# Who changed the pronunciation of Niger? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 9, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309 "2005-08-09T18:17:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 3
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/41 "2010-07-22T14:12:55Z")
> [@spark240](#): > > Persia/Iran and Burma/Myanmar represent actual official changes in the countries’ names, not different terminologies in different places. I don’t accept that a government’s designation of an “official” name should be taken as some kind of imperative for everyone in the world to follow. It’s merely a data point equal to any other data point on usage. Inter-governmental uses must follow such conventions for diplomatic purposes and of course a government gets to instruct its own employees on usage. But the independent news media shouldn’t consider official name changes to necessarily be definitive, and if the difference is merely between a historically English language form and a historically native language form, then English language media should prefer the former. ---
**Author:** ![Hampshire](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hampshire/32/4887_2.png) [@Hampshire](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hampshire)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:22pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/42 "2010-07-22T14:22:46Z")
I loved Bill Mahr’s joke from some time ago when he said the original name for Joseph Wilson’s Op-Ed piece “What I didn’t find in Africa” (enriched uranium bought by Iraq) was “Ny-ger please”. ---
**Author:** ![orcenio](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/orcenio/32/1036_2.png) [@orcenio](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/orcenio)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/43 "2010-07-22T14:24:06Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > **I don’t accept that a government’s designation of an “official” name should be taken as some kind of imperative for everyone in the world to follow.** It’s merely a data point equal to any other data point on usage. Inter-governmental uses must follow such conventions for diplomatic purposes and of course a government gets to instruct its own employees on usage. But the independent news media shouldn’t consider official name changes to necessarily be definitive, and if the difference is merely between a historically English language form and a historically native language form, then English language media should prefer the former. (bolding mine) Fine, but from now on I shall call you **ixnay**. 😛 ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 22, 2010, 2:39pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/44 "2010-07-22T14:39:25Z")
Feel free. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 10:49am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/45 "2010-07-24T10:49:36Z")
> [@acsenray](#): > > The same reason we say “Belarus” instead of “White Ruthenia,” “Moldova” instead of “Moldavia” (or “Bessarabia”), “Thailand” instead of “Siam,” “Iran” instead of “Persia,” and “Myanmar” instead of “Burma.” The media seem to believe that it’s incorrect to have an English name or pronunciation of a place name that’s different from one that is used by natives. I keep having to say this. No Thai calls it Siam. The name was changed officially from Siam to Prathet Thai (Thailand) in June 1939, then changed back to Siam at the end of WWII, then back to Thailand again in 1949. If any Westerner were to come here and keep referring to the place as Siam, the locals would think he’s a loon. ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 12:55pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/46 "2010-07-24T12:55:06Z")
That’s not really relevant for my point. ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 1:32pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/47 "2010-07-24T13:32:32Z")
I don’t mind people using the native pronunciation, but it gets pretentious when you try to affect an accent. Use English phonemes. If I hear the rolled or back R at the end, that’s too far. I just wouldn’t prounounce it NIGH-jer, because it sounds too much like Nigh-JEER-ree-uh. ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [July 24, 2010, 5:27pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/48 "2010-07-24T17:27:41Z")
> [@Sal\_Ammoniac](#): > > Well, I used to live in Niger, and we always pronounced it… nee-ZHAIR. As everybody here has pointed out, that’s because Niger is a French-speaking country, and that’s how the name is pronounced there. NYE-jer is also correct for anglophone countries, and that’s typically how the name of the river is pronounced. My own experience here is that if you say NYE-jer, people think you’re talking about Nigeria. With nee-ZHAIR, you avoid that problem (and run against the opposite problem, namely that people have never heard of it). “Oh, I used to live in Niger,” he said as he sat on the chair. “If I lived in Nigeria, I might catch diphtheria, So I just stayed the hell out of there.” 😃 ---
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [July 25, 2010, 8:54am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/49 "2010-07-25T08:54:45Z")
Anglophone Africans generally use the French pronunciation of place names, which are often Frenchified versions of the the original place name. People in Nigeria, Cameroon, Ghana, etc. probably say “Ni-ZHAIR.” Certainly any English speaker actually working closely with Niger (aid workers, embassy staff, etc.) is going to be moving back and forth between French and English and will default to the French version because it gets silly calling a single place two different names. So “Ni-ZHAIR” has probably been used in English for quite some time, just not with people you’d hear from. A few decades ago, few people in the West would ever have any contact with Niger or anyone involved with Niger, so they probably just used the English phonetic pronunciation and next-to-nobody knew the difference. Now we live in a more connected world and we can actually here from people living in and working with Niger on a regular basis if we choose. We are starting to hear the “Ni-ZHAIR” version from Africans and people working in and with Niger, so it is starting to stick. Randomly using English pronunciation for French place names often doesn’t make any sense. For example, my Cameroonian village was called Guider, pronounced “GHEE-dhair.” In reality, “GHEE-dhair” was a French attempt at the local name “Ghee-DAR.” Anyway, I’m sure some hardcore English-speakers would argue it should be pronouced “GUY-der.” I think you can see why that’d be pretty silly- the French version is relatively close to the local name and it makes reasonable sense to use it. ---
**Author:** ![Precambrianmollusc](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/precambrianmollusc/32/63_2.png) [@Precambrianmollusc](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Precambrianmollusc)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 2:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/50 "2010-07-26T02:51:21Z")
> [@Polycarp](#): > > > [@acsenray](#): > > > > How should we choose amongst Suisse, die Schweiz, and Svizzera? > > _Confederatio Helvetica_, of course. With an ablative absolute. Well finally the CH on the back of swiss cars makes sense! It’s been one of those slightly puzzling , but coundn’t be arsed to find out things that has been, well, puzzling me slightly for a while. Yayyyy for zombie threads. ---
**Author:** ![Markxxx](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/5daacb/32.png) [@Markxxx](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Markxxx)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 5:28am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/51 "2010-07-26T05:28:47Z")
But does everyone do this consistantly. In order to justify pronouncing it as the French do they would also have to pronounce every former French colony that way. Or at least the former French colonies with French as their official language How do they say French Guiana? Central African Republic? Gabon? Sengal? etc etc etc ---
**Author:** ![UDS](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/u/ecae2f/32.png) [@UDS](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/UDS)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 6:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/52 "2010-07-26T06:20:49Z")
When you’re in a French-speaking place, it helps to pronounce the names of local people and places as they are pronounced by locals, even when speaking English. That way your are more likely to be understood by locals. Same goes for any other language. So English-speakers in Gabon, Senegal, etc would be well advised to use the locally-familiar pronounciation, and presumably they do. In the case of Niger, the local pronunciation has probably achieved wider currency because of its value, already noted, in avoiding confusion with Nigeria. ---
**Author:** ![Khaki\_Campbell](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/9de053/32.png) [@Khaki\_Campbell](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Khaki_Campbell)\ **Post date:** [July 26, 2010, 8:46am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/53 "2010-07-26T08:46:20Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > vous n’avez pas (VOO nah-VAY PAS) > vou **s** avez (VOO **Z** ah-VAY) What’s that obsession with writing in caps ? In French, we have no stressed syllable. ---
**Author:** ![what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/w/a5b964/32.png) [@what\_do\_I\_type\_here](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/what_do_I_type_here)\ **Post date:** [July 27, 2010, 6:36pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/54 "2010-07-27T18:36:38Z")
> [@m311](#): > > James Strongs Concordance on the King James Bible pronounces this word as > Nee ger it is not ni jer or any other false doctrine > if you want to know any words of the Bible purchase Strong’s concordance for the Bible > and get a old dictionary say in the 1882-1950 > > you will also find the word nigger as meaning any member of a dark skin race > case closed What does the bible say about necromancy? ---
**Author:** ![BigT](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/bigt/32/12044_2.png) [@BigT](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/BigT)\ **Post date:** [July 29, 2010, 7:17am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/55 "2010-07-29T07:17:21Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > vous n’avez pas (VOO nah-VAY PAS) > vou **s** avez (VOO **Z** ah-VAY) > [@Khaki\_Campbell](#): > > What’s that obsession with writing in caps ? In French, we have no stressed syllable. It still has the tonic accent, but that would be better indicated as VOO nah vay PAH. I’m not exactly sure the vous is accented, but I do always hear it that way. ---
**Author:** ![Kirk\_Gunn](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/df705f/32.png) [@Kirk\_Gunn](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Kirk_Gunn)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 9:10am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/56 "2011-09-07T09:10:44Z")
Okay, okay, okay! Everybody’s making the argument for using the _French_ pronunciation of “Niger”, because Niger was once a French colony/protectorate. However, for years, even though it was still a French former colony, the English pronunciation “NIGH-jur” was used and no one thought anything of it. And we get some sort of lame explanation of why the first two syllables of the nation “Nigeria” is still pronounced as it always has been: “NIGH-GEER-ee-ah” – because it was a _British_ colony. However, the French have always pronounced Nigeria as “Nee-zhair-ee-ah”, despite the British connection. I have another explanation: one of my sister’s 4th Grade students, a little immigrant girl from India, came to her desk, pointed to Niger on the globe, and innocently, but deductively, asked (paraphrased) if Niger was the country where “N-word” people came from. My sister explained about the inappropriateness of the “n-word”, and also explained that most African nations are populated with “black” Africans. The young student was satisfied. I suspect strongly that the recent switch in pronunciation from the British style to the French style (NI-jer to Nee-zhair) came about because of an inaccurate perception as to a connection between skin color and the name of the country. For others in this forum to ignore the obvious “elephant in the room” is disingenuous and discourages open and frank discussion of sensitive situations. Let me give a good example of why a reversion from the British pronunciation (Ni-jer) to the French pronunciation of Niger (Nee-zhair) is unlikely to be what others in this forum say the reason is: If it were true that we were just following French pronunciation for place names, then the city of Montreal would be pronounced “Moh-ray-AWL”, Paris would be pronounced “Pair-EE”, and the country of France would be now pronounced as “Frawnse”. The American city of New Orleans would be known as “New Ohr-lee-AWNS”, et cetera. So, please – don’t sweep unpleasantness under the politically-correct carpet, but come right out and say, "Niger is pronounced nowadays as “Nee-zhair”, because it sounds too much like an intolerable racial slur name, the “N-word”. Let us be honest in the education of our children and the re-education of ourselves, for pity’s sake! ---
**Author:** ![psychonaut](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/psychonaut/32/4655_2.png) [@psychonaut](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/psychonaut)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 10:42am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/57 "2011-09-07T10:42:15Z")
> [@Kirk\_Gunn](#): > > So, please – don’t sweep unpleasantness under the politically-correct carpet, but come right out and say, "Niger is pronounced nowadays as “Nee-zhair”, because it sounds too much like an intolerable racial slur name, the “N-word”. > > Let us be honest in the education of our children and the re-education of ourselves, for pity’s sake! /ˈnaɪdʒəɹ/ sounds about as much like /ˈnɪgəɹ/ as /niːˈʒɛəɹ/ does. If the name was changed to sound less like “nigger”, then the action can be deemed a resounding failure. ---
**Author:** ![anson2995](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/c77e96/32.png) [@anson2995](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/anson2995)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 1:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/58 "2011-09-07T13:12:58Z")
Double zombie. ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 7:24pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/59 "2011-09-07T19:24:24Z")
> [@Sunspace](#): > > Yes, **Sequent** , you’re right. Ni-ZHAIR would be ‘Nigère’ in properly-spelt French. > > And as for the verb ‘niger’: > _je niges > tu niges > il/elle nit_ > nous nigeons > vous nigez > ils/elles nigents\* 😃 > > [sub]\*I couldn’t figure out what to do here[/sub] I know you posted that more than six years ago (ah, back when we were young ;)) but if “niger” is a regular French verb of the first group (a valid assumption for any made-up verb), the conjugation is the following: _je nige tu niges il nige nous nigeons vous nigez ils nigent_. And the verb is pronounced [niʒ] at all three singular persons, as well as the third person plural. First person plural is [niʒ~ɔ] and second person plural is [niʒe], so unless you have to write, you only have three verb forms to remember. Well, for regular first-group verbs anyway. And yes, the ‘r’ is present in the French pronunciation of “Niger”. It’s true that French words ending with -er tend to be pronounced with [e], but this isn’t a word of French origin. ---
**Author:** ![cjepson](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/a9adbd/32.png) [@cjepson](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cjepson)\ **Post date:** [September 7, 2011, 8:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/60 "2011-09-07T20:12:32Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > I still think it’s due to the American habit of vocalizing the last letter of any French word, whether it should be vocalized or not. > > cache: should be pronounced “CASH”, but lots of people here say “cash-AY” > > forte: should be pronounced “FORT”, but I always hear “fort-AY” And people used to pronounce coupe “coo-PAY”… I think that’s pretty much died out, though. Ah well, enough of this… I’m off to Caff Society. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309.md?page=2) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309.md?page=4)