# Who carries the most blame in these three scenarios of sexual conflict? **URL:** \ **Category:** Great Debates\ **Created:** [December 19, 2010, 4:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684 "2010-12-19T04:20:21Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 16\ **Page:** 5
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 8:55am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/81 "2010-12-21T08:55:49Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > Finally a voice of reason. I was flabbergasted by other responses. You know, there were a bunch of people saying that a slap is a lot less worse than the affair. ---
**Author:** ![Carmady](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f04885/32.png) [@Carmady](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carmady)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 9:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/82 "2010-12-21T09:18:25Z")
In each case it is clear who carries the blame for the sexual conflict. 1. Taehoon - 100% (was dishonest and then complained about being believed) 2. John - 100% (a textbook example of rape) 3. Suji - 100% (getting angry at a cheater is not blameworthy) In each case there are also other things you could assign blame for. This is just the blame for the sexual conflict. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 12:10pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/83 "2010-12-21T12:10:30Z")
> [@septimus](#): > > A “slap” is an open-handed blow which stings for a few minutes but leaves no injury. Infidelity can inflict extremely painful emotional suffering, and is likely to destroy what, in the anecdote, seemed to be a very serious, if “common-law”, marriage. (As I said, we’d need to know what the monogamy agreement was in that relationship.) Nobody is saying that the infidelity is okay or less-bad than the slap. Of course infidelity is bad. That doesn’t change the fact that there is still basically no good reason to go around slapping people, no matter what low-down thing they did to provoke you. ---
**Author:** ![Gyrate](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/gyrate/32/3588_2.png) [@Gyrate](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Gyrate)\ **Post date:** [December 21, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/84 "2010-12-21T12:55:36Z")
In all three situations, the person to blame for 100% of the hypothetical harm that has come to all these hypothetical people is **Knigel** for writing the scenarios this way. (Hey, you wanted absurd.) Otherwise I agree with this: > [@don\_t\_ask](#): > > Hyemin is 100% to blame for getting too drunk and agreeing to go to the motel. Taehoon is 100% to blame for lying about his intentions and being a jerk. > > John is 100% a rapist. I don’t have sufficient information to know why Susanna is disinterested in sex and bickers every night but she is 100% responsible for doing so. > > Suji is 100% to blame for her infidelity. Jake is 100% to blame for his criminal battery. > > In every case because you and only you are responsible for all of your actions. The answer to the question “Who is to blame?” is meaningless without an understanding of **for what** blame is being assigned. The rape/attempted rape/assault? Facilitating the rape/attempted rape/assault? The whole joojooflop situation? If you leave the question vague, you can’t complain when we interpret it in our own individual ways. > [@G-SE](#): > > I’m going to answer from a Muslim perspective… > > 1. Hyemin -100% for going to a motel with a man who is not related to her. > > 2. Susanna - 100% for refusing sex to her husband. > > 3. Suji - 100% for being an obvious whore. Are you Muslim or are you just being “helpful”? ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:16pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/85 "2010-12-22T19:16:17Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > Nobody is saying that the infidelity is okay or less-bad than the slap. Of course infidelity is bad. > > That doesn’t change the fact that there is still basically no good reason to go around slapping people, no matter what low-down thing they did to provoke you. You don’t want me on the jury. The slap is nothing compared to the infidelity. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 22, 2010, 7:58pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/86 "2010-12-22T19:58:05Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > You don’t want me on the jury. The slap is nothing compared to the infidelity. I guess I don’t see the reason to compare them. If he had broken her kneecaps, that would still probably be less bad than infidelity in a long term relationship. That wouldn’t mean it’s okay to break her kneecaps though. Two wrongs don’t make a right. ---
**Author:** ![AClockworkMelon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/aclockworkmelon/32/10803_2.png) [@AClockworkMelon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AClockworkMelon)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 2:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/87 "2010-12-23T02:29:33Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > If he had broken her kneecaps, that would still probably be less bad than infidelity in a long term relationship. wat ---
**Author:** ![BwanaBob](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bwanabob/32/2985_2.png) [@BwanaBob](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BwanaBob)\ **Post date:** [December 23, 2010, 12:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/88 "2010-12-23T12:22:28Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > I guess I don’t see the reason to compare them. If he had broken her kneecaps, that would still probably be less bad than infidelity in a long term relationship. That wouldn’t mean it’s okay to break her kneecaps though. Two wrongs don’t make a right. No, I am strictly comparing a slap and infidelity. You cannot deduce the outcome of any other comparisons from my statement. Breaking kneecaps would not be an appropriate response. Nor would punches or beatings. And I’m not talking about a slap that loosens fillings either; such a thing is no longer a slap in my book. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 4:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/89 "2010-12-24T04:26:35Z")
> [@BwanaBob](#): > > No, I am strictly comparing a slap and infidelity. You cannot deduce the outcome of any other comparisons from my statement But why would we compare these things? ---
**Author:** ![Justin\_Bailey](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/justin_bailey/32/8792_2.png) [@Justin\_Bailey](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Justin_Bailey)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 12:56pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/90 "2010-12-24T12:56:06Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > But why would we compare these things? Because everyone else is. ---
**Author:** ![marshmallow](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/df705f/32.png) [@marshmallow](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/marshmallow)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 7:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/91 "2010-12-24T19:40:47Z")
If I went down to a police department and started to wave a gun around, fake or real, you could list some things that might be expected to happen. I could get shot. Tackled to the ground. Lots of yelling and screaming. I could die or suffer serious injury. If I live I’m going to jail or some sort of institution. It would be 100% my fault. If your spouse finds out you’re cheating you can make a similar list. Yelling, cursing. Items will be thrown or broken. Your valuables may be dumped out a window or ruined in some way. Doors will be slammed. A break up or divorce can be expected, although maybe they’ll get over it (but never forget). If your partner is particularly possessive they may want to kill you (more so men than women, but examples abound either way). Getting slapped across the face would be the least of your worries. If that’s all that happens you’re married to a saint. ---
**Author:** ![Freudian\_Slit](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/f/5daacb/32.png) [@Freudian\_Slit](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Freudian_Slit)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 8:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/92 "2010-12-24T20:32:27Z")
But waving a gun around at a police department resulting in you getting shot or arrested isn’t your fault just because it happens. It would be your fault because that’s an inherently dangerous thing to do. If your partner physically assaults you, it might be expected if he/she is scary possessive but that doesn’t mean it’s okay or even normal. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 24, 2010, 9:00pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/93 "2010-12-24T21:00:38Z")
The police have the right to shoot, tackle, etc. for self-defense and public protection. You do not have the right to slap people because they upset you. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 4:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/94 "2010-12-30T04:56:57Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > The police have the right to shoot, tackle, etc. for self-defense and public protection. > > You do not have the right to slap people because they upset you. Why do you continually downplay the cheating? Cheating does not result in someone just being upset. It is essentially psychological trauma. It’s been indicated many times that most people would rather be slapped than cheated on. The fact that you somehow think that all physical pain is worse than mental pain is the anomaly here. And, no, you don’t get around that by claiming that they aren’t comparable. You are comparing them, or you wouldn’t need to downplay one of them. I can also look at this another way, if you find the above unconcincing. You don’t have the right to slap any more than you have the right to cheat. But it is understandable that the latter would precipitate the former. People tend to do wrong things in the heat of the moment. The more wronged they feel, the more wrong the action. There is no such heat of the moment rationalization for the woman: it takes premeditation to do what she did. She didn’t accidentally cheat. And this isn’t even factoring in the relative pain caused by these actions. It’s entirely based on whether the wrong was premeditated. There’s a reason why premeditated murder is a more serious crime than voluntary manslaughter. Or, if I use the legal terms, the slap was provoked\*–the infidelity was not. \*Wikipedia’s [Manslaughter](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Manslaughter#Voluntary_manslaughter) article defines provocation as requiring an action caused by understandable passions, and no time for the passions to wear off. Even if the woman had the first, she had ample time for the second to not apply. ---
**Author:** ![Trepa\_Mayfield](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/edb3f5/32.png) [@Trepa\_Mayfield](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Trepa_Mayfield)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 7:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/95 "2010-12-30T07:10:30Z")
I’m still wondering what elaborate metaphor these hypothetical situations are supposed to be. ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [December 30, 2010, 7:21am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684/96 "2010-12-30T07:21:08Z")
> [@BigT](#): > > I can also look at this another way, if you find the above unconcincing. You don’t have the right to slap any more than you have the right to cheat. But it is understandable that the latter would precipitate the former. People tend to do wrong things in the heat of the moment. The more wronged they feel, the more wrong the action. There is no such heat of the moment rationalization for the woman: it takes premeditation to do what she did. She didn’t accidentally cheat. I don’t think we are in disagreement. Slapping people is wrong. I slapped someone who cheated on me once. I was wrong. I should not have reacted with violence. I think it’s obvious that everyone know that cheating is wrong, so I didn’t really comment on that part. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-carries-the-most-blame-in-these-three-scenarios-of-sexual-conflict/564684.md?page=4)