# Who climbed... and who didn't? **URL:** \ **Category:** Factual Questions\ **Created:** [February 23, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455 "2005-02-23T01:43:30Z")\ **Posts on this page:** 20\ **Page:** 1
**Author:** ![Pork\_Pie\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58f4c7/32.png) [@Pork\_Pie\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Pie_Hat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 1:43am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/1 "2005-02-23T01:43:30Z")
History is full of names of people who climbed the Everest. There are also the names of people who tried, but failed. My question is how can we know for sure? I bet this question has already been made, but believe me, I searched this forum. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/2 "2005-02-23T01:53:10Z")
Because the people who failed usually returned to tell their failure, so probably weren’t lying. Those who suceeded brought photographs. George Mallory (famous for the “Because it’s there” comment) is a special case. He vanished on the slope. They found his corpse in 1999, and IIRC from the location it doesn’t seem likely he made it to the top, but there is no conclusive proof either way. ---
**Author:** ![Reeder](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/r/c6cbf5/32.png) [@Reeder](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Reeder)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 1:53am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/3 "2005-02-23T01:53:49Z")
[http://www.everesthistory.com/everestsummits/summitsbyyear.htm](http://www.everesthistory.com/everestsummits/summitsbyyear.htm) ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Pie\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58f4c7/32.png) [@Pork\_Pie\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Pie_Hat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 1:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/4 "2005-02-23T01:56:15Z")
LOL, no, what I mean is how can we tell for sure they actually did it when there’s no one there to see them. Thanks. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Pie\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58f4c7/32.png) [@Pork\_Pie\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Pie_Hat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 1:58am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/5 "2005-02-23T01:58:19Z")
Also, I said Everest just as an example. ---
**Author:** ![Pork\_Pie\_Hat](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/58f4c7/32.png) [@Pork\_Pie\_Hat](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Pork_Pie_Hat)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 1:59am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/6 "2005-02-23T01:59:22Z")
Oh, my, I missed RChuck’s reply! Sorry, I’m just a newbie! ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:15am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/7 "2005-02-23T02:15:57Z")
> [@RealityChuck](#): > > Because the people who failed usually returned to tell their failure, so probably weren’t lying. Those who suceeded brought photographs. > > George Mallory (famous for the “Because it’s there” comment) is a special case. He vanished on the slope. They found his corpse in 1999, and IIRC from the location it doesn’t seem likely he made it to the top, but there is no conclusive proof either way. There was a documentary, maybe on the _History Channel_, about finding Mallory’s body. It seems like it was in a veritable collection area for bodies. As I recall the expedition to find Mallory found several others in the same general vicinity. ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:20am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/8 "2005-02-23T02:20:43Z")
I heard the whole thing was made up, and that no one has ever climbed Everest. Supposedly, the photographs were taken in a studio in Hollywood. If you look closely, you’ll see the shadows are wrong. ---
**Author:** ![Exapno\_Mapcase](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/exapno_mapcase/32/1051_2.png) [@Exapno\_Mapcase](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Exapno_Mapcase)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 2:56am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/9 "2005-02-23T02:56:54Z")
It’s the same set they’re using for all the mudslides on the news these days. Kerry Conran’s been directing them. ---
**Author:** ![Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/s/c77e96/32.png) [@Speaker\_for\_the\_Dead](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Speaker_for_the_Dead)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:05am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/10 "2005-02-23T03:05:31Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I heard the whole thing was made up, and that no one has ever climbed Everest. Supposedly, the photographs were taken in a studio in Hollywood. If you look closely, you’ll see the shadows are wrong. The flag’s standing up with no wind, to boot. Lazy film-makers. ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:48am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/11 "2005-02-23T03:48:31Z")
**Johnny L.A.** > [@](#): > > I heard the whole thing was made up, and that no one has ever climbed Everest. Supposedly, the photographs were taken in a studio in Hollywood. If you look closely, you’ll see the shadows are wrong. Besides the Everest hoax, and the July, 1969 Moon landing hoax, let’s not forget the **Margaret Mitchell “Gone With The Wind” hoax**. Studio executives loved her story so much they thought it was about an actual war !! So, Ms Mitchell played along with the executives and wanted the filming to depict the … ahem … “actual” battles. By the time the execs found out about the truth, it was much too late to do anything about it except to rewrite history. History textbooks had entire chapters devoted to this fictitious war. A great many people across the USA were paid to do re-enactments of all the major “battles”. The studio must have shelled out a bundle of money because I bet most of you think the American Civil War was for real don’t you? ---
**Author:** ![David\_Simmons](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/d/9de053/32.png) [@David\_Simmons](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/David_Simmons)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:02am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/12 "2005-02-23T04:02:35Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Johnny L.A.** > Besides the Everest hoax, and the July, 1969 Moon landing hoax, let’s not forget the **Margaret Mitchell “Gone With The Wind” hoax**. Studio executives loved her story so much they thought it was about an actual war !! So, Ms Mitchell played along with the executives and wanted the filming to depict the … ahem … “actual” battles. By the time the execs found out about the truth, it was much too late to do anything about it except to rewrite history. History textbooks had entire chapters devoted to this fictitious war. A great many people across the USA were paid to do re-enactments of all the major “battles”. The studio must have shelled out a bundle of money because I bet most of you think the American Civil War was for real don’t you? Even the Treasury Dept. and Congress were in on the Civil War hoax since millions of dollars in soldiers and widows pensions were paid out. I actually saw one of the checks. I think it was all John Kerry and the Democrat’s doing. ---
**Author:** ![Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/ccd318/32.png) [@Carnac\_the\_Magnificent](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Carnac_the_Magnificent)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 4:36am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/13 "2005-02-23T04:36:25Z")
It’s been rumored for years that the Chinese fabricated their first summit of Everest, but recent evidence suggests they actually made it. ---
**Author:** ![cornflakes](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/9d8465/32.png) [@cornflakes](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/cornflakes)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 5:08am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/14 "2005-02-23T05:08:27Z")
> [@Carnac the Magnificent!](#): > > It’s been rumored for years that the Chinese fabricated their first summit of Everest, but recent evidence suggests they actually made it. But it was cheaply made and most broke shortly after you bought them. The ones that they make these days are better-made, and they may exceed the quality of Western ascents in the years to come. ---
**Author:** ![Princhester](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/3e96dc/32.png) [@Princhester](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Princhester)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 6:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/15 "2005-02-23T06:35:34Z")
> [@wolf\_meister](#): > > **Johnny L.A.** > Besides the Everest hoax, and the July, 1969 Moon landing hoax, let’s not forget the **Margaret Mitchell “Gone With The Wind” hoax**. Studio executives loved her story so much they thought it was about an actual war !! So, Ms Mitchell played along with the executives and wanted the filming to depict the … ahem … “actual” battles. By the time the execs found out about the truth, it was much too late to do anything about it except to rewrite history. History textbooks had entire chapters devoted to this fictitious war. A great many people across the USA were paid to do re-enactments of all the major “battles”. The studio must have shelled out a bundle of money because I bet most of you think the American Civil War was for real don’t you? Well you’ve got the beginning right. See, it started out as fictitious, with enactments of battle etc. But then some people didn’t realise it was play acting, and started shooting with real guns and the rest is history. Then those who were in on it had to start making up stuff about slavery and other “reasons” for the war, in order to justify the whole SNAFU. ---
**Author:** ![Cat\_Jones](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/c/96bed5/32.png) [@Cat\_Jones](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Cat_Jones)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 9:35am UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/16 "2005-02-23T09:35:10Z")
First of all aplogoes for the lack of cites and specific names - I’m at work (so shouldn’t really be doping!) and relying on my memory rather than taking the time to check facts on the net. Anyway to answer the OP, there’s so much money at stake in mountaineering these days that ‘proof’, usually photographic, of making it to a summit - any summit is required. In the good old days all it took was your word. In addition, these days the more well known peaks are so crowded that you have plenty of possible witnesses. IIRC correctly in the 80s there was the case of a Polish (I think) climber who claimed a remarkable solo ascent but didn’t take any photos - there was a lot of doubt as to the veracity of his claim and the general feeling amongst climbers was that he was stupid not to have taken a camera. (It could have had something to do with the ‘race’ with the Italian Reinhold Messner to climb all 8000m peaks.) I think there was another story about someone trying to back up a claim with a photo showing the mountain they had claimed to climb as a distant peak in the background - “Hey all you snowy himalayan peaks look the same to us climbin’ folk!” :smack: As I said, I’m at work as don’t have the book to hand to name names but there are a couple of cases of 19th century explorers who claimed either to have scaled mount McKinley (Denali ?) or made it to the North Pole and were taken at their word although subsequently there was a lot of doubt (unrealistic timing, lack of seal blubber accidentally smeared on notebook pages that sort of thing). I think the search goes on for Mallory’s kodak camera in the hope that it may contain more clues - ie were he and Irving still on the way up or the way down after a successful summit bid when they fell ? BTW You mean Atlanta didn’t burn ??? ---
**Author:** ![wolf\_meister](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/wolf_meister/32/15202_2.png) [@wolf\_meister](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/wolf_meister)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:12pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/17 "2005-02-23T15:12:35Z")
**Cat Jones** As far as Mt Mckinley (aka Denali) is concerned, you are probably thinking of the Sourdough Party which climbed the mountain in 1910 but this was not confirmed until the second ascent in 1913. [http://www.denalisummertimes.com/mckinley.html](http://www.denalisummertimes.com/mckinley.html) ---
**Author:** ![Johnny\_L.A](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/johnny_l.a/32/1084_2.png) [@Johnny\_L.A](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Johnny_L.A)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:37pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/18 "2005-02-23T15:37:45Z")
I just wanted to say that I’ve always wanted a pork pie hat. It will go great with my car, when it’s finally restored. ---
**Author:** ![RealityChuck](https://sea3.discourse-cdn.com/straightdope/user_avatar/boards.straightdope.com/realitychuck/32/195_2.png) [@RealityChuck](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/RealityChuck)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:40pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/19 "2005-02-23T15:40:33Z")
More likely, it was the Fredrick Cook expedition of 1906. Cook took photos standing on a mountain, but they have been exposed as frauds. The Sourdough Party climbed the mountain partly to show that Cook was lying. Cook also claimed to get to the North Pole, but that claim has also been debunked, though there is also serious doubt as to whether Peary actually made it to the pole, either. ---
**Author:** ![Padeye](https://avatars.discourse-cdn.com/v4/letter/p/a9a28c/32.png) [@Padeye](https://boards.straightdope.com/u/Padeye)\ **Post date:** [February 23, 2005, 3:48pm UTC](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455/20 "2005-02-23T15:48:41Z")
> [@Johnny L.A.](#): > > I heard the whole thing was made up… Buzz Aldrin and Sir Edmund will be along shortly to kick your ass. 😃 [Next page](https://boards.straightdope.com/t/who-climbed-and-who-didnt/291455.md?page=2)