# Who cares to debate the events of 9/11/2001 based upon the laws of physics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861 "2017-10-14T21:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 16
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/301 "2017-10-15T19:17:28Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > so you personally are content to make sport of a matter that is of not only national interest but really PLANET EARTH / HUMANITY interest. > > the forces of EVIL have gained control over the greatest propaganda machine ever invented and they are using it to screw the masses, are you aware of the fact that the mainstream media is broadcasting what they do NOT because they want you to be informed, but in an effort to promote an agenda, that is to subjugate the masses. > > after 9/11/2001, the powers that be, created TSA, and the public was convinced that negating the CONSTITUTION at the airport was a good idea. Do YOU believe that negating the CONSTITUTION in any place or time, is a good idea? > > 9/11/2001 was used as an excuse for all sorts of bad policy. > and the fact that it can be proven beyond any doubt that the media lied, > only compounds the madness. > > If you have nothing better to do > than to make sport of a serious issue, then that is YOUR business. You know, you still haven’t answered my question as to what _you_ think happened on 9/11. At this point I’m not convinced I care to know. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/302 "2017-10-15T19:17:45Z")
> [@DWMarch](#): > > So there’s this conspiracy right? And our august guest has alluded to who is behind it all. Thus far we’ve got vague references to the Military-Industrial complex and of course, Jews. There wasn’t enough war going on back in 2001 so these groups got together to start the biggest false flag operation in history. They violated the laws of physics with the entire world watching, convinced the vast majority of the public that someone and something else entirely were responsible and they made hundreds of people disappear that day. Is that about right? > > And for some reason the only people in the world who aren’t in on this conspiracy are people who bear a strong resemblance to the mentally unbalanced. They rant and rave and foam at the mouth because we the sheeple just won’t accept the truth. So they have to get progressively ruder and cruder with their arguments because that’s how you win an argument with people who reject the solid logical reasoning they always present. “mentally unbalanced” Right, Please note [Patriotsquestion911.com](http://Patriotsquestion911.com) do you consider thousands of professionals ( see AE911TRUTH ) to all be “mentally unbalanced” ? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/303 "2017-10-15T19:19:39Z")
[quote=“Jay\_Jay, post:295, topic:798861”] Yes, jet fuel can melt steel, OK however, in order to produce the result as observed, **the fire would have to melt or weaken steel in a uniform manner,** otherwise we would see something quite different. oh yea, reference for any chem majors out there [/QUOTE] Bolding mine. That is simply not true. Your video starts off with failure in assuming the Kerosene was the only flammable in the impact area. Sorry kid, but no. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/304 "2017-10-15T19:25:26Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > “mentally unbalanced” Right, Please note > [Patriotsquestion911.com](http://Patriotsquestion911.com) Sham sites do not impress me, > [@](#): > > do you consider thousands of professionals ( see AE911TRUTH ) > to all be “mentally unbalanced” ? I already linked to the ISF thread where the AE911 talent pool is shown tp be quite shallow and outnumbered. FOr the record, I don’t think Richard Gage is unbalanced, but he is a con-artist. ---
**Author:** ![Darren\_Garrison](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/darren_garrison/32/92_2.png) [@Darren\_Garrison](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Darren_Garrison)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:25pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/305 "2017-10-15T19:25:28Z")
Jews behind it all? Please! Isn’t it obvious? Seven \*fifty \*sevens, seven _sixty_ sevens-- obviously, thus was all engineered by [seven\* zark \*seven!](http://www.google.com/search?q=7+zark+7&btnG=) When are you going to realize that our lives are being manipulated by cheesy filler from bowdlerized 1970s anime! ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/306 "2017-10-15T19:31:42Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > so you personally are content to make sport of a matter that is of not only national interest but really PLANET EARTH / HUMANITY interest. > > the forces of EVIL have gained control over the greatest propaganda machine ever invented and they are using it to screw the masses, are you aware of the fact that the mainstream media is broadcasting what they do NOT because they want you to be informed, but in an effort to promote an agenda, that is to subjugate the masses. > > after 9/11/2001, the powers that be, created TSA, and the public was convinced that negating the CONSTITUTION at the airport was a good idea. Do YOU believe that negating the CONSTITUTION in any place or time, is a good idea? > > 9/11/2001 was used as an excuse for all sorts of bad policy. > and the fact that it can be proven beyond any doubt that the media lied, > only compounds the madness. > > If you have nothing better to do > than to make sport of a serious issue, then that is YOUR business. And so your solution was to invent crazy theories that have no basis in reality and complain using them on the internet. Way to go, Ace. You sure showed them forces of EVIL. ---
**Author:** ![crowmanyclouds](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/crowmanyclouds/32/19884_2.png) [@crowmanyclouds](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/crowmanyclouds)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/307 "2017-10-15T19:38:50Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > {…} after 9/11/2001, the powers that be, created TSA, and the public was convinced that negating the CONSTITUTION at the airport was a good idea. Do YOU believe that negating the CONSTITUTION in any place or time, is a good idea? {…} I believe it’ll turn out that your understanding of Constitutional law is worse than your understanding of physics! ☹ CMC fnord! ---
**Author:** ![Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/439d5e/32.png) [@Some\_Call\_Me.Tim](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Some_Call_Me.Tim)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:46pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/308 "2017-10-15T19:46:35Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > so you personally are content to make sport of a matter that is of not only national interest but really PLANET EARTH / HUMANITY interest. The only person on this thread who is making sport of a serious issue that actually happened, in which thousands of people died, is you. The rest of us are making sport of silly nonsense that never actually happened, which is an entirely appropriate response to nonsense. If you had instead wanted to discuss governmental responses to 9/11, you might have started a decent thread- but that wasn’t what you did. ---
**Author:** ![Trinopus](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/2bfe46/32.png) [@Trinopus](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trinopus)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/309 "2017-10-15T19:47:17Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > Please be specific, what part of what I have said is inaccurate or incomplete > don’t just wave it all off, tell me details as to what you believe is wrong with what I present. You said the energy increases “exponentially” with speed, which is not correct. 1/2 mv^2 is not an exponential equation. You’ve also tried to cast doubt on photographic evidence. That’s pretty odd; why should we doubt what we can plainly see? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/310 "2017-10-15T19:47:22Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > “mentally unbalanced” Right, Please note > [Patriotsquestion911.com](http://Patriotsquestion911.com) > > do you consider thousands of professionals ( see AE911TRUTH ) > to all be “mentally unbalanced” ? What do you think actually happened? ---
**Author:** ![eschereal](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/eschereal/32/18939_2.png) [@eschereal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/eschereal)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/311 "2017-10-15T19:47:31Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > in addition to my criticism of the paper, > Please do consider the fact that upon striking the wall, the aircraft would receive a jolt, > and as a consequence of said jolt, who is to speculate as to exactly what damage would have been the result of this jolt > but it is likely to have compromised the structural integrity so as to crack the fuselage. and once compromised, the airliner would crush itself against the wall without further penetration. Consider, though, that the wings are kind of not affected by the structural integrity of the fuselage. The wings were very heavy, including several thousand pounds of fuel and two massive engines. Even if the fuselage crumpled up against the supposedly impermeable wall (which was really not designed to handle high, concentrated facial loads), the mass of the wing section would have easily carried it forward into the building. Note, also, that the wing-shaped gash in the building is shallower toward where the wingtips would have hit. This seems to me consistent with what would be expected. > [@](#): > > to address the argument about HOLLOW POINT projectiles, given that the nose of the airliner was hollow > the structural stress upon it given the collision with the skyscraper wall, would be sufficient to deform > that is ( mushroom ) said structure … But is this correct? The nose of many jetliners is a hollow space filled with avionics (like radar). To suggest that it would behave like a hollow-point bullet seems specious at best. ---
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/312 "2017-10-15T19:50:06Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > NO the B-25 did NOT penetrate “like a hot knife through butter” > it STOPPED before the entire aircraft entered the building. > there is a HUGE difference between coming to a full stop > and having the airliner continue on to completely disappear inside. > the airliner was 178 ft long and even if one claims the shorter version was used > it was at least 150 ft long. So then WHY should the B-25 incident be a valid example of how “FLT175” penetrated completely? Lets look at the facts B-25 max weight takeoff weight is 35,000 lbs max speed is 272 mph cruise speed is 230 mph F=M\*A 35,000 x 272 mph =\*\* 9,520,000 \*\* B-767 max takeoff weight is 142,882 lbs or over 4 times the weight of a B-25 max speed is 486 knots or 559 mph max fuel load 16,700 usg times 6.8 (lbs/g) or 113,560 lbs which is over 3 times the weight of a B-25 F=M\*A 142,882 x 559 = \*\*79,871,038 \*\*which is over 8 times the kinetic energy of the B-25 The Empire State building was an old design that distributed the weight on steel columns spaced evenly across the bulding’s footprint. They used something like concrete on the beams as fire retardant. The WTC design took the evenly spaced columns and concentrated them on one set of outer walls and one set of inner walls. It was built like a tube inside a tube and it provide much more open space inside. They used a spray-on fibrous fire retardant on the beams. It blew off on impact. Originally the engineers thought the outer walls gave way because of structural failure due to heat. When they examined the wreckage they found that the bolts holding the floor joists to the walls were intact and that the floor joists sagged under the prolonged fire and thus pulled the outer walls inward causing them to fail under the load of the weight above. FACTS: 4 widebody aircraft full of people (and fuel) were hijacked. 2 of them hit the WTC buildings and 1 hit the Pentagon. The WTC buildings failed at point of impact. there is physical evidence, video evidence and eye witness accounts for all of this. As to your theory that the planes would disintegrate entirely upon impact that doesn’t make any sense at all. The buildings were not made of solid steel. they were not made of solid concrete. [Here is what a 2x4 does to concrete](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/9a/78/45/9a784545079d31d71652cb73bb5a5fd1--drainage-tornado.jpg) in a tornado which is moving much slower than an airliner. [Here is an aluminum gutter all the way through a tree.](https://i.imgur.com/qX1OezR.jpg). By your reasoning they should have crumpled upon impact. Aircraft of that size have tremendous chunks of metal in them such as engine shafts, wheel assemblies and the structures that deal with the weights of these items. At over 500 mph that’s a tremendous amount of energy that is tranmitted in to an object. Despite the visual evidence that the aircraft created large holes in the buildings and this was the point of failure that led to their collapse, you have chosen to believe explosives were involved and that the planes were driven into the exact spot of failure. ---
**Author:** ![samclem](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/a9a28c/32.png) [@samclem](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/samclem)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/313 "2017-10-15T19:50:25Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > so you personally are content to make sport of a matter that is of not only national interest but really PLANET EARTH / HUMANITY interest. > > the forces of EVIL have gained control over the greatest propaganda machine ever invented and they are using it to screw the masses, are you aware of the fact that the mainstream media is broadcasting what they do NOT because they want you to be informed, but in an effort to promote an agenda, that is to subjugate the masses. > > after 9/11/2001, the powers that be, created TSA, and the public was convinced that negating the CONSTITUTION at the airport was a good idea. Do YOU believe that negating the CONSTITUTION in any place or time, is a good idea? > > 9/11/2001 was used as an excuse for all sorts of bad policy. > and the fact that it can be proven beyond any doubt that the media lied, > only compounds the madness. > > If you have nothing better to do > than to make sport of a serious issue, then that is YOUR business. Yeah, I’ve read your blog posts bringing these things up. You need to work a bit harder on your assertion that \*\* the fact that it can be proven beyond any doubt that the media lied\*\* aspect. You might have more luck than your attempts to use math, physics, and science in general. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/314 "2017-10-15T19:53:55Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > You know, you still haven’t answered my question as to what _you_ think happened on 9/11. At this point I’m not convinced I care to know. You haven’t been reading well I do NOT propose to tell “what happened” I am explaining why I KNOW what didn’t happen and therefore the knowledge that the media lied about what they say happened. is this not sufficient to cause AMERICA to be MAD AS HELL? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/315 "2017-10-15T19:56:05Z")
> [@Magiver](#): > > Lets look at the facts > > B-25 > max weight takeoff weight is 35,000 lbs > max speed is 272 mph > cruise speed is 230 mph > \*\*F=M\*A 35,000 x 272 mph **=** 9,520,000 \*\* > > … > > **F=M\*A** 142,882 x 559 = 79,871,038 which is over **8 times the kinetic energy** of the B-25 (Bolding Mine) Uh, Magiver? You’re not using the right formula here. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:57pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/316 "2017-10-15T19:57:01Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > You haven’t been reading well > I do NOT propose to tell “what happened” > I am explaining why I KNOW what didn’t happen and > therefore the knowledge that the media lied about what they say happened. > is this not sufficient to cause AMERICA to be MAD AS HELL? Why should America be “MAD AS HELL” about assertions you make that have already be proven time and time again to be false? TIRED AS HELL? Maybe. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/317 "2017-10-15T19:58:02Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > You haven’t been reading well > I do NOT propose to tell “what happened” > I am explaining why I KNOW what didn’t happen and > therefore the knowledge that the media lied about what they say happened. > is this not sufficient to cause AMERICA to be MAD AS HELL? So, what DO you think actually happened? ---
**Author:** ![DWMarch](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/dwmarch/32/1010_2.png) [@DWMarch](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DWMarch)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/318 "2017-10-15T19:59:57Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > “mentally unbalanced” Right, Please note > [Patriotsquestion911.com](http://Patriotsquestion911.com) > > do you consider thousands of professionals ( see AE911TRUTH ) > to all be “mentally unbalanced” ? Yes, absolutely. It manifests in the way they argue. Picture having someone standing in front of you and trying to tell you THE TRUTH about something. It doesn’t have to be 9/11. It could be anything. Coke versus Pepsi, dangers of aspartame, best place to get a haircut, Beatles versus Elvis, whatever. And the person who knows THE TRUTH is standing in front of you repeating the same things over and over again and getting progressively more rude about when you’re not jumping onboard their truth train. How do you feel about that person? Would you continue to try to talk to them and bring them around to your version of the truth (or let them try to convince you of theirs provided they can come up with a better argument) or would you tell them to go away? And what would you think about that person after? 9/11 Truthers come in here thinking that all they have to do is point out that one fatal flaw and everyone is going to go “I see! It’s been a lie all along but you have saved me!” They’re always disappointed when they come in with that one fiery piece of unassailable truth and the crowd here just dismisses it out of hand. They never have anything beyond a single argument and when that argument fails they change the subject. The people here are not teetering on the brink of being convinced that it’s all a big lie. There has to be an actual argument with actual evidence presented to even begin to impress this crowd and even if that was being presented, it would still be torn apart. But the Truthers never get that far. They just fixate on that one thing that the sheeple refuse to understand. And people who do that do not understand people. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/319 "2017-10-15T19:59:57Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Bolding mine. > > That is simply not true. > > Your video starts off with failure in assuming the Kerosene was the only flammable in the impact area. Sorry kid, but no. So how was it arranged that the various fuel sources in the building and note that standard office contents are not considered fuel sources because of UL fire rating of standard office stuff like chairs & desks & cubicles … however how was it arranged that the heating of the steel would be uniform in its distribution of fire, because if the heating was asymmetrical, the collapse event would look much different than was was shown on TV. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/320 "2017-10-15T20:00:05Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > You haven’t been reading well > I do NOT propose to tell “what happened” Of course you won’t. CTers almost never do. To do so would show that their idea has a million laughable flaws in it. > [@](#): > > I am explaining why I KNOW what didn’t happen and You ‘KNOW’ on the flimsiest of reasoning. That is terrifying. The 911 hijackers ‘KNEW’ they were going to be rewarded in the afterlife for their massacre. > [@](#): > > therefore the knowledge that the media lied about what they say happened. - citation needed\* > [@](#): > > is this not sufficient to cause AMERICA to be MAD AS HELL? No, because all you have produced is a laughable pile of pathetic conspiracy clownshoes claims. You have failed utterly to defend the assertions you have made and your comparisons are getting beyond the double facepalm level. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=15) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=17)