# Who cares to debate the events of 9/11/2001 based upon the laws of physics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861 "2017-10-14T21:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 26
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/501 "2017-10-16T14:59:16Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > so you claim that a suitcase traveling at 540 mph is guaranteed to penetrate a steel box column wall by its inertia alone and never-mind its lack of structural integrity … > > somebody once posted to one of these sorts of discussions that a custard > thrown at a skyscraper wall at 540 mph would penetrate … > > WHO BELIEVES THIS SORT OF CRAP? Anyone who took first-year physics? A fully loaded 767 weighs approximately 395,000 lb (179,000 kg). You can plug in your 540 mph figure. The equation is F=MxA. Click [here](https://www.calculatorsoup.com/calculators/physics/force.php) for a calculator if you like. Needless to say, it could easily cut through the outer walls, steel beams in the building and the stairwell. I think people have this idea that because the plane was made of aluminum it would be like taking an empty beer can and smashing it into the wall. That’s true of the can at the speed of hand. Fire that same beer can at the wall at a few hundred miles per hour, however, and the result will be quite different (get yourself an air cannon and compare and contrast smashing the can with your hand then firing that same can at your hand at 100mph and see what that difference is). Fill the can with beer and the result will be different as well. Now, look at the plane. It’s not an empty beer can without structural support…and it has a LOT of mass. I have no idea about a custard (in a container or something that would hold it together? What mass?), but basically, if you throw something with mass fast enough it will penetrate just about anything. Throw something that has a lot of mass and is going really fast and it’s going to transfer a lot of energy into the structure. That mass and energy don’t just go away. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 2:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/502 "2017-10-16T14:59:22Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > The pix you linked to are of the Restaurant at the top of one of the towers, the office windows where only 40% of the total area and the office floors is where the crash allegedly happened. What is the barest minimum number of people involved in this conspiracy? ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/503 "2017-10-16T15:02:48Z")
The argument has been expressed that the airliner did indeed slow down & stop even however inside the building. but that is a problem, because people are expected to believe that an airliner having to overcome HUGE friction + bending & breaking steel bits of the building - displacing mass that would be required to make the hole, and with all of that going on, the airliner did not slow down so as to be seen on the video? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:05pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/504 "2017-10-16T15:05:47Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > The argument has been expressed that the airliner did indeed slow down & stop even > however inside the building. but that is a problem, because people are expected to believe > that an airliner having to overcome HUGE friction + bending & breaking steel bits of the building > > - displacing mass that would be required to make the hole, and with all of that going on, > the airliner did not slow down so as to be seen on the video? What is your alternate explanation as to what happened? ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:07pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/505 "2017-10-16T15:07:03Z")
Yes, I would like to know. Please explain what you believe happened. ---
**Author:** ![Tibby](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/tibby/32/17030_2.png) [@Tibby](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Tibby)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/506 "2017-10-16T15:10:22Z")
> [@Smapti](#): > > The part where literally millions of people, including myself, saw it happen live, either in person or on television and that it was filmed happening from multiple angles I don’t believe Jay Jay is denying two airplanes crashed into the Twin Towers, he just doesn’t believe those crashes caused the towers to fall. Now that he brought this compelling theory to my attention, it makes sense. The airplanes contained no terrorists. The pilots just accidentally flew into the towers at the exact same moments that the actual, _wily_ terrorists pushed the Acme TNT plungers. Simply a coincidence. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/507 "2017-10-16T15:10:25Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > The argument has been expressed that the airliner did indeed slow down & stop even > however inside the building. but that is a problem, because people are expected to believe > that an airliner having to overcome HUGE friction + bending & breaking steel bits of the building > > - displacing mass that would be required to make the hole, and with all of that going on, > the airliner did not slow down so as to be seen on the video? Again, you need to understand the force here. It’s not going to stop on a dime. Basically, when the airplane hit the building it became almost a liquid moving at very high speed. And imparted a massive amount of energy into the structure. It’s not going to just stop, it’s going to cut through anything in its way until the energy is dissipated. Basically, it’s going to work just like the shaped charge in an RPG hitting a piece of armor. Even though it’s only a really small and relatively light piece of copper, it’s concentrated at a small point and moving very fast due to the explosive charge…that’s how a small piece of copper can cut right through a vehicle. This would work very similarly and would cut through steel beams, structural supports and anything else in its way. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/508 "2017-10-16T15:13:46Z")
> [@Sunny\_Daze](#): > > Yes, I would like to know. Please explain what you believe happened. He’s just asking questions. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/509 "2017-10-16T15:16:10Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > \*\*The pix \*\*you linked to are of the Restaurant at the top of one of the towers, the office windows where only 40% of the total area and the office floors is where the crash allegedly happened. Which picture? There’s a whole page of vastly different photos. I’d say you didn’t actually follow the link. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/510 "2017-10-16T15:18:20Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > The argument has been expressed that the airliner did indeed slow down & stop even > however inside the building. but that is a problem, because people are expected to believe > that an airliner having to overcome HUGE friction + bending & breaking steel bits of the building > > - displacing mass that would be required to make the hole, and with all of that going on, > the airliner did not slow down so as to be seen on the video? The airliner did slow down, and stopped inside the building. You can see that on the video. What does friction have to do with it? The plane crashed into the building, leaving a large hole. I also would like to hear a more detailed explanation of what you think happened. AFAICT, your idea is that the place crashed into the building, but didn’t penetrate, but flattened against the outside, and then demolition charges on that exact floor went off at that exact minute and brought down the tower. Is that it? Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:19pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/511 "2017-10-16T15:19:29Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > Which picture? There’s a whole page of vastly different photos. > I’d say you didn’t actually follow the link. the link has pictures of a LOT of different windows, many of them are NOT WTC tower windows at all and the pix at the top of the page showing those very tall windows, are of the top floor Restaurant … however, the office space windows are the ones where the alleged airliner crashes happened and those windows are smaller and in fact make only 40% of the total area. Can you get your head around that? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/512 "2017-10-16T15:21:04Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > The argument has been expressed that the airliner did indeed slow down & stop even > however inside the building. but that is a problem, because people are expected to believe > that an airliner having to overcome HUGE friction + bending & breaking steel bits of the building > > - displacing mass that would be required to make the hole, and with all of that going on, > the airliner did not slow down so as to be seen on the video? Seriously, what do you mean ‘did not slow down?’. It certainly did slow down and most of it was still in the building. That’s pretty slow. What do you expect? Did you think it would be like some drill that when it hit the harder amterial would slow down and start grinding. That’s not how it happens. Did you think it would hit like a lawn dart and stick out of the building? You obviously still have no concept of the kinetic energy those planes had. You whine that nobody should beleive what was seen by people and dozens of videos, you handwave and special plead other examples of high velocity objects breaking tougher objects, and yet to studiously avoid giving any reasonable explanation for what you think should have happened to a plane hitting the tower at the speeds they were going. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:21pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/513 "2017-10-16T15:21:34Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The airliner did slow down, and stopped inside the building. You can see that on the video. > > What does friction have to do with it? The plane crashed into the building, leaving a large hole. > > I also would like to hear a more detailed explanation of what you think happened. AFAICT, your idea is that the place crashed into the building, but didn’t penetrate, but flattened against the outside, and then demolition charges on that exact floor went off at that exact minute and brought down the tower. Is that it? > > Regards, > Shodan "What does friction have to do with it? The plane crashed into the building, leaving a large hole. " Friction, note that the airliner body was 5 meters in dia, and the space between decks was 3.6 and with further impediment of the floor truss structure in that space. so there would be LOTS of friction in getting the airliner inside the building. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/514 "2017-10-16T15:24:05Z")
Jay\_Jay, after ten pages of back and forth, perhaps it’s time you enlighten us by telling us exactly what you think happened and why? Go ahead. The forum is yours. We’re all ears/eyes. ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/515 "2017-10-16T15:24:24Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > "What does friction have to do with it? The plane crashed into the building, leaving a large hole. " > > Friction, note that the airliner body was 5 meters in dia, and the space between decks was 3.6 and with further impediment of the floor truss structure in that space. > so there would be LOTS of friction in getting the airliner inside the building. So, what do you think actually happened? Did those planes hit the tower, or not? If they didn’t, what do you think happened? ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:26pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/516 "2017-10-16T15:26:29Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > Seriously, what do you mean ‘did not slow down?’. It certainly did slow down and most of it was still in the building. That’s pretty slow. > > What do you expect? Did you think it would be like some drill that when it hit the harder amterial would slow down and start grinding. That’s not how it happens. Did you think it would hit like a lawn dart and stick out of the building? > > You obviously still have no concept of the kinetic energy those planes had. You whine that nobody should beleive what was seen by people and dozens of videos, you handwave and special plead other examples of high velocity objects breaking tougher objects, and yet to studiously avoid giving any reasonable explanation for what you think should have happened to a plane hitting the tower at the speeds they were going. from the very moment that the nose encountered the tower wall, there would have to be slowing down caused but the resistance from having to displace mass, bend/break structural members ( etc… ) and this slowing down would be significant in that it would cause g force stress to the aircraft, and such g force stress to the aircraft would cause breaking up such that the contents of the plane, that is luggage, passengers ( whatever ) would spill out and be deposited in the street below. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/517 "2017-10-16T15:30:27Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > What is your alternate explanation as to what happened? this is what should have happened if a real airliner had crashed into the side of the tower. however the “news” reporting of the day, proves beyond any doubt that the whole scene is fraud, the media lied! ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/518 "2017-10-16T15:31:07Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > from the very moment that the nose encountered the tower wall, there would have to be slowing down caused but the resistance from having to displace mass, bend/break structural members ( etc… ) and this slowing down would be significant in that it would cause g force stress to the aircraft, and such g force stress to the aircraft would cause breaking up such that the contents of the plane, that is luggage, passengers ( whatever ) would spill out and be deposited in the street below. > [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > this is what should have happened if a real airliner had crashed into the side of the tower. however the “news” reporting of the day, proves beyond any doubt that the whole scene is fraud, the media lied! So, according to you, because none of that happened, what _really_ did happen? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/519 "2017-10-16T15:31:33Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > from the very moment that the nose encountered the tower wall, there would have to be slowing down caused but the resistance from having to displace mass, bend/break structural members ( etc… ) and this slowing down would be significant in that it would cause g force stress to the aircraft, and such g force stress to the aircraft would cause breaking up such that the contents of the plane, that is luggage, passengers ( whatever ) would spill out and be deposited in the street below. So you expect an instant breakup of the entire plane, all mass would go from 540mph to zero in an instant and fall to the ground? Does that sum it up? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/520 "2017-10-16T15:31:50Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > this is what should have happened if a real airliner had crashed into the side of the tower. however the “news” reporting of the day, proves beyond any doubt that the whole scene is fraud, the media lied! So what really happened? edited to add: What did I really see on live television if it wasn’t a jet hitting the second tower? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=25) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=27)