# Who can charge, investigate, arrest and sentence a sitting president **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [November 21, 2016, 3:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625 "2016-11-21T03:06:05Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 7\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![DinoR](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dinor/32/2821_2.png) [@DinoR](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DinoR)\ **Post date:** [November 21, 2016, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625/21 "2016-11-21T22:28:25Z")
> [@Bricker](#): > > This particular act may be a violation of federal law – I say this to distinguish it from a war crime under international law. Even for things designated as war crimes under international law, the [International Criminal Court](http://legal.un.org/icc/statute/iccq&a.htm) still gives priority to national justice systems. > [@](#): > > National courts will continue to have priority in investigating and prosecuting crimes within their jurisdiction. Under the principle of complementarity, the International Criminal Court will act only when national courts are unable or unwilling to exercise jurisdiction. If a national court is willing and able to exercise jurisdiction, the International Criminal Court cannot intervene and no nationals of that State can be brought before it except in cases referred to it by the United Nations Security Council acting under Chapter VII of the UN Charter. Since the US isn’t one of the currently dwindling number of signatories, this is a hypothetical. If we were, it would still come back to the question in the OP first. ---
**Author:** ![Isilder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/i/cc9497/32.png) [@Isilder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Isilder)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 11:14am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625/22 "2016-11-22T11:14:13Z")
> [@DinoR](#): > > Even for things designated as war crimes under international law, the [International Criminal Court](http://legal.un.org/icc/statute/iccq&a.htm) still gives priority to national justice systems. I think the priority is that if the national system prosecutes seriously THEN the ICC won’t. Its not that the national system can be used to protect anyone. But I think waterboarding may be a constitution issue… it happened before only because of secrecy and not because it was legal. If Trump requires tortue… he can’t since its not constitutional, no matter what law or decree is made… it will always be against the constitution. ---
**Author:** ![bob\_2](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bob_2/32/3341_2.png) [@bob\_2](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/bob_2)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 11:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625/23 "2016-11-22T11:59:01Z")
After reading this thread, it looks to me that the constitution never really considered a situation where the POTUS simply disregards convention, and maybe even the law. We already see, reported here, cases where the president elect is behaving badly: publically promoting an individual as British Ambassador, and [allegedly] promoting his own and his family’s commercial interests in Argentina, Japan and India. ---
**Author:** ![md2000](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/73ab20/32.png) [@md2000](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/md2000)\ **Post date:** [November 22, 2016, 7:04pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625/24 "2016-11-22T19:04:04Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > I think the priority is that if the national system prosecutes seriously THEN the ICC won’t. > > Its not that the national system can be used to protect anyone. > But I think waterboarding may be a constitution issue… it happened before only because of secrecy and not because it was legal. If Trump requires tortue… he can’t since its not constitutional, no matter what law or decree is made… it will always be against the constitution. Originally, the government sanctioned it with legal opinions that said waterboarding etc. was ok - i.e. did not violate the laws and treaties. I presume since the change of executive, there have been opinions over the last 8 years that specifically state what actions are not ok (which supercede previous ones). In light of those opinions, it would be difficult to re-opinionate that it is once again Ok, I would think - and certainly someone thinking of doing it would have to understand that whether the top dog is prosecuted or not, the people down the line involved can be. Are non-signatories to the ICC immune from prosecution? I was under the impression that the were not, that the problem was that unless they signed, a country would not be obliged to deliver a person to the court; but if said person were to wander into a country that was a signatory, they would end up in Brussels. This was the issue kicked around about CIA torture and rendition personnel, and possibly Israeli defense personnel, if they decided to vacation in Europe. ---
**Author:** ![Bricker](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/977dab/32.png) [@Bricker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Bricker)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 1:07am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625/25 "2016-11-23T01:07:04Z")
> [@Isilder](#): > > If Trump requires tortue… he can’t since its not constitutional, no matter what law or decree is made. Um… This is one of those issues where there is a factual insight to be made, one that would fight ignorance, but in SDMB practice runs the strong risk of people declaring indignantly, “So, you’re in favor of torture, then!” But what the hey. The Eighth Amendment’s ban of “cruel and unusual” punishment applies only to punishments inflicted by the criminal process. Ingraham v. Wright. Are you thinking of some other constitutional provision? ---
**Author:** ![alphaboi867](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/alphaboi867/32/3898_2.png) [@alphaboi867](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/alphaboi867)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625/26 "2016-11-23T04:02:10Z")
> [@Chronos](#): > > …The federal police all work for him, and so he could order them not to arrest him, and he could also pardon himself for any federal crime. Congress’s impeachment power gets around both of these problems, the first by virtue of being in a different branch of government, and the second because the Constitution specifically says that impeachment can’t be pardoned… That only means that the President can’t use the power of pardon to prevent his impeachment (& subsequent removal from office); he can still pardon himself before the Senate votes to remove him office & prevent himself from ever being charged in criminal court for any federal crimes he committed before signing the pardon. This would include any offences under DC law (which would be considered state crimes in the rest of the country). Same deal if for any offences he commits in the territories like Guam or Puerto Rico. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [November 23, 2016, 12:15pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625/27 "2016-11-23T12:15:26Z")
There is at least one precedent: U.S. Grant was arrested for reckless driving a team of horses while president. He was taken to the police station and paid a fine. The arrest was made by a regular DC policeman. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-can-charge-investigate-arrest-and-sentence-a-sitting-president/772625.md?page=1)