# Who came up with the idea that lasers are invidual projectiles? **URL:** \ **Category:** Cafe Society\ **Created:** [October 21, 2014, 4:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036 "2014-10-21T16:23:52Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 12:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/21 "2014-10-22T12:30:25Z")
> [@Grestarian](#): > > Furthermore, the term is a misuse of an acronym that became uncontrollably popular as a sci-fi trope. LASER stands for Light And Sound Emitting Ray Um, no. light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation > **[Laser](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser)** > > A laser is a device that emits light through a process of optical amplification based on the stimulated emission of electromagnetic radiation. The word laser originated as an acronym for light amplification by stimulated emission of radiation. The first laser was built in 1960 by Theodore Maiman at Hughes Research Laboratories, based on theoretical work by Charles H. Townes and Arthur Leonard Schawlow. > A laser differs from other sources of light in that it emits light that is coherent. Spati... However, “LABSEOR” sounded weird, so they skipped a couple words. ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 1:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/22 "2014-10-22T13:53:07Z")
> [@The\_Joker\_and\_the\_Thief](#): > > Yes, cheap LED flashlights do this. The human eye can’t detect a flicker below 50000 Hz, generally (most people still won’t be able to see a substantially lower flicker rate, and some people claim to see it even at 50000 Hz). 50,000Hz? Try 100Hz. ---
**Author:** ![Chronos](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/chronos/32/134_2.png) [@Chronos](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Chronos)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/23 "2014-10-22T14:22:32Z")
> [@](#): > > Quoth **Exapno** : > > Cal, are you referring to [How the Ray Gun Got Its Zap: Odd Excursions into Optics](http://www.amazon.com/How-Ray-Gun-Got-Its/dp/0199948011/ref=sr_1_2?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1413944035&sr=1-2&keywords=zap+gun) by UofR professor Stephen R. Wilk? It’s a fine addition to the tradition of collecting columns for a scientific publication, in this case Optics and Photonics News, and making them available to the general reader. If not, I’d be grateful if you named the other book. I think that, given certain circumstantial evidence, there’s an extremely high chance that that is indeed the book that **CalMeacham** is referring to. ---
**Author:** ![MrDibble](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mrdibble/32/114_2.png) [@MrDibble](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MrDibble)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 2:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/24 "2014-10-22T14:34:00Z")
> [@Miller](#): > > I suspect this meme was originally inspired by tracer bullets. That would be my guess too. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 2:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/25 "2014-10-22T14:38:40Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > I think that, given certain circumstantial evidence, there’s an extremely high chance that that is indeed the book that **CalMeacham** is referring to. I’d just like to point out, in the interests of accuracy, that the book jacket indicates that Dr. Wilk is not, in fact, a professor at the University of Rochester, or anywhere else. I think Rochester would be shocked if he was. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/26 "2014-10-22T15:10:59Z")
> [@CalMeacham](#): > > I’d just like to point out, in the interests of accuracy, that the book jacket indicates that Dr. Wilk is not, in fact, a professor at the University of Rochester, or anywhere else. I think Rochester would be shocked if he was. I feel as slow as one of those visible laser beams that people can duck out of the way of. I discovered the book in a profile of the Good Doctor in the UofR magazine, which normally saves those for current professors and which certainly left the impression in my brain he was one. And I got the ebook edition. Ain’t no jacket. Another reason I prefer print. So the penny just dropped, Cal, and Dr. Wilk can be assured that the compliment was totally disinterested. ---
**Author:** ![DrCube](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/a3d4f5/32.png) [@DrCube](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrCube)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 5:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/27 "2014-10-22T17:34:26Z")
> [@beowulff](#): > > 50,000Hz? > Try 100Hz. More like 24fps. 🙂 > **[Frame rate](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate)** > > Frame rate, most commonly expressed in .mw-parser-output .vanchor\>:target~.vanchor-text{background-color:#b1d2ff}@media screen{html.skin-theme-clientpref-night .mw-parser-output .vanchor\>:target~.vanchor-text{background-color:#0f4dc9}}@media screen and (prefers-color-scheme:dark){html.skin-theme-clientpref-os .mw-parser-output .vanchor\>:target~.vanchor-text{background-color:#0f4dc9}}frames per second or FPS, is typically the frequency (rate) at which consecutive images (frames) are captured or di... Wiki mentions old home movies were filmed at 16 or 18fps, but you can see them flicker. I think 20fps is around the flicker limit of human vision, and that’s why the film industry standardized at 24fps early on. ---
**Author:** ![Balance](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/ccd318/32.png) [@Balance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Balance)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 5:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/28 "2014-10-22T17:49:24Z")
On lasers versus “blasters”: _Babylon 5_ made a creditable effort to handle the distinction. Their energy weapons were PPGs–“phased plasma guns”, which fired magnetically encapsulated bursts of plasma. It makes sense for them to appear as discrete bolts of light, because the relatively slow-moving projectiles are made of superheated gas that emits light. (The reason they’re preferred over slug-throwers is that they’re much less likely to penetrate bulkheads or hulls–the plasma splashes on hard targets that a slug might punch a hole in.) They’re still made of unobtainium and powered by handwavium cells, but at least some thought went into them. ---
**Author:** ![Ethilrist](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/ethilrist/32/4604_2.png) [@Ethilrist](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ethilrist)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 6:08pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/29 "2014-10-22T18:08:23Z")
> [@Balance](#): > > On lasers versus “blasters”: _Babylon 5_ made a creditable effort to handle the distinction. Their energy weapons were PPGs–“phased plasma guns”, which fired magnetically encapsulated bursts of plasma. It makes sense for them to appear as discrete bolts of light, because the relatively slow-moving projectiles are made of superheated gas that emits light. (The reason they’re preferred over slug-throwers is that they’re much less likely to penetrate bulkheads or hulls–the plasma splashes on hard targets that a slug might punch a hole in.) > > They’re still made of unobtainium and powered by handwavium cells, but at least some thought went into them. I also loved that they had no stun setting. Stunning someone with a laser (Space 1999) never made a lot of sense to me. ---
**Author:** ![Grestarian](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/grestarian/32/3227_2.png) [@Grestarian](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Grestarian)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/30 "2014-10-22T21:22:11Z")
> [@Kamino\_Neko](#): > > Almost all of which are corrected. > > I’m honestly wondering if it’s a failed attempt at creating a meme. Oh, I certainly believe Mapcase and others; I also believed the book I was reading back in the 1970’s. As for citing it, sorry ChrisK but I was a good boy and returned it to the library on time and I no longer remember the title. I do remember that the section on the prospects of laser technology seemed to be a filler tacked onto an already thin book, but I don’t recall the subject matter at this point. It might have been something about pulsars, quasars, and lasers (and I was more interested in the first two at the time) but one must remember it was written for young teen readers so not all that detailed (and apparently inaccurate about the lasers). –G! ---
**Author:** ![beowulff](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/beowulff/32/542_2.png) [@beowulff](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/beowulff)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2014, 9:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/31 "2014-10-22T21:32:11Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > More like 24fps. 🙂 > > [Frame rate - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate) > > Wiki mentions old home movies were filmed at 16 or 18fps, but you can see them flicker. I think 20fps is around the flicker limit of human vision, and that’s why the film industry standardized at 24fps early on. Sorry, but it’s easy to see 60Hz flicker. Just look at LED christmas lights with your peripheral vision… Some people are more sensitive to it that others, and it’s MUCH easier to see it if you move your eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 2:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/32 "2014-10-23T02:25:04Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > More like 24fps. 🙂 > > [Frame rate - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate) > > Wiki mentions old home movies were filmed at 16 or 18fps, but you can see them flicker. I think 20fps is around the flicker limit of human vision, and that’s why the film industry standardized at 24fps early on. Films are shot at 24 fps, true, but they are projected at 48 or 72 fps (i.e., each frame is paused so that the light shines through it 2 or 3 times) [to reduce the perceptible flicker](http://vanillavideo.com/blog/2013/refresh-rates-explained-60hz-120hz-more). > [@](#): > > Like motion picture cameras, film projectors have a shutter because the film must advance whilst hidden. If the film were to advance while the image was projected, audiences would see the “smear” of the film moving. Unlike a motion picture camera, which uses a one-bladed shutter, a film projector uses (at the very least) a two-bladed shutter, which flashes each frame twice, resulting in a 48 hertz refresh rate. The film could advance with a one-bladed shutter, but the human eye can perceive slow flashes of light, which causes a flicker. So, to reduce flicker, the film is shown “faster” at 48 hertz, with each of the 24 frames flashed twice. In terms of film projection (rather than TV or digital), refresh rate is more commonly referred to as flicker rate; but it essentially means the same thing. > > Many film projectors have a three-bladed shutter, which flashes each frame three times, resulting in a 72 hertz refresh rate. These film projectors are more desirable as the higher refresh rate produces less flicker and allows for a brighter lamp, resulting in a brighter image. Since the advent of digital cinema, film projectors are almost entirely obsolete and replaced by digital projectors. Like TVs, digital projectors do not require a shutter to close the light source, since no film is advancing. > [@Grestarian](#): > > Oh, I certainly believe Mapcase and others; I also believed the book I was reading back in the 1970’s. As for citing it, sorry ChrisK but I was a good boy and returned it to the library on time and I no longer remember the title. I do remember that the section on the prospects of laser technology seemed to be a filler tacked onto an already thin book, but I don’t recall the subject matter at this point. It might have been something about pulsars, quasars, and lasers (and I was more interested in the first two at the time) but one must remember it was written for young teen readers so not all that detailed (and apparently inaccurate about the lasers). > > –G! Simplified or not, I can’t figure out what _ **sound** _ you could think is being emitted. ---
**Author:** ![TBG](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/c89c15/32.png) [@TBG](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/TBG)\ **Post date:** [October 23, 2014, 11:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/33 "2014-10-23T23:31:16Z")
> [@Trinopus](#): > > So…Han Solo, with his blaster, shouldn’t “point and shoot” but “slash and shoot,” firing with a kind of wrist motion to spread out the shot… (At least against unarmored targets. Against armor, you might want the entire duration of the burst to hit exactly the same spot, so the energy accumulates and drills through.) But blasters aren’t lasers. Kirk and Picard probably should be using their phasers that way, though, as those generally are beams rather than bursts (though there have been some exceptions). ---
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 4:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/34 "2014-10-24T16:24:50Z")
> [@Exapno\_Mapcase](#): > > Simplified or not, I can’t figure out what _ **sound** _ you could think is being emitted. Pew-pew-pew! ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 5:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/35 "2014-10-24T17:10:09Z")
> [@DrCube](#): > > More like 24fps. 🙂 > > [Frame rate - Wikipedia](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frame_rate) > > Wiki mentions old home movies were filmed at 16 or 18fps, but you can see them flicker. I think 20fps is around the flicker limit of human vision, and that’s why the film industry standardized at 24fps early on. Um, no. The 24fps standard was adopted with the introduction of sound; the sound equipment required that speed for fidelity (or what passed for it in those days). Silent films were not really standardized, but varied between 12 to 26 fps. Studios might have their own particular frame rate, but standardization was not easily achieved, since cameras were hand cranked (That’s one of the amazing things about Buster Keaton’s 1921 film “The Playhouse” – where he played the entire audience). Films may also have been projected at different rates, and the rates varied within a film. In any case, I’m surprised no one has hit upon the obvious answer to the question in the OP: They were shown as individual projectiles because it looked cool. No one gave the slightest thought to how it might look in reality; their job was to make it look impressive to the audience. ---
**Author:** ![CalMeacham](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/calmeacham/32/35_2.png) [@CalMeacham](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CalMeacham)\ **Post date:** [October 24, 2014, 5:52pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036/36 "2014-10-24T17:52:34Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Um, no. The 24fps standard was adopted with the introduction of sound; the sound equipment required that speed for fidelity (or what passed for it in those days). > > Silent films were not really standardized, but varied between 12 to 26 fps. Studios might have their own particular frame rate, but standardization was not easily achieved, since cameras were hand cranked (That’s one of the amazing things about Buster Keaton’s 1921 film “The Playhouse” – where he played the entire audience). Films may also have been projected at different rates, and the rates varied within a film. > > In any case, I’m surprised no one has hit upon the obvious answer to the question in the OP: They were shown as individual projectiles because it looked cool. No one gave the slightest thought to how it might look in reality; their job was to make it look impressive to the audience. I beg your pardon. Go back and look at my last paragraph in entry #8 [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-came-up-with-the-idea-that-lasers-are-invidual-projectiles/702036.md?page=1)