# Who changed the pronunciation of Niger? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 9, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309 "2005-08-09T18:17:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 2
**Author:** ![Mister\_Rik](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mister_rik/32/491_2.png) [@Mister\_Rik](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mister_Rik)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 10:02pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/21 "2005-08-09T22:02:49Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > cache: should be pronounced “CASH”, but lots of people here say “cash-AY” > > forte: should be pronounced “FORT”, but I always hear “fort-AY” “cash-AY” is the pronunciation for another actual word: “cachet” which, according to Webster, means, “1: a seal used esp. as a mark of offical approval; 2: a feature or quality conferring prestige; 3: a design, inscription, or advertisement printed on or stamped on mail” Again, Webster gives “for-TAY” as a legitimate alternate pronunciation. And of course, “forte” meaning “loud” as musical instruction is correctly pronounced for-TAY. All of my music teachers said “FOR-tay”, though. Also, _cachet_ is French while _forte_ is Italian, and different rules apply 🙂 ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 10:18pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/22 "2005-08-09T22:18:35Z")
> [@Phase42](#): > > Also, _cachet_ is French while _forte_ is Italian, and different rules apply 🙂 It’s French, too; both words share the same Latin root, _fortis_. We can quibble about which language the English usage is primarily borrowed from, but consider the context in which I would say one usually hears the word in English: “Pronunciation is not my forte.” Here the term is used as a noun, as it is in French, to mean an area in which one excels. The Italian word is a musical term used to indicate the manner in which a passage of music should be performed, either as an adjective or an adverb: “This passage is to be played forte.” I would submit that, in English, one most often hears the word used as a noun, which clearly borrows from the French. In fact, I can only recall hearing the word used as an adjective or adverb in the context of music. ---
**Author:** ![Sequent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/dbc845/32.png) [@Sequent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sequent)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 10:28pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/23 "2005-08-09T22:28:39Z")
I should also point out that the French word can be used as an adjective or adverb in addition to being used as a noun. ---
**Author:** ![Ezstrete](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/7ea924/32.png) [@Ezstrete](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Ezstrete)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 10:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/24 "2005-08-09T22:36:46Z")
> [@Pjen](#): > > Nijer has always been Nee-jzher according to the BBC, and Nigeria has always been Nai-geeria. Niger as in Nai-jer is a US mispronunciation. I assume you mean mispronunciation as in the UK “Jay kweeze” for Jaques and “Jag yOU -are” for jaguar. Remember -----Neezhair is the french pronunciation of an applied word for a country[area]that was there before they horned in! EZ ---
**Author:** ![Jake](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/j/f475e1/32.png) [@Jake](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Jake)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 10:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/25 "2005-08-09T22:37:29Z")
> [@Squink](#): > > Uranus strikes back! > > **Rayne Man** , was Nigeria also pronounced nee-ZHAIRia? Squink, you know it’s pronounced UrANUS. Otherwise it would be dirty. Not UR-anus of course. 😉 ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 11:34pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/26 "2005-08-09T23:34:26Z")
I read somewhere that the name of the river Niger, which gave its name to the 2 nations, although apparently from the Latin word for black, since black people lived there, similar to the name Sudan from the Arabic word meaning ‘black peoples’, the name Niger is really derived from a phrase in the Berber language Tamashek of the Touareg, native to the upper Niger River. Something about flowing water, IIRC. I really wish I knew Berber. There’s practically no school that teaches it, let alone finding good study materials on it. I’m Sicilian, so I undoubtedly have Berber ancestors from North Africa. Sicilians are African-Americans in a sense, you know. Spike Lee proved that to John Turturro in _Do the Right Thing_. Dennis Hopper was murdered by Christopher Walken in a sudden fit of rage in _True Romance_ for saying the same thing. _Dice che i siciliani erano generati da neri_. Ha ha. _BANG! BANG!_ Where’s the Moroccan gentleman who used to post here? Haven’t seen him around since it went pay. Maybe he could help out with some Berber vocabulary. I’ll tell you what’s confusing. The adjectival form, what you call people from that country. Nigerian was already taken. What’s left? People from Niger are called Nigérien, essentially the exact same word, only in French. _Mais hélas_, one despairs of ever getting Yanks to pronounce the French uvular _r_, let alone the final nasalized vowel. _Faute de mieux_, I imagine its pronunciation would be adapted to be American Anglophones’ phonemic capabilities, while still being able to be told apart from “Nigerian.” Nee-zhair-i@n as opposed to Nai-jeer-i@n. _N’est-ce pas_? ---
**Author:** ![Sal\_Ammoniac](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/8dc957/32.png) [@Sal\_Ammoniac](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Sal_Ammoniac)\ **Post date:** [August 9, 2005, 11:44pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/27 "2005-08-09T23:44:41Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I’ll tell you what’s confusing. The adjectival form, what you call people from that country. Nigerian was already taken. What’s left? People from Niger are called Nigérien, essentially the exact same word, only in French. _Mais hélas_, one despairs of ever getting Yanks to pronounce the French uvular _r_, let alone the final nasalized vowel. _Faute de mieux_, I imagine its pronunciation would be adapted to be American Anglophones’ phonemic capabilities, while still being able to be told apart from “Nigerian.” Nee-zhair-i@n as opposed to Nai-jeer-i@n. _N’est-ce pas_? The saving grace is that apart from the odd famine or misadventure involving uranium, no one ever need talk about the place. And for those rare occasions when you _do_ need to, you can always go straight for circulocution: “People from Niger,” instead of “Nigeriens.” ---
**Author:** ![m311](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/ac8455/32.png) [@m311](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/m311)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 10:24am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/28 "2010-07-22T10:24:56Z")
James Strongs Concordance on the King James Bible pronounces this word as Nee ger it is not ni jer or any other false doctrine if you want to know any words of the Bible purchase Strong’s concordance for the Bible and get a old dictionary say in the 1882-1950 you will also find the word nigger as meaning any member of a dark skin race case closed ---
**Author:** ![amanset](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@amanset](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/amanset)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 10:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/29 "2010-07-22T10:35:32Z")
> [@Ezstrete](#): > > I assume you mean mispronunciation as in the UK “Jay kweeze” for Jaques Well as a Brit that’s a new one for me. I honestly don’t think I have ever heard it. Jaguar I’ll give you though. Let’s face it, all languages pronounce words from other languages right. For every “jaguar” in the US there’s a “smörgåsbord”. For every “Niger” in the UK there’s a “jaguar”. There’s no real rhyme or reason for it. It just happens. We’re all crap. Together. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 11:18am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/30 "2010-07-22T11:18:34Z")
> [@m311](#): > > James Strongs Concordance on the King James Bible pronounces this word as > Nee ger it is not ni jer or any other false doctrine > if you want to know any words of the Bible purchase Strong’s concordance for the Bible > and get a old dictionary say in the 1882-1950 > > you will also find the word nigger as meaning any member of a dark skin race > case closed Which is irrelevant to the question of how to pronounce the name of a former French colony which became an independent country in 1960. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 11:33am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/31 "2010-07-22T11:33:32Z")
> [@m311](#): > > James Strongs Concordance on the King James Bible pronounces this word as > Nee ger it is not ni jer or any other false doctrine I’m very confused. You bumped a five-year-old thread to make this post but you left out a lot of information. What makes James Strong a reliable source on this? Why do you prefer a dictionary from the late 19th or early 20th century? Dictionaries are guides to current use. You also seem to be under the impression that one person can declare what a word means. That’s not how it works. Words acquire their meaning based on how people used them. ---
**Author:** ![DrFidelius](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/drfidelius/32/3447_2.png) [@DrFidelius](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/DrFidelius)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 11:47am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/32 "2010-07-22T11:47:21Z")
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather a scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean—neither more nor less.” Regardless, a definitive statement of how the word is to be pronounced when encountered in Acts 13:1 of the KJV is, as I said, irrelevant to the pronounciation of the country’s name. ---
**Author:** ![Colophon](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/f05b48/32.png) [@Colophon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Colophon)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:06pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/33 "2010-07-22T12:06:00Z")
> [@amanset](#): > > Well as a Brit that’s a new one for me. I honestly don’t think I have ever heard it. Me neither. The surname “Jaques” or “Jacques” is pronounced “Jakes”. On Googling it, I find that the character from _As You Like It_ is apparently sometimes pronounced “Jakeys” or even “Jay-quease”. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:14pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/34 "2010-07-22T12:14:15Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The same reason we say “Belarus” instead of “White Ruthenia,” “Moldova” instead of “Moldavia” (or “Bessarabia”), “Thailand” instead of “Siam,” “Iran” instead of “Persia,” and “Myanmar” instead of “Burma.” The media seem to believe that it’s incorrect to have an English name or pronunciation of a place name that’s different from one that is used by natives. Persia/Iran and Burma/Myanmar represent actual official changes in the countries’ names, not different terminologies in different places. ---
**Author:** ![Marley23](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Marley23](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Marley23)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:20pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/35 "2010-07-22T12:20:51Z")
Burma vs. Myanmar is a little more complicated than some of the others, which are just straightforward name changes made after the countries gained independence. That country’s name was changed when the military dictatorship took over in 1989 and some people and organizations won’t call the country Myanmar because they don’t want to acknowledge that government. According to Wikipedia there is also this issue: > [@](#): > > The name “Burma” has been in use in English since the time of British colonial rule. > […] > Various non-Burman ethnic groups choose to not recognise the name because the term Myanmar has historically been used as a label for the majority ethnic group, the Bamar, rather than for the country. ---
**Author:** ![Peremensoe](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/ce7236/32.png) [@Peremensoe](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Peremensoe)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/36 "2010-07-22T12:24:54Z")
> [@Marley23](#): > > That country’s name was changed when the military dictatorship took over in 1989 and some people and organizations won’t call the country Myanmar because they don’t want to acknowledge that government. Sure. You can say “Burma” for the physical country and “Myanmar” for the regime, if you want to make a point of it. But it’s not a matter of language or location of the speaker; there was a _change_. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:31pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/37 "2010-07-22T12:31:57Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > How should we choose amongst Suisse, die Schweiz, and Svizzera? _Confederatio Helvetica_, of course. With an ablative absolute. ---
**Author:** ![Cagey\_Drifter](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/b2d939/32.png) [@Cagey\_Drifter](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cagey_Drifter)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 12:49pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/38 "2010-07-22T12:49:26Z")
guys, can’t you see that these di-viss-ive posts are tearing us apart? ---
**Author:** ![Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/earl_snake-hips_tucker/32/3269_2.png) [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Earl_Snake-Hips_Tucker)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 1:42pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/39 "2010-07-22T13:42:53Z")
> [@Johanna](#): > > I read somewhere that the name of the river Niger. . . is really derived from a phrase in the Berber language Tamashek of the Touareg, native to the upper Niger River. Something about flowing water, IIRC. This is so plausible that it should be true. Any luck in confirming this in the five years since this thread was active? ---
**Author:** ![The\_Controvert](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/t/dec6dc/32.png) [@The\_Controvert](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/The_Controvert)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:11pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/40 "2010-07-22T14:11:35Z")
When I need to say it, I pronounce that country’s name as “Enword”, just to be safe. This also solves the adjectival form; a person from Enword is an Enwordian. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309.md?page=1) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309.md?page=3)