# Who cares to debate the events of 9/11/2001 based upon the laws of physics? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [October 14, 2017, 9:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861 "2017-10-14T21:40:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 36
**Author:** ![XT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/xt/32/456_2.png) [@XT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/XT)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/701 "2017-10-16T19:22:59Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > 4500 tons per floor x 15 floors=67,500 tons on the move. Each succeeding floor adds it’s mass. > Remember, the supports are for static loads, not a dynamic spike. In case you didn’t notice, some debris was ejected though the major mass stayed centered. This is obvious from the fact that the Towers fell mostly in their own footprint. > > What bullshit theory do you have that accounts for the fall? There was plenty of debris that fell all around, some of it striking other buildings. The majority of the mass, however, fell more or less straight down…gravity being the only major force acting on it. This is true whether the building was brought down by controlled demolition or as it actually was, due to structural collapse. What’s always puzzled me about the controlled demo people is how they can be shown that the collapse started, quite clearly, from the impact site and propagated downward, yet still think that the building was brought down with magic explosives. ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:23pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/702 "2017-10-16T19:23:51Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > Not if the floors collapse under the weight of the debris, which is what happened. And especially not if they are sprayed with jet fuel and set on fire, weakening the steel supports, which then collapse. Downward, not sideways. > > The debris didn’t have a chance to pile up and spill over the sides - the floors collapsed under the weight. > > Regards, > Shodan it would be VERY simple for at any given floor for the connections at the core to hold on for just a bit longer than the connections at the outer wall, and therefore form a ramp that material would roll off and by that exit the action, causing the whole thing to stop. ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/703 "2017-10-16T19:27:52Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > it would be VERY simple for at any given floor for the connections at the core to hold on for just a bit longer than the connections at the outer wall, and therefore form a ramp that material would roll off and by that exit the action, causing the whole thing to stop. Oh bullshit. Remember the string and weight? Same concept except downward. Nothing can hold on for just a bit. Get yourself a 16 ton weight and stand under it. Let us know if you manage to hold it up for just a bit when it’s dropped. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/704 "2017-10-16T19:30:05Z")
> [@running\_coach](#): > > He doesn’t know anything, he was told what to believe. He was given orders to go out and proselytize. All of which would be far more interesting reading than his butchery of science. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/705 "2017-10-16T19:30:22Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > we were discussing the towers and it was WTC7 that had the fuel and aux generators. You’re seriously claiming that both towers had _zero_ [backup generators](https://www.reddit.com/r/before911/comments/71fuhn/diesel_backup_generators_on_the_41st_floor_of_the/)? “[After the 1993 bombing, the exit routes were lit with backup generators in case of power failures, and some stairwells were expanded. Businesses also had training to educate employees about how to evacuate.](https://news.unt.edu/news-releases/study-says-private-businesses-played-vital-role-wtc-disaster-response)” ---
**Author:** ![BeepKillBeep](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/b/9e8a1a/32.png) [@BeepKillBeep](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BeepKillBeep)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:30pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/706 "2017-10-16T19:30:29Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > it would be VERY simple for at any given floor for the connections at the core to hold on for just a bit longer than the connections at the outer wall, and therefore form a ramp that material would roll off and by that exit the action, causing the whole thing to stop. It would be VERY simple for you to realize that all of your arguments are foolish nonsense, but I wouldn’t bet on that happening either. And I think I’ve spent enough time reading and replying (even as limited as it has been) on this thread. Definitely some good “ha ha!” moments, but I’m out. ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/707 "2017-10-16T19:31:18Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > it would be VERY simple for at any given floor for the connections at the core to hold on for just a bit longer than the connections at the outer wall, and therefore form a ramp that material would roll off and by that exit the action, causing the whole thing to stop. I’m going to go thank some random diety that you have not and will not ever have anything to do with load bearing systems that might involve human life. ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/708 "2017-10-16T19:33:49Z")
> [@XT](#): > > There was plenty of debris that fell all around, some of it striking other buildings. The majority of the mass, however, fell more or less straight down…gravity being the only major force acting on it. > > This is true whether the building was brought down by controlled demolition or as it actually was, due to structural collapse. What’s always puzzled me about the controlled demo people is how they can be shown that the collapse started, quite clearly, from the impact site and propagated downward, yet still think that the building was brought down with magic explosives. Magic _stealth_ explosives that nobody heard. ---
**Author:** ![CurtC](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ce73a5/32.png) [@CurtC](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/CurtC)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/709 "2017-10-16T19:34:12Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > OK > oh science guy, what happens to an airliner traveling at 800 ft/sec > and encountering an obstacle that is 2% of its own mass? > there will be a jolt as the airliner overcomes the inertia of said mass > and of what magnitude would this jolt be? I’m not sure what the point of your question is, but for educational reasons I’ll play along. A 767 weighs about 200 tons. Two percent of its mass would be 4 tons. So what happens when a 200 ton object going 800 ft/s hits a four-ton object going zero (sorry for all the non-SI units here, but we’re already pushing his limits)? The mass would slow the airplane down to about 784 ft/s. I don’t know where you’re getting the 2% number - the steel beams had probably that weight, but there was more that the airplane hit, such as the edges of one or two giant concrete slabs, and office furniture. Even then, there was a whole lot of debris that came out the other side at a high rate of speed. Now, can you explain why that matters? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:35pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/710 "2017-10-16T19:35:47Z")
> [@Skywatcher](#): > > Magic _stealth_ explosives that nobody heard. Each stick of dynamite fits neatly in a standard firearm silencer. ---
**Author:** ![Shodan](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/9f8e36/32.png) [@Shodan](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Shodan)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/711 "2017-10-16T19:37:07Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > it would be VERY simple for at any given floor for the connections at the core to hold on for just a bit longer than the connections at the outer wall, and therefore form a ramp that material would roll off and by that exit the action, causing the whole thing to stop. It would be, if any of the floors were strong enough. But they weren’t, and as more and more debris accumulated, it became more and more impossible. Skyscrapers are held together by their support columns. They aren’t strong enough to hold up against lateral impact, like a fully loaded airliner smashing into them at 500 mph. So they fail, and then the floors collapse, and the jet fuel sets things on fire, which weakens them further, and more floors collapse, and the whole thing comes crashing down. Down, not sideways. Regards, Shodan ---
**Author:** ![Skywatcher](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/skywatcher/32/254_2.png) [@Skywatcher](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Skywatcher)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/712 "2017-10-16T19:40:17Z")
> [@Shodan](#): > > It would be, if any of the floors were strong enough. But they weren’t, and as more and more debris accumulated, it became more and more impossible. > > Skyscrapers are held together by their support columns. They aren’t strong enough to hold up against lateral impact, like a fully loaded airliner smashing into them at 500 mph. So they fail, and then the floors collapse, and the jet fuel sets things on fire, which weakens them further, and more floors collapse, and the whole thing comes crashing down. Down, not sideways. The buildings in the WTC weren’t your typical skyscrapers, either. The roofs played a big role in holding the buildings together. ---
**Author:** ![Wolf333](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf333/32/3460_2.png) [@Wolf333](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Wolf333)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/713 "2017-10-16T19:44:51Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > not accounting for the resistance that would be in the floor below > upon encountering resistance, stuff takes a different path > that is the path of least resistance. fact is that a mass of rubble > falling on the remaining floors of the skyscraper would most likely > form a cone shaped mound on top of the lower floors and thereby > having the falling stuff roll off and down the sides. You don’t know how pancakes work, do you? ---
**Author:** ![Jay\_Jay](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/b9e5f3/32.png) [@Jay\_Jay](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jay_Jay)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:45pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/714 "2017-10-16T19:45:08Z")
> [@CurtC](#): > > I’m not sure what the point of your question is, but for educational reasons I’ll play along. A 767 weighs about 200 tons. Two percent of its mass would be 4 tons. So what happens when a 200 ton object going 800 ft/s hits a four-ton object going zero (sorry for all the non-SI units here, but we’re already pushing his limits)? The mass would slow the airplane down to about 784 ft/s. > > I don’t know where you’re getting the 2% number - the steel beams had probably that weight, but there was more that the airplane hit, such as the edges of one or two giant concrete slabs, and office furniture. Even then, there was a whole lot of debris that came out the other side at a high rate of speed. > > Now, can you explain why that matters? the why it matters is to demonstrate that even if all you want to consider is the inertia of the mass to be displaced, there would be a significant jolt to the airliner something like 100 g, and because there would be decks, and other impediments involved, the resistance would not be like penetrating a simple single layer of something but more like having to impact a block of ballistic jell, and given that, the deceleration would be significant and destructive. if the theory is that the tail of the airliner would somehow be limited to 10g deceleration while the nose is subjected to 100 g deceleration then something in the middle is going to have to give, whatever is the weak link in the airliner is going to break and at that the airliner would bust up into several large pieces and impact the wall in a chaotic manner. ---
**Author:** ![Jonathan\_Chance](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/jonathan_chance/32/701_2.png) [@Jonathan\_Chance](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jonathan_Chance)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/715 "2017-10-16T19:55:26Z")
> [@Budget\_Player\_Cadet](#): > > Shouldn’t you be threatening a pizza parlor with a gun or something?. Ok, that’s enough. No warning but this thread is now on double secret probation. Best behavior from all sides is required. [/moderating] ---
**Author:** ![Mr.Miskatonic](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mr.miskatonic/32/310_2.png) [@Mr.Miskatonic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mr.Miskatonic)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/716 "2017-10-16T19:56:35Z")
> [@Jay\_Jay](#): > > the why it matters is to demonstrate that even if all you want to consider > is the inertia of the mass to be displaced, there would be a significant jolt > to the airliner something like 100 g, and because there would be decks, > and other impediments involved, the resistance would not be like penetrating > a simple single layer of something but more like having to impact a block of > ballistic jell, and given that, the deceleration would be significant and destructive. I’m just going to point out that this rambling above is one single, run-on sentence. Do you wonder why you have a hard time being understood? ---
**Author:** ![running\_coach](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/running_coach/32/15836_2.png) [@running\_coach](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/running_coach)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/717 "2017-10-16T19:58:59Z")
> [@Mr.Miskatonic](#): > > I’m just going to point out that this rambling above is **one single, run-on sentence**. Do you wonder why you have a hard time being understood? Not so much that as much as the content. ---
**Author:** ![QuickSilver](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/quicksilver/32/7832_2.png) [@QuickSilver](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/QuickSilver)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 7:59pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/718 "2017-10-16T19:59:26Z")
Jay\_Jay, Why did the US government orchestrate the events of 9/11? Who were the major players involved in the planning and execution of these events? What did they have to gain in doing so? Why do subsequent administrations continue to cover it up? What evidence exists for the orchestration and the on going cover-up? Where did you first learn of this? Has anyone actively encouraged you to promote these ideas? If so, who or what organization do they represent? Do you worry that the gov’t might retaliate against you in some way for uncovering ‘the truth’, as you understand it? ---
**Author:** ![Czarcasm](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/czarcasm/32/4050_2.png) [@Czarcasm](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Czarcasm)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 8:01pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/719 "2017-10-16T20:01:15Z")
Trump and Obama conspiring together? Holographic planes are more believable! ---
**Author:** ![Sunny\_Daze](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/sunny_daze/32/438_2.png) [@Sunny\_Daze](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sunny_Daze)\ **Post date:** [October 16, 2017, 8:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861/720 "2017-10-16T20:14:43Z")
**jay\_jay** why did anyone fake this? What are you proposing did happen? You must have some idea, or there is no point of coming here and talking about this. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=35) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-cares-to-debate-the-events-of-9-11-2001-based-upon-the-laws-of-physics/798861.md?page=37)