# Who cares to debate the events of 9/11/2001 based upon the laws of physics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861 "2017-10-14T21:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 28
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/541 "2017-10-16T15:47:10Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > not my problem if you do not see the logic here It kind of is seeing that the majority of the world does not agree with you. > [@](#): > > it is possible to see a trick done, and KNOW that it was a trick > without having to explain HOW it was done. When your trick involves fooling thousands of eyewitnesses and involves mocking up dozens of videos (including some live videos) whilst mananging to hide any videos that might have shown a WTC without a plane hitting it, etc. you’ve gone well beyond the magician’s code and into bizzaro realm. > [@](#): > > if you do not see logic here, like I said, not my problem. This is Great Debates. It kind of\* is \*your problem. You came here seeking a debate but are upset because you are not allowed to let your unsupported ideas go unchallenged. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:47pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/542 "2017-10-16T15:47:48Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > Please do consider the logic here, > it is possible to KNOW that airliners were not used as weapons. > with that information and that information alone > if the AMERICAN public wanted to launch action against > Bush, Obama, Trump (et all) for being complicit in a cover-up > this would be sufficient to get the case into court and I am convinced that > in any court with a Judge not already sold out, we could win a decisive victory. I hear ya. We need to hold them all responsible for this cover-up. I’m just a little bit fuzzy on why they colluded to commit this crime. Could you explain that a bit more? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/543 "2017-10-16T15:48:36Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > Please do consider the logic here, > it is possible to KNOW that airliners were not used as weapons. > with that information and that information alone > if the AMERICAN public wanted to launch action against > Bush, Obama, Trump (et all) for being complicit in a cover-up > this would be sufficient to get the case into court and I am convinced that > in any court with a Judge not already sold out, we could win a decisive victory. Bush, Obama, Trump, All the television and radio networks, the military, all those lying “eyewitnesses”…did I miss anyone? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/544 "2017-10-16T15:48:51Z")
> [@robby](#): > > Using **Magiver** ’s figures above, I’m calculating that the plane that hit the WTC had more than 17 times the kinetic energy of the B-25 that hit the Empire State Building. From [RationalWiki.](https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/9-11#The_Empire_State_Building_was_hit_by_an_airplane_and_survived.3B_why_not_the_WTC.3F) > [@](#): > > The B-25 is estimated at 9,750 kg flying 320 kph, versus a Boeing 767-223ER (AA 11) or 767-222 (UA 175) with a mass of at least 90,000 kg flying at 750 kph (or 950 kph) respectively. This would have given the **B-25 40 megajoules** of kinetic energy on impact, while the **AA 11 and UA 175 would have delivered 2 gigajoules and 3 gigajoules** respectively, resulting in least 50 times the kinetic energy on impact. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/545 "2017-10-16T15:49:40Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > from the very moment that the nose encountered the tower wall, there would have to be slowing down caused but the resistance from having to displace mass, bend/break structural members ( etc… ) and this slowing down would be significant in that it would cause g force stress to the aircraft, and such g force stress to the aircraft would cause breaking up such that the contents of the plane, that is luggage, passengers ( whatever ) would spill out and be deposited in the street below. The contents of the plane are moving forward at the same speed as the plane itself. So they are going to tend to travel in the same direction as the rest of the plane. If the plane penetrates, they are also going to tend to penetrate. You can test this rather easily - fill a water balloon with water, and throw it against the wall. Most of the water splashes against the wall - it doesn’t drop to the ground directly. You are correct that the force of impact broke up the airplane, but that doesn’t make its contents drop directly downwards. That’s why people without seat belts tend to smash into the dashboard when their car hits something head-on. Their inertia makes them continue to travel forward even though the front of the car is decelerating. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:50pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/546 "2017-10-16T15:50:14Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > In those 50 milliseconds, the plane will travel 4 ft. You expect the entire plane to break up completely in that distance? > Where did you get 50 milliseconds? > Do you know what a millisecond is? > ETA: 40ft. Misplaced a decimal. My goof. at 800 ft/sec, 50 millisecond = 40 ft you slipped a decimal … and yes, this sort of deceleration is not only possible, but plausible under the circumstances ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/547 "2017-10-16T15:53:07Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > The contents of the plane are moving forward at the same speed as the plane itself. So they are going to tend to travel in the same direction as the rest of the plane. If the plane penetrates, they are also going to tend to penetrate. > > You can test this rather easily - fill a water balloon with water, and throw it against the wall. Most of the water splashes against the wall - it doesn’t drop to the ground directly. > > You are correct that the force of impact broke up the airplane, but that doesn’t make its contents drop directly downwards. That’s why people without seat belts tend to smash into the dashboard when their car hits something head-on. Their inertia makes them continue to travel forward even though the front of the car is decelerating. > > Regards, > Shodan however, is it a guaranteed certainty that a suitcase or for that matter a body traveling at aprox 540 mph could impact the WTC tower wall and penetrate? since the object in question are smaller than the airliner, they have much less KE, and as such will not have the penetrating power. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/548 "2017-10-16T15:53:30Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > at 800 ft/sec, 50 millisecond = 40 ft > > you slipped a decimal … > and yes, this sort of deceleration is not only possible, but plausible under the circumstances > [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > however, is it a guaranteed certainty that a suitcase or for that matter a body > traveling at aprox 540 mph could impact the WTC tower wall and penetrate? > since the object in question are smaller than the airliner, they have much less KE, and as such will not have the penetrating power. But none of that matters now because you’ve established that there were no planes. Let’s really focus on the heart of the matter - why the cover-up and who besides Bush, Obama and Trump was in on this? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/549 "2017-10-16T15:53:42Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > and exactly how was that energy distributed? Among the frontage silhoutte of the airplane. Maybe not evenly but it hardly matters. > [@](#): > > how was it focused so as to ONLY affect the point where the airliner contacted the wall? WHat does this even mean? > [@](#): > > have you considered EQUAL & OPPOSITE REACTION? I’d say the destruction of the plane on impact is pretty equal and opposite. ---
**Author:** ![simster](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/simster/32/1047_2.png) [@simster](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/simster)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/550 "2017-10-16T15:54:18Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > “So you expect an instant breakup of the entire plane” > > instantly, no, however given aprox 50 milliseconds to accomplish the task, > the airliner would be so seriously damaged as to deposit most of its mass down the side of the building falling to street level. Me thinks you learned all of your physics from watching Bugs Bunny cartoons. ---
**Author:** ![watchwolf49](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/e9c0ed/32.png) [@watchwolf49](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/watchwolf49)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:54pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/551 "2017-10-16T15:54:51Z")
Nitpick: The momentum of a fluid is calculated somewhat differently … the aluminum part of the airplane did some damage but it was the av-gas that brought the towers down … ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/552 "2017-10-16T15:55:43Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > if the AMERICAN public wanted to launch action against > Bush Custodian William “What’s My Story Today” Rodriguez tried that after being interviewed by Alex “Everything’s a Conspiracy” Jones. ---
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/553 "2017-10-16T15:55:52Z")
> [@robby](#): > > This is supposedly a thread based on physics, but people keep throwing out random physics equations with (apparently) no idea how to apply them. > > In the equation **F** = _m_ **a** , the **a** stands for **acceleration**. Acceleration is not the same thing as speed or velocity. Nevertheless, two people quoted above have erroneously used the speed of the plane in this equation instead of acceleration. > > **Magiver** , you’re apparently (and erroneously) trying to use Newton’s 2nd Law (which calculates force, not energy) to calculate the relative kinetic energies (KE) of two airplane collisions. Force is not the same thing as energy (or kinetic energy). > > The equation to calculate kinetic energy (KE) is **KE** = 0.5 **m** _v_[sup]2[/sup]. > > Using **Magiver** ’s figures above, I’m calculating that the plane that hit the WTC had more than 17 times the kinetic energy of the B-25 that hit the Empire State Building. Well, I didn’t want to get into that, though after I posted I realized that he wouldn’t understand what a newton was and wanted to put it in terms of kilojoules, so, yeah, it wasn’t an optimal choice in equation. I was using acceleration=delta V over delta T, roughly based on going from 540 MPH to 0 in 5 seconds based on the video. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 3:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/554 "2017-10-16T15:59:07Z")
> [@Czarcasm](#): > > Bush, Obama, Trump, All the television and radio networks, the military, all those lying “eyewitnesses”…did I miss anyone? “lying eye witnesses” ONLY the ones who state that they saw the airliner ( or rather the alleged airliner ) penetrate the skyscraper wall, all of the others may be mistaken or whatever, but the individual witnesses are the least of our problem here. & Yes by all means include indictments against the media. and pleas do not say “the military” there may be specific individuals in the military who were responsible for covering up, but you can’t bust the whole military for something tat a few individuals are responsible for. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 4:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/555 "2017-10-16T16:00:36Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > however, is it a guaranteed certainty that a suitcase or for that matter a body > traveling at aprox 540 mph could impact the WTC tower wall and penetrate? > since the object in question are smaller than the airliner, they have much less KE, and as such will not have the penetrating power. How do you know? Remember the ping pong ball? How about the Phantom jet that didn’t disintegrate on impact but progressively? ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/556 "2017-10-16T16:01:02Z")
> [@simster](#): > > Me thinks you learned all of your physics from watching Bugs Bunny cartoons. I actually think Bugs Bunny might do a better job than what his ideas are. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/557 "2017-10-16T16:01:26Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > and exactly how was that energy distributed? It went into the building that it hit, knocking a hole in the side. Some was distributed as heat, although that was minor compared to the heat of the jet fuel, the rest as kinetic energy. > [@](#): > > how was it focused so as to ONLY affect the point where the airliner contacted the wall? It wasn’t - it also damaged the floors, support structures, and so on. > [@](#): > > have you considered EQUAL & OPPOSITE REACTION? Yes. The building hit the plane as hard as the plane hit the building, depending on your frame of reference. The plane was destroyed, and the building had a hole blown in it, and then the floors collapsed down onto each other and then the whole building collapsed. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/558 "2017-10-16T16:01:26Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Custodian William “What’s My Story Today” Rodriguez tried that after being interviewed by Alex “Everything’s a Conspiracy” Jones. and unfortunately the AMERICAN public is not as yet on-board with the program. oops… planet earth, we have a problem here… ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 4:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/559 "2017-10-16T16:01:41Z")
> [@watchwolf49](#): > > Nitpick: The momentum of a fluid is calculated somewhat differently … the aluminum part of the airplane did some damage but it was the av-gas that brought the towers down … Surely all the furniture and cubicle walls had some part? We know from Charleston on 18 June 2007 that ordinary furniture can reach in excess of 1300°F and bring down a steel frame the size of the average Tower floor in less than an hour. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 4:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/560 "2017-10-16T16:02:05Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > “lying eye witnesses” ONLY the ones who state that they saw the airliner ( or rather the alleged airliner ) penetrate the skyscraper wall, all of the others may be mistaken or whatever, but the individual witnesses are the least of our problem here. > > & Yes by all means include indictments against the media. > and pleas do not say “the military” there may be specific individuals in the military who were responsible for covering up, but you can’t bust the whole military for something tat a few individuals are responsible for. There were hundreds of videos taken that day. They’re _all_ doctored? [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=27) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=29)