports specifically but that was for several reasons I already mentioned. The cars I am talking about get horrible reviews in all the magazines and on mainstream websites. > [@jz78817](#): > > the problem is that car mags are almost universally staffed by some levels of experts and enthusiasts. As has been already said, what they think is a crappy car isn’t what the average consumer thinks. For example, Car and Driver had a comparison of compact cars in the most recent issue. The Nissan Versa was way at the bottom of the rankings, because it was slow, had soft handling, and very low-cost interior materials. But the person who is looking to buy a Versa doesn’t care about any of that. they see an inexpensive car from a respectable brand, and meets their basic needs. They don’t care if the Fiesta has better interior materials, or the Fit is more reliable, or the Mazda 2 handles a lot better. > > **ETA:** this is kind of why I hate comparison tests in magazines. A car can end up last in the rankings, but still be competent, and objectively not a bad car. But it looks like that because of the 7th place finish. I have read many magazine articles where the last place car has some sort of description like ‘if you don’t care about handling you might like this car’ and ‘it was close but this car was just edged out’. There are also cars that get described as having no good points and being awful - these are the cars I am talking about. (I don’t save back issues so I can’t pull up any examples. - 😛 Just got my most recent issue of Car and Driver, they don’t have much good to say about the Versa but they don’t talk about it like some of the truly awful cars I mentioned above.) I am repeating myself but if you are a driving enthusiast I would read reviews in magazines like car and driver and if I cared more about other things I would read magazines like consumer reports. For what it’s worth Consumer reports ranked the Versa third in the Subcompacts segment. I am not sure why anybody would not prefer better reliability or better interior materials if they could be had for the same price. 😕 ---
**Author:** ![Kevbo](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/e47774/32.png) [@Kevbo](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kevbo)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 7:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/38 "2011-10-04T19:54:14Z")
The MSRP may be quite close, but if a car is getting very bad reviews and selling poorly, then dealers will be motivated to discount them heavily. So the actual street price of the crappy car can be quite a bit lower than the MSRP suggests. ---
**Author:** ![Anachronism](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e56c9b/32.png) [@Anachronism](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Anachronism)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/39 "2011-10-04T20:44:25Z")
> [@Kevbo](#): > > The MSRP may be quite close, but if a car is getting very bad reviews and selling poorly, then dealers will be motivated to discount them heavily. So the actual street price of the crappy car can be quite a bit lower than the MSRP suggests. I agree and while I think price is a legitimate reason for buying a lesser car some cars are so bad that there is practically no way they could be discounted enough to make them a good value. Also, I should have mentioned - I took a quick look using \*Edmunds True Market Value and even the actual selling prices of some of these cars is close. The Honda fit sells for a little more than a thousand dollars more than a Chevy Aveo. While I admit $1000 is a significant difference especially when talking a about a $15000 car you are talking about $20 a month on a typical 5 year loan. Furthermore the Fit is a much better car and when you factory in repairs and resale value it should cost you less overall. The Dodge Nitro sells for over $1000 more than the much better rated Ford escape. I have no particular love of the Honda Fit or hatred of the Chevy Aveo, I just think they are good examples of good and bad cars in the same category that are closely priced. - Edmunds True Market Value figures the average selling price if cars based on the price reported when cars are registered. ---
**Author:** ![Wheelz](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wheelz/32/5718_2.png) [@Wheelz](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wheelz)\ **Post date:** [October 4, 2011, 8:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546/40 "2011-10-04T20:55:55Z")
> [@Anachronism](#): > > Dodge Caliber - Not as bad as the others but still with a score of 49 significantly lower than anything in it’s category. I’ve taken some crap for buying a Caliber 2 years ago, but I’m quite satisfied with it. I bought it used, and it was WAY cheaper than anything comparable. I could afford to spend more, but I chose not to. It gets me to work and back every day, gets pretty decent gas mileage and it’s comfortable to drive for a relatively big guy like me. It doesn’t look like anything else, which IMO is a feature, not a bug. The look has actually grown on me. Do I own the fanciest car on the block? Nope. But I contend that it was a good buy for my money; it suits my needs just fine and I’ve yet to have the slightest hint of a problem with it. “Crappy” is in the eye of the beholder, I guess. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-buys-crappy-cars/598546.md?page=3)