# Who changed the pronunciation of Niger? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [August 9, 2005, 6:17pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309 "2005-08-09T18:17:07Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 4
**Author:** ![even\_sven](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/e/dfb087/32.png) [@even\_sven](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/even_sven)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 5:06am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/61 "2011-09-08T05:06:47Z")
An old zombie, but why not? My point, many years ago, was: [ol] [li]Pretty much single person working in or with Niger on a regular basis says “Nee-Zhair.” This comes from the French way of saying it, but really, the origin isn’t that important- it’s not about French as the language of French people, but more about French as the main official language of Niger. What’s important is that diplomats, aid workers, miners, actual real-life Nigereans, etc. all say “Nee-Zhair.” It’s just a lot easier than code-switching all the time. French and English are close enough that if two Anglophones speak a lot of French all the time, they will often end up speaking Franglais even to each other. So among people involved in Niger, “Nee-Zhair” rules. [/li][li]Niger isn’t exactly an international superstar, and there are only a few communities of Westerners working in or with Niger. These people used to be pretty hard to come by in the media, probably because they were in Niger. Because of globalization, increased mobility, availability of cell phones and internet, and generally more information, commentary about Niger is coming from people who actually work in or with Niger rather than random news readers who couldn’t locate the place on a map. We are hearing more and more from the experts.[/li][li]So the “in the know” version is becoming prominent. [/li][/ol] ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/62 "2011-09-08T07:02:04Z")
> [@Earl\_Snake-Hips\_Tucker](#): > > This is so plausible that it should be true. Any luck in confirming this in the five years since this thread was active? Looks like it’s been [confirmed](http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Niger_River#Etymology). “The Niger is called… _Egerew n-Igerewen_ ‘river of rivers’ in Tuareg … The likeliest possibility is an alteration, by influence of Latin _niger_ ‘black’, of the Tuareg name _egerew nigerewen_, which is used along the middle reaches of the river around Timbuktu.” ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/63 "2011-09-08T07:20:39Z")
> [@even\_sven](#): > > An old zombie, but why not? Some zombies age with grace I hear. > [@even\_sven](#): > > Pretty much single person working in or with Niger on a regular basis says “Nee-Zhair.” This comes from the French way of saying it, but really, the origin isn’t that important- it’s not about French as the language of French people, but more about French as the main official language of Niger. What’s important is that diplomats, aid workers, miners, actual real-life Nigereans, etc. all say “Nee-Zhair.” Just a question, why would you say the (soft)G sound as a Z ? I’m pretty sure it’s Nigeriens, even in English. P.S: when I was living in Nigeria, now more than twenty years ago, I seem to remember Nigerians themselves said Niger (that is exactly like Nigeria, but without the -ia). Maybe it has changed there as well. ---
**Author:** ![Johanna](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johanna/32/8318_2.png) [@Johanna](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johanna)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:29am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/64 "2011-09-08T07:29:40Z")
Non, mon capitaine, c’est pas z. In English we use the digraph \ to represent the sound of /ʒ/ (French j). By analogy with \ for /ʃ/. ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:32am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/65 "2011-09-08T07:32:03Z")
Ha ok, had not understood that \*\*even sven \*\*was using phonetics. Had forgotten half the board seems to have a degree in linguistics ;). ---
**Author:** ![MarcusF](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/67e7ee/32.png) [@MarcusF](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/MarcusF)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 7:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/66 "2011-09-08T07:43:32Z")
Well - as it has been resurrected! > [@Pjen](#): > > Nijer has always been Nee-jzher according to the BBC, and Nigeria has always been Nai-geeria. Niger as in Nai-jer is a US mispronunciation. The BBC may always have used the pseudo-French pronounciation but some Victorians didn’t: > [@](#): > > 'There was a young lady of Niger > Who smiled as she rode on a Tiger; > They came back from the ride > With the lady inside, > And the smile on the face of the Tiger. > > Cosmo Monkhouse (1840-1901), ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 9:16am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/67 "2011-09-08T09:16:07Z")
Just to note I parodied the Monkhouse limerick in an earlier resurrection of this metazombie. I don’t think it’s ever been mentioned _why_ the French is somewhat preferred – the countries which were formerly part of French West Africa (Senegal, Guinea, Mali, Cote d’Ivoire, Burkina Faso, Niger, Mauretania, Benin, and Togo) or of French Equatorial Africa (Chad, Gabon, Cameroon, C.A.R., and the Brazzaville Congo) continue to use French to varying degrees as a lingua franca between them and in some cases between member cultures within them. I suspect it would be very easy to overstate how much this still is done, but to say it is to some extent is not incorrect. Final point: it is simply a matter of courtesy to refer to a country, city, etc., by its own preferred name in English – which may or may not be its indigenous or official-language name. To cite a couple of examples from the list above, Cote d’Ivoire is insistent that it not be termed “Ivory Coast”, but the Republque Africaine Centrale is quite happy to have Anglophones call it the Central African Republic. In contradistinction from the French/English examples, the former Upper Volta is fairly insistent that its name is Burkina Faso, no matter the language of the person identifying it. ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 9:52am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/68 "2011-09-08T09:52:32Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > Just a question, why would you say the (soft)G sound as a Z ? > I’m pretty sure it’s Nigeriens, even in English. Phew, you just saved me from a potential VERY awkward situation ---
**Author:** ![Capitaine\_Zombie](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/e95f7d/32.png) [@Capitaine\_Zombie](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Capitaine_Zombie)\ **Post date:** [September 8, 2011, 3:53pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/69 "2011-09-08T15:53:39Z")
> [@Namkcalb](#): > > Phew, you just saved me from a potential VERY awkward situation As you quoted two sentences, I cant tell which one you’re refering to (I also cant tell if that’s a whoosh). Care to elaborate? ---
**Author:** ![Namkcalb](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/n/c89c15/32.png) [@Namkcalb](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Namkcalb)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 6:37am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/70 "2011-09-10T06:37:13Z")
> [@Capitaine\_Zombie](#): > > As you quoted two sentences, I cant tell which one you’re refering to (I also cant tell if that’s a whoosh). Care to elaborate? You taught me “Nigeriens” was the plural for people from Niger. I don’t want to say what I was worried it was ---
**Author:** ![Acsenray](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/acsenray/32/4519_2.png) [@Acsenray](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Acsenray)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 1:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/71 "2011-09-10T13:29:57Z")
Since we’re getting all Frenchified, shouldn’t it be “Nigeroises”? ---
**Author:** ![Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/hypnagogic_jerk/32/4252_2.png) [@Hypnagogic\_Jerk](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Hypnagogic_Jerk)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 5:38pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/72 "2011-09-10T17:38:57Z")
No, “Nigérien” is the French word for an inhabitant of Niger. “Nigérois” would be another plausible word, but in this case it’s not the correct one. “Nigéroise” would be the feminine form (of this inexistant word). ---
**Author:** ![Polycarp](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/82dd89/32.png) [@Polycarp](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Polycarp)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 6:13pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/73 "2011-09-10T18:13:32Z")
_Le mot N-ois(e)?_ 😃 ---
**Author:** ![Malacandra](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/m/45deac/32.png) [@Malacandra](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Malacandra)\ **Post date:** [September 10, 2011, 6:29pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/74 "2011-09-10T18:29:57Z")
> [@MarcusF](#): > > Well - as it has been resurrected! > > The BBC may always have used the pseudo-French pronounciation but some Victorians didn’t: Indeed. “Yes I love to see a tiger from the Congo or the Niger, and especially when lashing of his tail” - W.S. Gilbert, “There is beauty in the bellow”, _The Mikado_. But then Gilbert perpetrated some consciously awful rhymes (“caravanserai”, “Chancery” to name but one), not to mention his offences against natural history. 😃 ---
**Author:** ![KisaVal](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/k/f08c70/32.png) [@KisaVal](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/KisaVal)\ **Post date:** [October 21, 2017, 7:33pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/75 "2017-10-21T19:33:20Z")
I agree it is pronounced Nee zhair. But then what becomes of the limerick? There was a young lady of Niger Who smiled as she rode on a tiger; They returned from the ride With the lady inside, And the smile on the face of the tiger. As for Sage Rat’s post about pronouncing final C, R, F, and L - it is a useful guideline. But there many exceptions. There are no rules in language, only descriptions and little devices to help us remember what people say and write. ---
**Author:** ![Siam\_Sam](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/d78d45/32.png) [@Siam\_Sam](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Siam_Sam)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 7:26am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/76 "2017-10-22T07:26:07Z")
Nigerien zombies! ---
**Author:** ![JoseB](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/joseb/32/1530_2.png) [@JoseB](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/JoseB)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 7:38am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/77 "2017-10-22T07:38:20Z")
> [@KisaVal](#): > > I agree it is pronounced Nee zhair. But then what becomes of the limerick? > There was a young lady of Niger > Who smiled as she rode on a tiger; > They returned from the ride > With the lady inside, > And the smile on the face of the tiger. Already mentioned in post #66, more than 6 years ago ^.^ ---
**Author:** ![AI\_Proofreader](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/a/8dc957/32.png) [@AI\_Proofreader](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/AI_Proofreader)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 7:51am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/78 "2017-10-22T07:51:24Z")
Interesting thread. Waiting to chuckle the first time the President messes up and adds an extra “g” to the pronunciation… ---
**Author:** ![PatrickLondon](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/patricklondon/32/4422_2.png) [@PatrickLondon](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/PatrickLondon)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 8:44am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/79 "2017-10-22T08:44:35Z")
> [@Sequent](#): > > Typically, the final “r” isn’t vocalized, is it? Whereas the pronounciation I keep hearing (nee-ZHAIRE), would only make sense if the country’s name was actually spelled “Nigere” instead of “Niger.” Quite often it is: “cher” is one word that comes immediately to mind. I suspect the difference may be that ER=AY would sound like the infinitive of a verb. But this is one area where French pronunciation and spelling aren’t entirely regular. ---
**Author:** ![Mijin](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/mijin/32/9369_2.png) [@Mijin](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Mijin)\ **Post date:** [October 22, 2017, 9:23am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309/80 "2017-10-22T09:23:05Z")
> [@Acsenray](#): > > So far as I’m concerned, it’s perfectly legitimate for names of places to be different in different languages. > > Pretty soon we’re going to have to start saying Hrvatska (Croatia), Deutschland, Suomi (Finland), Bharat (India), Espana, Italia, etc., because Anglicised names are just not acceptable. How should we choose amongst Suisse, die Schweiz, and Svizzera? I think it’s legitimate, but I also think if we’re going to pick any pronunciation then just going with the native one is simplest. If you try to anglicize the name in many cases the pronunciation still won’t be obvious anyway (unless we just throw out the original name completely and call it something like Night Air or something :)) So for somewhere like Niger, where most English-speakers wouldn’t be sure how to pronounce it anyway, may as well go with the French pronunciation. But for well-established place names, I agree with you that it causes confusion to try to change the name to “conform” in some way. [Previous page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309.md?page=3) [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-changed-the-pronunciation-of-niger/316309.md?page=5)