# Who can be credited w/ ending slavery **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [April 28, 2004, 10:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573 "2004-04-28T22:57:49Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Steve\_Wright](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/848f3c/32.png) [@Steve\_Wright](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Steve_Wright)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/21 "2004-04-29T13:04:57Z")
Worth noting, I think, that Britain passed laws prohibiting the slave _trade_ in 1807 (the driving force in the abolitionist movement being one William Wilberforce, who I think deserves a mention), and actively pursued initiatives to ban it in other countries from that date onwards … the 1833 date (26th July 1833) marks the end of the process, with the (admittedly long overdue) legal emancipation of all remaining slaves (i.e. sold into slavery _prior_ to 1807). Of course, slavery continues to be an issue in the world today … but it is, at least, _illegal_, pretty much universally. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/22 "2004-04-29T13:31:58Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > You know, this has got me thinking…after the europeans abolished slavery, what ever happened to the “now free” populations that should have existed afterwards? AFAIK, they essentially went on doing the same job for a crappy pay…I wouldn’t be sure for british colonies, but in french islands, there essentially weren’t any other activities beside plantations and processsing agricultural products (sugar\>rum), with the exception of fishing, so it’s not like they could have chosen to work for the industry or somesuch (And I doubt the conditions would have been better, anyway). Actually, plantations are _still_ a major activity in french west indies. And might still be owned by the descendants of the plantors, employing the descendants of the slaves. For a crappy pay. > [@](#): > > Also claroibscur- I think you meant France abolished slavery in **1794,** (not 1894) then reestablished it in 1802. 😃 Yes, of course. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/23 "2004-04-29T13:45:04Z")
> [@Steve Wright](#): > > Worth noting, I think, that Britain passed laws prohibiting the slave _trade_ in 1807 Slave trade was condemned by the congress of Vienna ( which sorted out all sort of european issues following the fall of Napoleon with the intent of stabilizing the situation in Europe) in 1815. Most european countries ablolished slave trade at this moment ( Austria, France, Portugal, Russia, Sweden…). It was assimilated to piracy. British and French ships were allowed to seize ships transporting slaves. Spain officially abolished it in 1817, but it didn’t actually enforce it. I just read also that Canada abolished it in 1803 (before the UK which, is surprising. I wouldn’t have thought that Canada could have decided this by itself) and the USA in 1807. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 1:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/24 "2004-04-29T13:54:42Z")
Thinking twice, what was this 1807 abolition of slave trade in the US? Since slaves, AFAIK, could still be bought/sold long after this date in the US, does it mean what they couldn’t be _imported_ anymore? ---
**Author:** ![stuyguy](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/ec9cab/32.png) [@stuyguy](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/stuyguy)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 2:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/25 "2004-04-29T14:23:08Z")
I know the OP asked about ending slavery in the world, but I want to get on my hijack soapbox and talk about ending slavery in the US for a sec. The civil rights movement, which should naturally include the movement to end slavery, owes a huge debt of gratitude to the white abolitionists who lobbied long and hard on behalf of the African slaves. So many of these persistant crusaders languish in obscurity (… other than John Brown, can the average college student name one?..), yet the current crop of civil rights celebraters (celebrants?) are loathe to acknowledge or honor them. The civil rights movement is “owned” by African Americans who seem to think it dilutes the integrity of their cause to honor the whites who were the pioneers of their cause. ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/26 "2004-04-29T14:39:18Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > Thinking twice, what was this 1807 abolition of slave trade in the US? Since slaves, AFAIK, could still be bought/sold long after this date in the US, does it mean what they couldn’t be _imported_ anymore? Yeah. The US didn’t end slavery until after the Civil War - although many states had done so already. And while the bill to end the slave trade was signed in 1807, it didn’t go into effect until 1808, which was the earliest it could be banned due to a clause in the Constitution. Anyway, Vermont banned slavery in 1777, Pennsylvania in 1780, Massachusetts and New Hampshire in 1783, Connecticut and Rhode Island in 1784, New York in 1799 and New Jersey in 1804. In 1787, Congress banned slavery in the Northwest Territory (what would become Ohio, Indiana, Illinois, Michigan and Wisconsin). Virginia almost banned it in 1831 after a slave revolt, but couldn’t quite muster the votes. ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/27 "2004-04-29T15:20:56Z")
> [@Neurotik](#): > > Yeah. The US didn’t end slavery until after the Civil War - although many states had done so already. And while the bill to end the slave trade was signed in 1807, it didn’t go into effect until 1808, which was the earliest it could be banned due to a clause in the Constitution. > . This disn’t exactly answer my question : what was forbidden by this bill, exactly? I understand it wasn’t slave trade within the US. So, was it the importation of slaves, as I suspect? Or was it more general? Could a US ship seize a foreign ship transporting slaves in interneational waters, for instance? ---
**Author:** ![Padmaraga](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/f07891/32.png) [@Padmaraga](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padmaraga)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/28 "2004-04-29T15:33:52Z")
I believe the movie to which **Starguard** refers is _Jefferson in Paris_, starring Nick Nolte as Jefferson. It sounds to me as if **Starguard** is under the impression that this movie was a documentary. Repeat after me, **Starguard** : It’s only _Hollywood_. P.S. Thanks for the big belly laugh with that line about the IRS - good thing no one else was in the office yet! ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 3:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/29 "2004-04-29T15:57:31Z")
[The Great Republic by the Master Historians (Vol 3)](http://www.publicbookshelf.com/public_html/The_Great_Republic_By_the_Master_Historians_Vol_III/blackamer_be.html) > [@](#): > > On January 1, 1808, the first day on which Congress had a right to act upon it, a bill forbidding the importation of slaves was passed unanimously. Yet its effect was not prohibitory, since the smuggling of slaves immediately took the place of their open importation. Efforts were made to break up this illicit trade, but with little effect, it being estimated by southern members that from thirteen thousand to fifteen thousand slaves were annually smuggled into the country. In 1819 Congress declared the slave-trade to be piracy, though none of its participants seem to have been condemned as pirates. ---
**Author:** ![carterba](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/85e7bf/32.png) [@carterba](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/carterba)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 4:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/30 "2004-04-29T16:29:38Z")
Jefferson used anti-slavery rhetoric on occasion, but he kept slaves, which seems more than a bit hypocritical. The abolitionists of the day were Hamilton, Aaron Burr, and other northerners, not Jefferson and the Virginians. IIRC, Washington, who freed his slaves in his will, was the only Virginian who actually acted in an anti-slavery manner. Also, IIRC, the DNA evidence for the Jefferson-Hemmings relationship only shows that someone descended from Jefferson’s grandfather (or father; can’t remember exactly) was involved. It could just as easily be his brother’s DNA, and in fact he had a brother who was known to hang around the slave quarters. ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 4:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/31 "2004-04-29T16:44:31Z")
Even before slavery was abolished in Britain, wasn’t there case law forbidding it on the British Isles itself? ---
**Author:** ![Captain\_Amazing](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/6de8d8/32.png) [@Captain\_Amazing](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Captain_Amazing)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 4:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/32 "2004-04-29T16:54:25Z")
And I just answered my own question. It was the Sommersett case, in 1772. Lord Mansfield wrote, in his opinion (about James Sommersett, a slave from Virginia who escaped to London. His master followed him there and sued for his return, > [@](#): > > The only question before us is, whether the cause on the return is sufficient? If it is, the negro must be remanded; if it is not, he must be discharged. Accordingly, the return states, that the slave departed and refused to serve; whereupon he was kept, to be sold abroad. So high an act of dominion must be recognized by the law of the country where it is used. The power of a master over his slave has been extremely different, in different countries. The state of slavery is of such a nature, that it is incapable of being introduced on any reasons, moral or political, but only by positive law, which preserves its force long after the reasons, occasion, and time itself from whence it was created, is erased from memory. It is so odious, that nothing can be suffered to support it, but positive law. Whatever inconveniences, therefore, may follow from the decision, I cannot say this case is allowed or approved by the law of England; and therefore the black must be discharged. ---
**Author:** ![bonzer](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/45deac/32.png) [@bonzer](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bonzer)\ **Post date:** [April 29, 2004, 11:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/33 "2004-04-29T23:12:00Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > I’ve been searching for a site to quote my theory, but I do believe that when Thomas Jefferson wrote the declaration of Independence, the first statement he made in it was that **“all men are created free and equal”**. I believe that when he wrote this, many of his political rivals stated that Sally Hemmings had a substantial amount of influence over both this and many more of the decisions that he made while in office. Over and above **Wendell Wagner** ’s cogent observations, there’s one massively obvious problem with this particular statement about the Declaration of Independence: [Sally Hemmings was born is 1773](http://www.ibiblio.org/samneill/films/shtimeline.txt) and so was only a small child in 1776. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 5:57am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/34 "2004-04-30T05:57:08Z")
> [@clairobscur](#): > > I just read also that Canada abolished it in 1803 (before the UK which, is surprising. I wouldn’t have thought that Canada could have decided this by itself) Depends exactly what part of the slave trade you’re referring to. British colonies had considerable freedom to legislate for themselves, provided the law didn’t conflict with an imperial statute. The first Legislature of Upper Canada, meeting in 1793, passed a statute which prohibited the importation of slaves into Upper Canada, and provided for gradual emancipation: _An Act to prevent the further introduction of Slaves, and to limt the term of Contracts for servitude within the Province_, S.U.C. 1793, 33 Geo. III, c. VII. (Since there was no political unit called “Canada” in 1803, I’m not sure what action in 1803 that you’re meaning - could you provide a bit more detail?) ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/35 "2004-04-30T06:20:09Z")
> [@Padmaraga](#): > > I believe the movie to which **Starguard** refers is _Jefferson in Paris_, starring Nick Nolte as Jefferson. It sounds to me as if **Starguard** is under the impression that this movie was a documentary. > > Repeat after me, **Starguard** : It’s only _Hollywood_. > > P.S. Thanks for the big belly laugh with that line about the IRS - good thing no one else was in the office yet! [Here](http://www.tracksounds.com/reviews/quickclick/reviews/qcsallyhemmings.htm) is the reference to the movie I was talking about. (and I humbly admit that \*\* I was wrong about the IRS\*\*. It’s been a **VERY** long time since I’ve done any research in this area. I also mentioned in my origional statements that my memory was **VERY** spotted on this topic, and I strongly invite **ANYONE** who is more knowlegeable about this topic to offer any and all factual corrections that feel necessary) ---
**Author:** ![Cerowyn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/82dd89/32.png) [@Cerowyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cerowyn)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/36 "2004-04-30T07:32:06Z")
> [@Starguard](#): > > [Here](http://www.tracksounds.com/reviews/quickclick/reviews/qcsallyhemmings.htm) is the reference to the movie I was talking about. You realize that that link is about the _soundtrack_ of the TV show, right? The [IMDB page](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206951/) for that mini-series has the following summary: > [@](#): > > An interpretation of the historical relationship between President Thomas Jefferson and his slave Sally Hemings, this work argues that the two had a long-term affair (and children) and that the relationship was, in some degree, based on love. ---
**Author:** ![Starguard](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Starguard](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Starguard)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 8:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/37 "2004-04-30T08:17:14Z")
> [@Cerowyn](#): > > You realize that that link is about the _soundtrack_ of the TV show, right? The [IMDB page](http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0206951/) for that mini-series has the following summary: Yea I know :o Unfortunately it was this movie that got me interested in this topic to begin with. I was a few years ago when I saw this movie, (and since then I’ve done a little research on it here and there), but over time I’ve forgotten many of the titles and authors that I would like to use as references to previous quotes I made. _I’m still beating my head against the wall trying to remember where I read about the speech to congress she was supposed to have made._ From the little digging around I’ve done since this topic was posted here, I’ve already reached the conclusion that there are many variations to the life of our third president from many different people all with different and conflicting views. - Some have tried using scientific data or DNA testing to either prove or disprove exactly how many children Thomas Jefferson had from Sally Hemmings (some have stated that they had no children at all). \*Others view this entire topic as an embarrasment to the Government and have tried time and time again to both deny (and prove) that the entire event never even happened. - Some have tried to romanticise his relations with her in an attempt to win the hearts of the American Public ( Sort of like the way Shaksephere did with Cleopatra and Mark Anthony) The list goes on and on. I’m afraid that the real and brutal truth can (and will) only be known to the U.S. Government, and for reasons unknown to me, I don’t think that they will ever share it with us. ☹ ---
**Author:** ![clairobscur](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/839c29/32.png) [@clairobscur](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/clairobscur)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 9:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/38 "2004-04-30T09:46:27Z")
> [@Northern Piper](#): > > The first Legislature of Upper Canada, meeting in 1793, passed a statute which prohibited the importation of slaves into Upper Canada, and provided for gradual emancipation: _An Act to prevent the further introduction of Slaves, and to limt the term of Contracts for servitude within the Province_, S.U.C. 1793, 33 Geo. III, c. VII. > > (Since there was no political unit called “Canada” in 1803, I’m not sure what action in 1803 that you’re meaning - could you provide a bit more detail?) It’s the one you’re refering to. Adopted in 1793, with a 10 years delay for its implementation. ---
**Author:** ![Northern\_Piper](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/northern_piper/32/5304_2.png) [@Northern\_Piper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Northern_Piper)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 1:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/39 "2004-04-30T13:34:50Z")
I’ve read through the Act - I don’t see any ten year delay. Section I: prohibits introduction of new slaves into Upper Canada “from and after the passing of this Act” i.e. - immediately upon royal assent; also prohibited voluntary contracts of servitude for longer than 9 years; Section II: provides that nothing in the Act libertates any person from servitude, if lawfully purchased prior to the passing of the Act; Section III: provides that immediately “from and after the passing of this Act” every child born of a slave woman shall be free upon reaching the age of 25 years; Section IV: provides right of such child to apply to a Justice of the Peace upon reaching 25, if the mother’s owner tries to detain the child; Section V: provides that upon freeing a child at age 25, the former owner shall give security to the parish that the child shall not be chargeable upon the poor rolls of the parish. I don’t see anything that delays the coming into force? ---
**Author:** ![Neurotik](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/91b2a8/32.png) [@Neurotik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Neurotik)\ **Post date:** [April 30, 2004, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573/40 "2004-04-30T14:24:23Z")
[QUOTE=Starguard] \*I’m still beating my head against the wall trying to remember where I read about the speech to congress she was supposed to have made.\*Not to be snarky, but maybe nowhere? You may have it confused with something else. Sally Hemmings never made any speech that I know of. > [@](#): > > - Some have tried using scientific data or DNA testing to either prove or disprove exactly how many children Thomas Jefferson had from Sally Hemmings (some have stated that they had no children at all). Again, I’m pretty sure it’s been established that there was an affair and they did have children together. > [@](#): > > \*Others view this entire topic as an embarrasment to the Government and have tried time and time again to both deny (and prove) that the entire event never even happened. Cite? As near as I can tell the US government could not possibly care less. The only people making a stink denying it are the legitimate ancestors of Jefferson. > [@](#): > > - Some have tried to romanticise his relations with her in an attempt to win the hearts of the American Public ( Sort of like the way Shaksephere did with Cleopatra and Mark Anthony) Very true. > [@](#): > > The list goes on and on. I’m afraid that the real and brutal truth can (and will) only be known to the U.S. Government, and for reasons unknown to me, I don’t think that they will ever share it with us. ☹ So what brand of tin foil do you use? What special information, exactly, do you think the US possesses? What reason, do you think, they would cover this up? The answers to both questions are none. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-be-credited-w-ending-slavery/242573.md?page=3)