# Who carries the most blame in these three scenarios of sexual conflict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684 "2010-12-19T04:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:22am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/21 "2010-12-19T06:22:40Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > I am afraid I do not understand what you are getting at. “a slap in the face is not in the same class as cheating on your longtime boyfriend” I’m just focusing on this bit. I know that it’s taken out of everything else that you said of which seemed pretty rational; however, this one part seems like justifying physical violence. She had sex with other people, but it’s her body right? Can’t she do whatever she wants with it without punishment? ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:25am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/22 "2010-12-19T06:25:28Z")
> [@Knigel](#): > > “a slap in the face is not in the same class as cheating on your longtime boyfriend” > > I’m just focusing on this bit. I know that it’s taken out of everything else that you said of which seemed pretty rational; however, this one part seems like justifying physical violence. > > She had sex with other people, but it’s her body right? Can’t she do whatever she wants with it without punishment? Yes, which is why I said I didn’t want to sound like an apologist for spousal abuse. Hitting someone is (basically) never OK. But you’re comparing a solitary act of physical violence committed in the heat of the moment (and one that won’t even leave any lingering effects, at that) to a pre-meditated act of betrayal which will probably crush Jake’s life for at least 6 months. ---
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:34am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/23 "2010-12-19T06:34:14Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > Yes, which is why I said I didn’t want to sound like an apologist for spousal abuse. Hitting someone is (basically) never OK. But you’re comparing a solitary act of physical violence committed in the heat of the moment (and one that won’t even leave any lingering effects, at that) to a pre-meditated act of betrayal which will probably crush Jake’s life for at least 6 months. That seems like you are claiming to not be apologist and then turning around and being apologist. If he hit her because she cheated, can we really give her any blame? Isn’t it his problem to deal with the emotions of his wife playing around? It is her body to do what she wishes, correct? Can we justify hitting people when they use their bodies for sex. ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/24 "2010-12-19T06:38:29Z")
All three guys are fucking scumbags, especially the rapo, and all three guys are 100% responsiible for their own actions. ---
**Author:** ![don\_t\_ask](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e68b1a/32.png) [@don\_t\_ask](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/don_t_ask)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:40am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/25 "2010-12-19T06:40:17Z")
> [@Knigel](#): > > Why is Hyemin to blame for getting drunk and going to a hotel? Because no one made her get drunk, unless you omitted the bit about someone holding her down and pouring alcohol down her throat, and she wasn’t taken to the hotel by force. ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/26 "2010-12-19T06:42:08Z")
The pain of being slapped goes away in a matter of hours, if not minutes. The pain of being cheated on would last a lot longer. Both of them are mental feelings; one of them is more abstract than the other, but they’re both caused by chemical reactions inside the brain. Which would also make it physical pain, since the brain is a physical organ. Being slapped causes the chemical reactions in your brain to make you feel one type of pain; being cheated on causes the chemical reactions in your brain to make you feel a different kind of pain. One is not objectively worse than the other. The law says that the assault is worse, obviously. But they’re both ultimately just different combinations of neurons firing. ---
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/27 "2010-12-19T06:43:22Z")
> [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Because no one made her get drunk, unless you omitted the bit about someone holding her down and pouring alcohol down her throat, and she wasn’t taken to the hotel by force. Okay, but if she went there and nothing bad happened, would you still blame her for drinking and going to a hotel? What’s wrong with getting drunk and going to a hotel? ---
**Author:** ![Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/e99b99/32.png) [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Diogenes_the_Cynic)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/28 "2010-12-19T06:46:05Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The pain of being slapped goes away in a matter of hours, if not minutes. The pain of being cheated on would last a lot longer. Both of them are mental feelings; one of them is more abstract than the other, but they’re both caused by chemical reactions inside the brain. Which would also make it physical pain, since the brain is a physical organ. Being slapped causes the chemical reactions in your brain to make you feel one type of pain; being cheated on causes the chemical reactions in your brain to make you feel a different kind of pain. > > One is not objectively worse than the other. The law says that the assault is worse, obviously. But they’re both ultimately just different combinations of neurons firing. I cannot agree with this. Cheating on someome is not physical violence. Getting cheated on sucks, but too bad, No one has a right to not get cheated on. ---
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 6:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/29 "2010-12-19T06:52:12Z")
> [@Argent\_Towers](#): > > The pain of being slapped goes away in a matter of hours, if not minutes. The pain of being cheated on would last a lot longer. Both of them are mental feelings; one of them is more abstract than the other, but they’re both caused by chemical reactions inside the brain. Which would also make it physical pain, since the brain is a physical organ. Being slapped causes the chemical reactions in your brain to make you feel one type of pain; being cheated on causes the chemical reactions in your brain to make you feel a different kind of pain. > > One is not objectively worse than the other. The law says that the assault is worse, obviously. But they’re both ultimately just different combinations of neurons firing. This seems like a slippery slope. If we use your argument, we’d be able to compare water boarding and rollercoasters since we get similar physiological responses. Also, by your argument, it would seem that getting hit would be the worst since one is not only getting physical pain, but also the emotional pain of being hit. Double effect, no? ---
**Author:** ![Argent\_Towers](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/e8c25b/32.png) [@Argent\_Towers](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Argent_Towers)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/30 "2010-12-19T07:21:17Z")
> [@Diogenes\_the\_Cynic](#): > > I cannot agree with this. Cheating on someome is not physical violence. Getting cheated on sucks, but too bad, No one has a right to not get cheated on. All I’m saying is that mental pain can be as bad as physical pain, or worse. OK, nobody has a “right” not to get cheated on, true. I would rather be slapped - hell, beaten - than feel certain kinds of psychological pain. I remember when I was 7 or 8 years old, I went through a period where for some reason I would get this feeling that something terrible was going to happen to my mom whenever she was away. My mind came up with all kinds of awful scenarios involving her getting kidnapped or killed. I have no idea where this came from, and it only lasted for a few months, but I’ll never forget how terrifying it felt, and I’d rather be physically beaten than ever feel it again. ---
**Author:** ![markdash](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ba8739/32.png) [@markdash](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/markdash)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 7:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/31 "2010-12-19T07:28:39Z")
> [@Knigel](#): > > That seems like you are claiming to not be apologist and then turning around and being apologist. If he hit her because she cheated, can we really give her any blame? Isn’t it his problem to deal with the emotions of his wife playing around? It is her body to do what she wishes, correct? Can we justify hitting people when they use their bodies for sex. I’m not saying he’s not to blame, I’m saying I personally feel that what she did was a hell of a lot worse than what he did. I guess this gets to the root of the question–what is the precise event to which we are assigning blame? Because I assigned blame based on the sum of the situation–you have two people in a 7 year relationship who are now going to break up (presumably) and the guy slapped the girl. Who is at fault in this? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:13am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/32 "2010-12-19T08:13:18Z")
> [@markdash](#): > > Yes, which is why I said I didn’t want to sound like an apologist for spousal abuse. Hitting someone is (basically) never OK. But you’re comparing a solitary act of physical violence committed in the heat of the moment (and one that won’t even leave any lingering effects, at that) to a pre-meditated act of betrayal which will probably crush Jake’s life for at least 6 months. A friend of mine once told me that even though he would never hit a woman, sometimes he understood why a guy would want to. I think that fits this situation to a T. Jake is working overtime, from the story we have to assume this is not a regular thing, and he’ll go back to normal full-time soon. Suji decides that she really needs to be fucked RIGHT NOW so she cheats on him. There’s no way you can make an excuse for that but the exact words right before the slap could lead someone to understand why Jake did it. ---
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/33 "2010-12-19T08:24:43Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > Suji decides that she really needs to be fucked RIGHT NOW so she cheats on him. There’s no way you can make an excuse for that but the exact words right before the slap could lead someone to understand why Jake did it. Why does she need an excuse to have sex? Who cares, it’s her body–right? She’s allowed to be as selfish as she wants with it right? Even if she’s a selfish person, why is that her fault? If the other person isn’t happy with it, then they should leave. Jake spending money on her is a separate issue, isn’t it? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 8:41am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/34 "2010-12-19T08:41:22Z")
> [@Knigel](#): > > Why does she need an excuse to have sex? Who cares, it’s her body–right? She’s allowed to be as selfish as she wants with it right? Even if she’s a selfish person, why is that her fault? If the other person isn’t happy with it, then they should leave. Jake spending money on her is a separate issue, isn’t it? It’s her body but it’s _ **their** _ relationship. if she wants to change the rules of the relationship (or in this case, because she wants to be fucked RIGHT NOW) then she needs to tell Jake it’s over before beginning her career as a professional bar skank. So no, in this case, she is not allowed to be selfish because she’s not the only one in the relationship. If she isn’t happy, she’s the one that has to leave because Jake didn’t know there was a problem until she fucked some other guy. ---
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 9:00am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/35 "2010-12-19T09:00:35Z")
> [@Justin\_Bailey](#): > > It’s her body but it’s _ **their** _ relationship. if she wants to change the rules of the relationship (or in this case, because she wants to be fucked RIGHT NOW) then she needs to tell Jake it’s over before beginning her career as a professional bar skank. > > So no, in this case, she is not allowed to be selfish because she’s not the only one in the relationship. If she isn’t happy, she’s the one that has to leave because Jake didn’t know there was a problem until she fucked some other guy. It is polite if she tells Jake before she sleeps around; however, why would she need permission? Even if she had promised Jake that she wouldn’t have sex with other people, doesn’t she have the right to change her mind any time she wishes? It’s her body and her relationship to jeopardize. Jake could get angry and terminate the relationship; however, what else would dictate that sleeping around is not allowed? Is this universal law? I don’t know how a relationship automatically removes personal autonomy and free choice. I would propose that it isn’t a problem unless Suji mixes body fluids with Jake before waiting a long period and then getting a medical exam. That would then put Jake at physical risk. Justin, would you consider Suji a victim in the scenario? ---
**Author:** ![Crackrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Crackrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crackrat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 9:30am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/36 "2010-12-19T09:30:55Z")
> [@Knigel](#): > > It is polite if she tells Jake before she sleeps around; however, why would she need permission? Even if she had promised Jake that she wouldn’t have sex with other people, doesn’t she have the right to change her mind any time she wishes? It’s her body and her relationship to jeopardize. Jake could get angry and terminate the relationship; however, what else would dictate that sleeping around is not allowed? Is this universal law? I don’t know how a relationship automatically removes personal autonomy and free choice. Obviously Jake cares about monogamy in this relationship. They’ve been together for seven years, so why hasn’t she slept around before? Presumably they talked about being in an exclusive relationship. Do you believe that Suji was entirely unaware of the relationship consequences of her action? Do you think it is possible she was expecting Jake not to be upset? Relationships don’t automatically remove personal autonomy and free choice, but if you aren’t considering the feelings of your partner, then is it really a relationship? Note, I also think the slap was entirely out of line. Yes, being cheated on sucks, but that doesn’t justify assault. ---
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 9:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/37 "2010-12-19T09:49:14Z")
> [@Crackrat](#): > > Obviously Jake cares about monogamy in this relationship. They’ve been together for seven years, so why hasn’t she slept around before? Presumably they talked about being in an exclusive relationship. Do you believe that Suji was entirely unaware of the relationship consequences of her action? Do you think it is possible she was expecting Jake not to be upset? Relationships don’t automatically remove personal autonomy and free choice, but if you aren’t considering the feelings of your partner, then is it really a relationship? > > Note, I also think the slap was entirely out of line. Yes, being cheated on sucks, but that doesn’t justify assault. Your last point sums it up well. Suji’s attitude seems disrespectful to the relationship; however, that is her choice. She also did not force Jake to be in the relationship. If they make rules and break them, then that would be a breach of the contract of the relationship. Jake would then have a guilt-free reason to break up with her; however, he crosses the line when he hits her. That is the first thing done to someone else against their choice. People do selfish things and we have a choice to be around them or not; however, violence takes away other people’s choice. ---
**Author:** ![Crackrat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/919ad9/32.png) [@Crackrat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Crackrat)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/38 "2010-12-19T10:28:58Z")
> [@Knigel](#): > > …however, violence takes away other people’s choice. What choice does Suji not have anymore? Other than “not being slapped”, because that falls right in with “not being cheated on”. ---
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/39 "2010-12-19T10:35:29Z")
> [@Crackrat](#): > > What choice does Suji not have anymore? Other than “not being slapped”, because that falls right in with “not being cheated on”. Choice was a poor choice of words. I should have said personal autonomy or freedom. ---
**Author:** ![Knigel](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/bbe5ce/32.png) [@Knigel](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Knigel)\ **Post date:** [December 19, 2010, 11:01am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/40 "2010-12-19T11:01:10Z")
The reason I had initially used choice is because Jake has many options. Jake can do some mental kung fu. It is all in his head. Suji cheats on him; however, she has not done something ‘to’ him. Suji only controlled her own body and does not interfere directly with Jakes choices. He might not like it; however, he has to deal with it. By hitting Suji, Jake makes a direct assault on her and does indeed remove her choices. She can’t choose her emotions and how to handle with the situation, she is forced to feel pain by Jake. Jake could just say “Well, she cheated, I’m gonna go get some as well”. He still has many options. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684.md?page=3)