# Who cares to debate the events of 9/11/2001 based upon the laws of physics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861 "2017-10-14T21:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 17
**Author:** ![Magiver](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/4491bb/32.png) [@Magiver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Magiver)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/321 "2017-10-15T20:01:57Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > You haven’t been reading well > I do NOT propose to tell “what happened” > I am explaining why I KNOW what didn’t happen and > therefore the knowledge that the media lied about what they say happened. > is this not sufficient to cause AMERICA to be MAD AS HELL? there’s a difference between stating a goofy theory and explaining something. You haven’t explained what you “know” didn’t happen. Your belief that aircraft disintegrate entirely upon impact is flat wrong. I’ve shown you a what a much flimsier piece of aluminum can do at much slower speeds. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/322 "2017-10-15T20:02:42Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > So how was it arranged that the various fuel sources in the building > and note that standard office contents are not considered fuel sources because of UL fire rating of standard office stuff like chairs & desks & cubicles UL rating means that things like dropped cigarette ashes, matches and other light flammables do not cause the items to catch fire. Throw a burning wall of fuel at these things and most will burn. > [@](#): > > … however how was it arranged that the heating of the steel would be uniform in its distribution of fire, because if the heating was asymmetrical, the collapse event would look much different than was was shown on TV. No, it was not. Do tell us what it should have look like. Show your work. ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/323 "2017-10-15T20:05:31Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > so you personally are content to make sport of a matter that is of not only national interest but really PLANET EARTH / HUMANITY interest. > > the forces of EVIL have gained control over the greatest propaganda machine ever invented and they are using it to screw the masses, are you aware of the fact that the mainstream media is broadcasting what they do NOT because they want you to be informed, but in an effort to promote an agenda, that is to subjugate the masses. > > after 9/11/2001, the powers that be, created TSA, and the public was convinced that negating the CONSTITUTION at the airport was a good idea. Do YOU believe that negating the CONSTITUTION in any place or time, is a good idea? > > 9/11/2001 was used as an excuse for all sorts of bad policy. > and the fact that it can be proven beyond any doubt that the media lied, > only compounds the madness. > > If you have nothing better to do > than to make sport of a serious issue, then that is YOUR business. We’re making sport of you. _You_ are not a serious issue. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/324 "2017-10-15T20:06:37Z")
Wait, I think he’s arguing that flying a huge airplane into the side of a skyscraper built decades ago would show minimal damage? That the plane should have disintegrated against its side? Wow. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/325 "2017-10-15T20:10:03Z")
This is NOT a “Coke vs Pepsi” argument this is bigger than even a matter of national security this issue is pivotal to how humanity survives the next few decades. there is a VERY serious problem here in that I have made the assumption that it would be common knowledge about the construction of the towers ( etc … ) and basic laws of physics as they relate to collision events … however I was wrong, people bring up bits like the WTC tower wall should be easy to breach because it was mostly glass windows. or the idea that 3 tons of mass to be displaced in a collision at 540 mph would somehow be insignificant because it constituted aprox 2% of the mass of the airliner. there are concepts that I assumed would be common knowledge, but apparently are not … I’m sorry for not only AMERICA but the HUMAN race will see consequences of the BIG LIE. There are obvious anomalies that can be sorted out with logic rather than advanced mathematics. Like for instance why did all of the airliners virtually disappear? How much of any one airliner was recovered and documented? why did three skyscrapers “collapse” in the manner observed? Steel framed buildings completely destroyed by fire? what? the level of madness here is astounding! ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/326 "2017-10-15T20:11:43Z")
Let’s pretend that we disregard all the previous conversations we have had this subject and blindly accept your idea that it didn’t happen the way those pesky “facts” supposedly show it did: What then? Do you quit posting because your job here is complete…or do you finally reveal T_H_E T_R_U_T_H about what really happened? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/327 "2017-10-15T20:13:52Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > \ > > the level of madness here is astounding! I believe you’ve already been introduced to irony. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/328 "2017-10-15T20:16:14Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > so you personally are content to make sport of a matter that is of not only national interest but really PLANET EARTH / HUMANITY interest. Your lack of understanding of physics is not a matter of even the most local interest. None of what you are saying makes any sense. None of it agrees with the evidence. Your attempt at an equation is plainly wrong, if not completely nonsensical. If you want people to care about what you’re saying, you have to say something worth listening to. ---
**Author:** ![Fuji](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/a9a28c/32.png) [@Fuji](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Fuji)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/329 "2017-10-15T20:17:25Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > … however I was wrong … Wow - impressive. I had doubts you were even aware that was a suitable phrase to utter at times, for all of us. Work with that. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/330 "2017-10-15T20:18:46Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Of course you won’t. CTers almost never do. To do so would show that their idea has a million laughable flaws in it. > > You ‘KNOW’ on the flimsiest of reasoning. That is terrifying. The 911 hijackers ‘KNEW’ they were going to be rewarded in the afterlife for their massacre. > \* > citation needed\* > > No, because all you have produced is a laughable pile of pathetic conspiracy clownshoes claims. You have failed utterly to defend the assertions you have made and your comparisons are getting beyond the double facepalm level. Do you agree that if you see a bit of stage magic, you can appreciate the fact that its an illusion without having to know exactly how it was done. Right? so what we have here is an illusion, the trick was to convince mass numbers of people that airliners were hijacked & used as weapons, however, the flaw in the trick is that video of the alleged “FLT175” shows something that could not be, the only way that what was shown on the video could have been true, would be for the wall of the WTC tower to have been made of paper. There is additionally the fact that in 4 airliner crashes ( or alleged airliner crashes ) the airliner was made to disappear … really good trick that … and in three cases, the airliner was said to have penetrated a wall and totally disappeared on the other side of said wall. ( what are the odds ) Not to mention the fact that attempting to fly an airliner at 540 mph so near sea level is a problem, how to get the aircraft to achieve that speed, and then the fact that once having attained that speed by diving, the airliner would have to level off and then perform as a glider because at that speed the planes jet engines would not contribute to the propulsion of the aircraft. once examined in detail, the whole story of 9/11/2001 falls apart. ---
**Author:** ![Leaper](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/l/4bbf92/32.png) [@Leaper](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Leaper)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/331 "2017-10-15T20:18:50Z")
So, again, if this really is a matter of global interest, how come there is no statically significant number of scientists globally supporting 9/11 truth? Why isn’t the entire scientific community united? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/332 "2017-10-15T20:19:21Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > This is NOT a “Coke vs Pepsi” argument this is bigger than even a matter of national security > this issue is pivotal to how humanity survives the next few decades. > there is a VERY serious problem here in that I have made the assumption that it would be common knowledge about the construction of the towers ( etc … ) > and basic laws of physics as they relate to collision events … however I was wrong, people bring up bits like the WTC tower wall should be easy to breach because it was mostly glass windows. > or the idea that 3 tons of mass to be displaced in a collision at 540 mph would somehow be insignificant because it constituted aprox 2% of the mass of the airliner. > there are concepts that I assumed would be common knowledge, but apparently are not … I’m sorry for not only AMERICA but the HUMAN race will see consequences of the BIG LIE. > There are obvious anomalies that can be sorted out with logic rather than advanced mathematics. Like for instance why did all of the airliners virtually disappear? How much of any one airliner was recovered and documented? why did three skyscrapers “collapse” in the manner observed? Steel framed buildings completely destroyed by fire? what? > the level of madness here is astounding! There were pieces of the planes recovered. Remember, the wreckage was mixed into the wreckage of the Towers. You ignored the links to news stories of debris recovery. A long time ago, I was hit on my bicycle by a full size pick up truck, roughly 5,000 lbs(give or take) towing a stock trailer. I weigh 175. Just dealing with the truck, that means I weighed 3.5% of the truck. The driver said he never felt the impact, just heard it. So you ranting about 2% as being a significant obstacle is pretty much ridiculous. ---
**Author:** ![Ruken](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/f475e1/32.png) [@Ruken](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ruken)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/333 "2017-10-15T20:21:28Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Way to go, Ace. You sure showed them forces of EVIL. As a card-carrying member of the Forces of Evil, I ask that the OP vigorously continue his or her efforts. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/334 "2017-10-15T20:26:13Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Let’s pretend that we disregard all the previous conversations we have had this subject and blindly accept your idea that it didn’t happen the way those pesky “facts” supposedly show it did: What then? > Do you quit posting because your job here is complete…or do you finally reveal T_H_E T_R_U_T_H about what really happened? Have you ever seen the movie NETWORK? first you have to get MAD AS HELL … for all too many people right now, the status quo is just fine, however the status quo is having wars of aggression, in addition to a Congress that passes laws that in effect are Constitutional amendments but never ratified by the states. and all the while air travelers are subjected to totally illegal, unconstitutional search & seizure procedures that amount to total rip-off of the citizens here. The very first thing I want to see is a raising of the awareness of people as to the sorts of things that are going on, war is indeed a racket and Congress does NOT work for WE THE PEOPLE, they work for GREED INC. ---
**Author:** ![DemonTree](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/demontree/32/8646_2.png) [@DemonTree](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DemonTree)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/335 "2017-10-15T20:29:16Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > Have you ever seen the movie NETWORK? > first you have to get MAD AS HELL > … > for all too many people right now, the status quo is just fine, > however the status quo is having wars of aggression, in addition to a Congress that passes laws that in effect are Constitutional amendments but never ratified by the states. and all the while air travelers are subjected to totally illegal, unconstitutional search & seizure procedures that amount to total rip-off of the citizens here. > > The very first thing I want to see is a raising of the awareness of people > as to the sorts of things that are going on, war is indeed a racket and Congress does NOT work for WE THE PEOPLE, they work for GREED INC. What has any of that got to do with 9/11? All that could be true even if the events happened exactly as we saw. If this is what you care about, why not drop the Truther bullshit and just spread this message? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/336 "2017-10-15T20:30:25Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > Do you agree that if you see a bit of stage magic, you can appreciate the fact that its an illusion without having to know exactly how it was done. Right? Not a valid comparison. > [@](#): > > so what we have here is an illusion, the trick was to convince mass numbers of people that airliners were hijacked & used as weapons, however, the flaw in the trick is that video of the alleged “FLT175” shows something that could not be, the only way that what was shown on the video could have been true, would be for the wall of the WTC tower to have been made of paper. Here’s where you fall apart. This is simply not true. So if we extend this rather feeble ‘stage magic’ metaphor you are insisting that Penn and Teller are using massive laser beams to intercept the bullets in their bullet catching trick. WHich is something that is a) unworkable, b) unneeded, and c) wouldn’t help the trick in any real manner. > [@](#): > > There is additionally the fact that in 4 airliner crashes ( or alleged airliner crashes ) the airliner was made to disappear … really good trick that … > > and in three cases, the airliner was said to have penetrated a wall and **totally disappeared** on the other side of said wall. ( what are the odds ) (bolding mine) Large numbers of airplane parts o were found in multiple locations around the WTC. This has been pointed out to you in this thread and your failure to acknowledge people pointing it out is intellectually dishonest. As for the Pentagon plane, it more certainly did not crash as parts are visible not only outside the Pentagon but rather guesome photos are availble as part of the Moussaoui trial. > [@](#): > > Not to mention the fact that attempting to fly an airliner at 540 mph so near sea level is a problem, how to get the aircraft to achieve that speed, and then the fact that once having attained that speed by diving, the airliner would have to level off and then perform as a glider because at that speed the planes jet engines would not contribute to the propulsion of the aircraft. Y’know, you’ve already embarassed yourself in physics. Please do not make a fool of yourself trying to tell us what a plane can or cannot do, OK? > [@](#): > > once examined in detail, the whole story of 9/11/2001 falls apart. Nope. Nothig of the kind happens unless you somehow think ignoring evidence presented to you is ‘examining in detail’. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/337 "2017-10-15T20:32:51Z")
> [@Leaper](#): > > So, again, if this really is a matter of global interest, how come there is no statically significant number of scientists globally supporting 9/11 truth? Why isn’t the entire scientific community united? There have been engineering papers written in nations not exactly the most friendly to the USA that pretty much agree with NIST conclusions. For the record, not one single AE911T truther has developed a narrative of what happened. Nor have they published a single paper in a reputable journal to support their claims. ---
**Author:** ![Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/budget_player_cadet/32/205_2.png) [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Budget_Player_Cadet)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/338 "2017-10-15T20:34:57Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > You haven’t been reading well > I do NOT propose to tell “what happened” Of course not. Because that would require some effort. It’s trivial to point out things that seem weird or counterintuitive about any given event like this, especially if you don’t actually know what it’s supposed to look like - I’m reminded of the moon landing hoaxers who complain that the shadows don’t make sense and who [don’t actually know anything about and lighting](https://blogs.nvidia.com/blog/2014/09/18/debunked/). But actually explaining what _did_ happen? That’s a little harder. It opens your internal model up to the same scrutiny you offer the official story, and can often be _very_ revealing - it’s easy to argue “the hole shouldn’t look like that” when people don’t think that your explanation is “the planes were holograms, and so were the holes”. But by all means… > [@](#): > > I am explaining why I KNOW what didn’t happen and > therefore the knowledge that the media lied about what they say happened. > is this not sufficient to cause AMERICA to be MAD AS HELL? …Keep doing this. It’s very funny. ---
**Author:** ![Morgyn](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/morgyn/32/3041_2.png) [@Morgyn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Morgyn)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/339 "2017-10-15T20:42:57Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > This is NOT a “Coke vs Pepsi” argument this is bigger than even a matter of national security > this issue is pivotal to how humanity survives the next few decades. You’ve made this claim several times, but as far as I can see, you haven’t explained why you think how the towers “really came down” will affect the survival of humanity. That’s a pretty big claim. Cite? ---
**Author:** ![cochrane](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/cochrane/32/10441_2.png) [@cochrane](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cochrane)\ **Post date:** [October 15, 2017, 8:43pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/340 "2017-10-15T20:43:06Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > Not to mention the fact that attempting to fly an airliner at 540 mph so near sea level is a problem, how to get the aircraft to achieve that speed, and then the fact that once having attained that speed by diving, the airliner would have to level off and then perform as a glider because at that speed the planes jet engines would not contribute to the propulsion of the aircraft. Since an automobile had been driven over 763 mph, faster than the speed of sound, it should be a trivial matter to get a jet plane airborne going over 200 mph slower at sea level. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=16) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=18)